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Old 09-11-2018, 02:42 PM
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pikergolf pikergolf is offline
 
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Default Scope Failure?

Went to the range yesterday to check the zero on my coyote rifle. First shot was about 2 inches high and right. Next shot I could not see, fired another nothing, thinking they must be in the black, fired another to get a group and then went and checked my target printed of a 7X11 sheet. Nothing, never hit the paper again. Went back to the bench and dug out a large target from the garbage can. Stapled it up and then put my smaller target over the holes in the large paper. Fired 4 more shots, my group is about 8 inches.

This rifle is a consistent 3/4" group rifle, so took it home and took the scope off today. All the screws were tight on the mount as well as the base, the action screws were tight. I have never had a scope fail, but cannot see what else it could be? I mounted another scope just now and will hit the range in the AM.

Is there anything else I should be considering?
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Old 09-11-2018, 02:51 PM
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Twisted Canuck Twisted Canuck is offline
 
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How does your Crown look? I had a rifle that was a good 1" shooter suddenly open to 5" after a friend borrowed it. He doesn't know what happened, but there was what looked like a gouge on crown, like somebody put a cold chisel to it and gave it a rap. Had it re-crowned and back n business. Just a thought...but it could very well be scope too.
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Old 09-11-2018, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck View Post
How does your Crown look? I had a rifle that was a good 1" shooter suddenly open to 5" after a friend borrowed it. He doesn't know what happened, but there was what looked like a gouge on crown, like somebody put a cold chisel to it and gave it a rap. Had it re-crowned and back n business. Just a thought...but it could very well be scope too.
Just had a look, it looks fine.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:43 PM
SakoShooter SakoShooter is offline
 
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Yes, I had the cheap chinese scope on my first rifle, a Ruger m77 mkII fail in it's second hunting season. Missed the first two deer I shot at, after the second one thougt "that can't be me" and sure enough....the zero was moving all over the place.

I'm not sure what kind of scope you are dealing with, but that was a roughly $50 scope of indeterminate make that was all I could afford at the age of 17 after splurging on a rifle.

I upgraded to a Bushnell Elite for less than $300 and it served me until I sold that rifle actually, and I've rarely spent less than $400 on a scope since.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:44 PM
Powder monkey Powder monkey is offline
 
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Lots of variables here. If it's all tight that's good. Last time it was cleaned well?What kind of scope?What caliber?
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:47 PM
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Scope is a Zeiss Conquest 3X9, rifle is a Savage model 16 in .243. Rifle has about a dozen rounds through it since it's last cleaning.
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Old 09-11-2018, 04:19 PM
Ebrand Ebrand is offline
 
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Default Barrel touching the stock?

Or copper fouled?

Bizarre for Zeiss to foul up...
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Old 09-11-2018, 04:22 PM
Powder monkey Powder monkey is offline
 
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Yeah that's weird. I'm not up on the Zeiss lineup but can't really see it being the scope with a cartridge like the .243 win.
However, you never know.
Do you have an idea how many rounds through the tube?
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Old 09-11-2018, 04:34 PM
duceman duceman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebrand View Post
Or copper fouled?

Bizarre for Zeiss to foul up...
laughing. cheap scope riding on a name. ya'll can bash away; but loads of better scopes out there for less $$$
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Old 09-11-2018, 04:45 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is online now
 
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I had a Leupold start scattering shots ... not missing a target but opening groups ... about a two week turnaround at Korth and it was good to go again.
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Old 09-11-2018, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder monkey View Post
Yeah that's weird. I'm not up on the Zeiss lineup but can't really see it being the scope with a cartridge like the .243 win.
However, you never know.
Do you have an idea how many rounds through the tube?
I would guess about three hundred rounds.
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:00 PM
SakoShooter SakoShooter is offline
 
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While the only scope I have had die was a cheapo that I was lucky to get a year out of...that doesn't mean decent scopes can't bite the bullet (hah) as well.

In my instance, rifle was no longer zeroed....tried to re-zero....couldn't as the reticle seemed to adjust with a mind of it's own....bought a better scope. As I recall, I didn't really try to group with it, it was out of zero and I couldn't get it back to zero.

I'm guessing that Zeiss will stand behind the scope you have, I would check that everything is mounted securely, and try to re-zero at 50 yards or so. If it's doesn't track adjustments as it should, you know for certain that the scope is broken and you can contact the Zeiss warranty department.

Last edited by SakoShooter; 09-11-2018 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:38 PM
Powder monkey Powder monkey is offline
 
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If you have jb I would try it first. If that don't work, probably the scope. A few hundred rounds isn't much unless you were driving it hot in something like gopher shooting.But still it's weird. Good luck.
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:13 PM
Don_Parsons Don_Parsons is offline
 
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I guess you'll find out tomorrow PG.

I checked my action screws the other day on my rifle just to make sure, that and the bedding compound.

It dosen't take much to pitch the bullets off target it seems.

Keep us up to date on what you find out, one of the fellows at the range had a optic scope fail,,, a quick change of scope and the issue was sorted.
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:38 PM
vic1 vic1 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebrand View Post
Or copper fouled?

Bizarre for Zeiss to foul up...
X2 on copper fouled. Get some good copper cleaner.
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:44 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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Action screws all tight?
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:19 PM
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I had a Leopold scope do that on a 223. It happens .

Hopefully warranty will be as easy to deal with as Leopold is and as quick of turnaround to get back.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:38 PM
SakoShooter SakoShooter is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic1 View Post
X2 on copper fouled. Get some good copper cleaner.
Has anyone had copper fouling so bad that suddenly you're not even on paper? Not saying it isn't the case, and I'm too anal to ever test it for myself...just seems a bit unlikely to me.
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:04 AM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakoShooter View Post
Has anyone had copper fouling so bad that suddenly you're not even on paper? Not saying it isn't the case, and I'm too anal to ever test it for myself...just seems a bit unlikely to me.
Canít imagine it,no way it goes from .75MOA to 8MOA overnight from copper fouling.....plus the rifle only has 300-ish rounds through it,lots of shooters in the copper equilibrium camp shoot far more rounds then that without ever scrubbing.
Iím guessing the OPís first instincts are correct,probably an internal problem with the erector assembly if everything else is tight......or a REALLY REALLY bad batch of ammo?
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:17 AM
Beeman3 Beeman3 is offline
 
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Is the rifle bedded? I had a similar problem with my 300 RUM. Went to tweak my 200 yd zero and all of a sudden I was completely off target. It just happened to be coincidence as it turned out to be a bedding issue. Corrected the bedding and the gun went back to half MOA. I dropped the barreled action into another stock and it shot great, so that's how I figured out it was the bedding.
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Old 09-12-2018, 06:06 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakoShooter View Post
Has anyone had copper fouling so bad that suddenly you're not even on paper? Not saying it isn't the case, and I'm too anal to ever test it for myself...just seems a bit unlikely to me.
Never seen that happen. Groups open up progressively, but not a sudden huge change in POI.
.
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Old 09-12-2018, 06:25 AM
SakoShooter SakoShooter is offline
 
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Occam's Razor. Ten bucks says it's the scope.
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  #23  
Old 09-12-2018, 08:13 AM
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Well I went to the range this AM. Key fob didn't work so I could not get in. If I cannot get in later today I won't get in till next week, the range is shut down for four days starting tomorrow. Thank you all for your thoughts, will keep you posted.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:12 AM
glen moa glen moa is offline
 
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One thing I do is take another gun with me to see how tight Iím shooting. Then I take extra scopes and switch them at the range.
I just put a scope on a 22 for testing. Itís easier and cheaper to test on.
Good luck.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:15 AM
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So far I have had 2 scopes fail, 1 Bushnell Elite and one Vortex Diamondback. The Bushnell went to the factory twice for repairs but I gave up once it failed the third time and was told I would have to send it in the be repaired as they would not replace it. Wounded a deer at 40 yards when I discovered this, at Phoenix my shots seemed to be walking 4 - 8 inches at 37 yards with each shot. Just threw it in the garbage and sold off all my other Bushnell products. The Diamondback most likely got damaged in transport (soft case, pouring raining and a very quick pack up do not mix) and I have not tried the warranty yet.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:37 AM
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Groundhogger Groundhogger is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebrand View Post
Or copper fouled?

Bizarre for Zeiss to foul up...
^wondering the same. Honestly, getting some unusually wonky results from my .223 last time out, and it wears the nicest scope I've ever owned. (Sightron SIII) I assumed it could be copper fouling so I worked on that..waiting to re-test. In my case, groups moved from a reliable 1/2 MOA to about 1-1/4"...so not nearly as dramatic. I'm curious to retest though. Not a high mileage gun, and I don't think I've ever let the barrel get hot.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:47 AM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebrand View Post
Or copper fouled?

Bizarre for Zeiss to foul up...
Might be out of the ordinary but I wouldnít go so far as to say bizarre.
Sure,Zeiss has a rep as good quality optics,but even far tougher/tried and tested/battle proven optics are not immune to failure,they are after all at the end of the day fine precision instruments with tiny moving internal parts.....anything could happen.
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:26 AM
260 Rem 260 Rem is online now
 
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I think the early sign of copper fouling is the occasional unexplained flier ... the fliers eventually becoming the norm. I have never personally tracked the effect of progressive fouling but I suspect groups do not fall off dramatically and I think it would take a lot of fouling to move a consistent 1/2 MOA shooter up to 1 MOA ... but at some point, it will happen.
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:42 AM
West O'5 West O'5 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
I think the early sign of copper fouling is the occasional unexplained flier ... the fliers eventually becoming the norm. I have never personally tracked the effect of progressive fouling but I suspect groups do not fall off dramatically and I think it would take a lot of fouling to move a consistent 1/2 MOA shooter up to 1 MOA ... but at some point, it will happen.
Eggzakly!!
Copper fouling would be subtle and incremental,and were not talking about a shift from .5 to 1MOA,this is a sub moa rifle going from .75 to 8.0 MOA!!
If thatís copper fouling then thatís in the realm of full on barrel obstruction,haha

Iím with SakoShooter,my money is on scope internals.
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
I think the early sign of copper fouling is the occasional unexplained flier ... the fliers eventually becoming the norm. I have never personally tracked the effect of progressive fouling but I suspect groups do not fall off dramatically and I think it would take a lot of fouling to move a consistent 1/2 MOA shooter up to 1 MOA ... but at some point, it will happen.
Great points. In my case, my .223 is a varmint gun..only range time/punching paper is during load tests, or in the spring to check zero. Everything checked out there. After a few outings (5-10 shots per, rarely ever a shot more frequent than 10 minutes apart) I had a few hits that made successful contact, just didn't land exactly where I was aiming. I hit the range, and only then discovered I couldn't get it down around 1/2" reliably.
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