Mule deer draws delayed

[KyleSS]

before everyone gets their torches and their pitch forks, the allocation numbers for outfitters were not increased. They allocations are dealt with on a 5 year basis and are decided on by SMA not WMU. A SMA is a collection of WMU's

The outfitters are in the middle of the 5 year period, so the allocation numbers were not increased.

I understand that the numbers look like they were increased, but the over all allocations for the 5 year period remain unchanged

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Don’t forget the unregulated hunters can just go in anytime they please and take a bunch of animals. Will have an impact on draw times for the common folk in the future. The new Métis rules don’t help either.

With present political positions and media attention any thoughts of seeing changes regarding FNs harvest is not going to happen. I think most hunters would like to see harvest reports and some co operation so there can be more reliable management at the minimum. Right now we can only speculate on this issue

But we will see no changes until the views regarding amongst Canada’s leaders change

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by shawn

Everyone should be taking a look at those numbers. A brief look over the moose numbers and I can see what a lot of zones take so long to get drawn, the allocations are way over the 10% number we are fed. I wish I could say I was surprised that the common working man was getting screwed but I am not. It’s absolutely disgusting to be honest.

100% agree!
I also was always under the understanding that outfitter allocations were to be maintained as close to 10% of the resident draw tags as possible.

% of total tags given to outfitters for this year in zones I have moose hunted in the past-26%, 34%, 200% and 8%.
Besides the last one, a far cry from 10%. A few of the 400's moose outfitter allocations are over double the resident tags for this year, unbelievable!!

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by KyleSS

before everyone gets their torches and their pitch forks, the allocation numbers for outfitters were not increased. They allocations are dealt with on a 5 year basis and are decided on by SMA not WMU. A SMA is a collection of WMU's

The outfitters are in the middle of the 5 year period, so the allocation numbers were not increased.

I understand that the numbers look like they were increased, but the over all allocations for the 5 year period remain unchanged

I'm curious how that would change the resident/outfitter tags % awarded for this fall in the links I provided.
Please show us the documents/facts that support this Kyle.
I'd like to see the whole picture if that's the case, thanks.

[SouthWestRanger]

Originally Posted by KyleSS

before everyone gets their torches and their pitch forks, the allocation numbers for outfitters were not increased. They allocations are dealt with on a 5 year basis and are decided on by SMA not WMU. A SMA is a collection of WMU's

The outfitters are in the middle of the 5 year period, so the allocation numbers were not increased.

I understand that the numbers look like they were increased, but the over all allocations for the 5 year period remain unchanged

I don’t believe it to be the increase that surprises a lot of people, at least for me I’m a little shocked by the allocations in general, lots look reasonable, some not so much. I appreciate the info though, definitely important to take SMAs and the allocations being dealt on a 5 year basis into consideration.

[marky_mark]

Since the border probably wont be open before this hunting season
Its good to know that we can buy tags if we arent selected

If they ever release the draw results

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Since the border probably wont be open before this hunting season
Its good to know that we can buy tags if we arent selected

If they ever release the draw results

Or they could just issue residents more tags , since the outfitters can't fill them.

[marky_mark]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/unva...ECNlAeAB9nTxTA

[DiabeticKripple]

Wainwright gets released still though? It’s under the WT portion of AB relm

[Epicure]

They should update the key dates page. It does not mention Mule deer being released with the antelope.

https://www.albertarelm.com/cust.keydates.page

[shawn]

Anyone been waiting over 11 years to draw a 410 sheep tag? 25 tags for the tax paying citizens who pour their hearts and souls into this province and 11 for the foreigners and they can hunt them every year to boot. Looks like another round of letters to Jason Nixon, but I am sure as usual he won’t have the decency to reply, because him and Jason are too busy getting drunk in the sky palace our dime. As much as I hated Notely at least she would always respond to my complaints.

[buckman]

Mule deer in Alberta are highly sought after by non resident hunters. The numbers of large mature bucks is probably second in the Americas after Saskatchewan.

In the area I spend some time(132) I have seen a decline in large bucks.Cant say what the cause is, but probably a combination of hunting,poaching,unregulated harvest and CWD.

If the delay is so they can increase the regulated harvest it will only make the situation worse.

Alberta hunters seem to come last on the list of fairness for opportunity.

Some non residents hunt here every year while we wait out our time,they should be put on the priority system for Mule deer and Elk and have to wait like us.

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Wainwright gets released still though? It’s under the WT portion of AB relm

I’m guessing that’s because it’s a resident only hunt with no outfitter allocations allowed in there?

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Since the border probably wont be open before this hunting season
Its good to know that we can buy tags if we arent selected

If they ever release the draw results

Buy tags or buy a guided hunt?

If buying just a tag I might consider it myself

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Buy tags or buy a guided hunt?

If buying just a tag I might consider it myself

Me too!

[Big Grey Wolf]

Alberta Guberment would rather sell one of the Queens cattle to an American for $20,000 than to an Albertan for $500. It is all economics.

[whitetail Junkie]

P8 for mule deer buck and finally applied this year...dad only applied for trophy antelope p11...looks like we find out the same day now.glad I applied this year because if they nuke em a 150" might be a big one next year...also applied for mule doe in same wmu...going to buy the tag but cut it on the xmas tree if they nuke em.

[Phil McCracken]

Originally Posted by buckman

Mule deer in Alberta are highly sought after by non resident hunters. The numbers of large mature bucks is probably second in the Americas after Saskatchewan.

In the area I spend some time(132) I have seen a decline in large bucks.Cant say what the cause is, but probably a combination of hunting,poaching,unregulated harvest and CWD.

If the delay is so they can increase the regulated harvest it will only make the situation worse.

Alberta hunters seem to come last on the list of fairness for opportunity.

Some non residents hunt here every year while we wait out our time,they should be put on the priority system for Mule deer and Elk and have to wait like us.

Problem with that is that it makes sense...

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by 7magtime

Looks like some substantial outfitter allocation increases for some animals/WMU’s this fall; see below for Elk, Moose, WT and Sheep.
I have a feeling residents will be losing many draw tags again so these outfitter allocations could be increased. Interesting that Mule deer outfitter allocations for this fall were not available yet…..
If this is the reason that all Alberta resident Mule Deer hunters have to wait until August 12th for their results, there is going to be some backlash IMO...

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/d991...eason-2021.pdf

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/de23...eason-2021.pdf

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/1225...eason-2021.pdf

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/8569...eason-2021.pdf

That is bull of it is completely true, in many of the mountain zones outfitters have more tags than residents. I won’t even start to point out that on the private land zones this will lead to more land being inaccessible to residents as somehow some landowners will suddenly close access and have outfitters on the land and something new will appear in their yard 🤔

[DRhunter]

Originally Posted by slough shark

That is bull of it is completely true, in many of the mountain zones outfitters have more tags than residents. I won’t even start to point out that on the private land zones this will lead to more land being inaccessible to residents as somehow some landowners will suddenly close access and have outfitters on the land and something new will appear in their yard 🤔

That was my initial reaction as well. One example that I was looking at was WMU 410 Sheep (and not that I put in for this draw). There are 25 resident tags allowed, 8 tags allocated to outfitters each year and then in 2021 there is the "Covid" tags allocated to an outfitter of 11.

When I first looked, I thought that maybe the outfitter(s) were getting 19 tags (8+11) compared to the 25 resident tags and was outraged. Now looking at it, I wonder if the data is saying that in a normal year the outfitter(s) get 8 tags and in 2021 total outfitters tags will be 11 (8 normal tags plus 3 additional "Covid" tags).

Now, even at 8 tags in a normal year out of total of 33 tags is 24% and significantly above the "10%" cap supposedly allowed for outfitters tags compared to residents; so at 11 outfitters tags we would be over 30%... but I guess that is probably an argument for a different thread.

DR

[slough shark]

Let’s use wmu 429 as an example, residents are given 3 early season moose tags this year and 3 late season tags. outfitters are give 8 bow and 3 rut tags as opposed to 4 and 2 respectively (which is to begin with outrageous as the outfitters have as many tags as residents on a normal year this year it is almost double…


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[J.B.]

Originally Posted by bonedogg

I never realized that there was 20 outfitter tags for antlered elk in 108.........damn

The way I read the chart those are the resident tags?
Could be wrong...

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by KyleSS

before everyone gets their torches and their pitch forks, the allocation numbers for outfitters were not increased. They allocations are dealt with on a 5 year basis and are decided on by SMA not WMU. A SMA is a collection of WMU's

The outfitters are in the middle of the 5 year period, so the allocation numbers were not increased.

I understand that the numbers look like they were increased, but the over all allocations for the 5 year period remain unchanged

Unless there has been an unpublicized amendment to the Outfitter agreement, which certainly could happen in this age of AGPAC and government secret behind the door deals with the outfitters ( ie allowing Residents to use outfitter tags)

the outfitter allocation is NOT based on a five year total that can be used as the outfitter desires, or as the government desires.

The Single Year maximum allocations is established, and this number is agreed to for five years.

Perhaps you are confusing the BC outfitter agreement with Alberta's, which does work from a multi year total.


What we are seeing here is what the demise of AGMAG and the creation of AGPAC in action. Complete secrecy and zero public consultation.
Our government had stolen out wildlife, and is playing games with it based on the input of a cherry picked few.

[ksteed17]

Originally Posted by bonedogg

I never realized that there was 20 outfitter tags for antlered elk in 108.........damn

There’s not. Those are the numbers for resident hunters in the different seasons. If you look at the column for outfitters there are none listed.

[fatboyz]

From what I understand is that the outfitters are going to be allowed to take last years allocations they didn't use because of Covid and carry them forward to be used over the next 5 yrs. This is the "Covid" allocations shown in the tables. Chatted with a moose outfitter from the 400 zones and that's what he said, said he would be busy the next few yrs with the extra hunts.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fatboyz

From what I understand is that the outfitters are going to be allowed to take last years allocations they didn't use because of Covid and carry them forward to be used over the next 5 yrs. This is the "Covid" allocations shown in the tables. Chatted with a moose outfitter from the 400 zones and that's what he said, said he would be busy the next few yrs with the extra hunts.

So they will reduce resident tag numbers to compensate for those additional tags?

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So they will reduce resident tag numbers to compensate for those additional tags?

If they don’t in say many of the 400 zones the age structure of the moose population will crash. In several zones the outfitters quota for this year is equal or greater than the quota for everyone last year. They were already bordering on selling out the ability of albertans to hunt the mountains in favour of the outfitters, now it’s sealing the deal.

[fatboyz]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So they will reduce resident tag numbers to compensate for those additional tags?

No change to resident permit numbers. They just get to use up last years quota over the next 5 years on top of their regular quota.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by slough shark

If they don’t in say many of the 400 zones the age structure of the moose population will crash. In several zones the outfitters quota for this year is equal or greater than the quota for everyone last year. They were already bordering on selling out the ability of albertans to hunt the mountains in favour of the outfitters, now it’s sealing the deal.

And if the border stays closed and the outfitters shoot zero
Then what happens?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fatboyz

No change to resident permit numbers. They just get to use up last years quota over the next 5 years on top of their regular quota.

That would mean an increased harvest, can the population sustain that?