Crippled Deer

[Salavee]

I have just read the Alberta Deer Management Plan from several years ago that was posted by another member. I can only hope that their estimates were totally out of proportion. It they are accurate, we have a real problem.

"
Crippling losses and illegal harvest._

"Crippling losses from hunting have not been quantified in Alberta although the Fish and Wildlife Division(1989) reported that a survey of the literature showed average losses of 23 and 27 percent of reported kill in either sex or buck-only seasons, respectively. If similar rates occur in Alberta, approximately 6000 whit-tailed deer were lost to crippling in 1990.
The size of the illegal harvest of white-tailed deer has not been directly measured in Alberta; a violation-simulation study by Boxall and Smith (1987) indicated that the illegal kill may be about half the legal harvest of deer taken by legal licensed recreational hunters. "

By definition, this rendering does not take in to account the number of deer killed or maimed by automobiles or those taken by natural predation.

Holy smokes .. about 25 % .. or one out of every four legal shots that hits a deer results in a cripple. Can't be right ..or is it ?

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Salavee

I have just read the Alberta Deer Management Plan from several years ago that was posted by another member. I can only hope that their estimates were totally out of proportion. It they are accurate, we have a real problem.

"
Crippling losses and illegal harvest._

"Crippling losses from hunting have not been quantified in Alberta although the Fish and Wildlife Division(1989) reported that a survey of the literature showed average losses of 23 and 27 percent of reported kill in either sex or buck-only seasons, respectively. If similar rates occur in Alberta, approximately 6000 whit-tailed deer were lost to crippling in 1990.
The size of the illegal harvest of white-tailed deer has not been directly measured in Alberta; a violation-simulation study by Boxall and Smith (1987) indicated that the illegal kill may be about half the legal harvest of deer taken by legal licensed recreational hunters. "

By definition, this rendering does not take in to account the number of deer killed or maimed by automobiles or those taken by natural predation.

Holy smokes .. about 25 % .. or one out of every four legal shots that hits a deer results in a cripple. Can't be right ..or is it ?

If you listen to some “hunters” who say they “miss” X number of deer before they fill a tag it becomes less surprising. If you miss more then you recover you need to check your rifle or re think your personal limitations and stick within them

Or watch the road hunters in busy areas who shoot at deer and call it a miss because it didn’t fall over right away. Too lazy to walk over and check for sign before confirming a miss

These are two pet peeves of mine and habits that make me not go hunting with someone or stop hunting with them. I have a friend right now who has basically been given an intervention being dragged to the range do to his shooting and shot selection. If that doesn’t do it myself and others I know will not hunt with him anymore

No one is perfect but some need to re think their ethnics

[patrol1957]

watch the road hunters in busy areas who shoot at deer and call it a miss because it didn’t fall over right away. Too lazy to walk over and check for sign before confirming a miss

I have never watched a "Road hunter"but I would have to say it pertains to not only road hunters there are a lot of people that are too lazy to walk over and check for sign before confirming a miss.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by patrol1957

I have never watched a "Road hunter"but I would have to say it pertains to not only road hunters there are a lot of people that are too lazy to walk over and check for sign before confirming a miss.

True

Hunting public land usually the only hunters I cross paths with are traveling between stand locations or if I take a mid day warm up are road hunters so this is when I whiteness it.

[3blade]

Seriously guys...we have unregulated hunting year round and bios that love wolves/lions/gbears...and THIS is what will hurt the deer herds??

But no, I dont think thats accurate, I would guess a fair bit of that “literature” comes from places where deer drives are more common, thus more running shots, and more cripples.

[Stinky Buffalo]

For sure, 3Blade has a good point. There are so many other factors here.

Not saying that the gun 'n run scenario doesn't happen, I know it does.

[Smoky buck]

Regardless the numbers if they are high are low I think all can agree taking time to be accurate with your weapon, stick within your honest skill level when shooting and follow up inspection should be done

If we all take the time to do theses things it will decrease the chance of lost game plain and simple. This is really a matter of respect for the animals we hunt and just good ethical practices

[patrol1957]

Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo

For sure, 3Blade has a good point. There are so many other factors here.

Not saying that the gun 'n run scenario doesn't happen, I know it does.

course it dose it will never stop know one can dispute that ever ,but it doesn't only pertain to road hunters as some may think

[Duke74]

I hate those ‘hunters’ that don’t follow up on their shot. Even if you don’t see blood right away, follow the tracks for a ways. They don’t always start dropping blood as soon as they are hit.

[patrol1957]

Originally Posted by Duke74

I hate those ‘hunters’ that don’t follow up on their shot. Even if you don’t see blood right away, follow the tracks for a ways. They don’t always start dropping blood as soon as they are hit.

Do you know a lot of these "hunters’ that don’t follow up on their shot"

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by patrol1957

Do you know a lot of these "hunters’ that don’t follow up on their shot"

Been told lots of stories from hunters I have worked with where they admit to to missing excessive numbers of deer each season. I have also have met many the different work sites o we the years that have the mentality if they don’t notice a flinch or drop they just call it a clean miss and keep going

2 years ago who was so proud he got his buck that season after missing 18 deer. Same guy believed if he didn’t notice a flinch or the deer didn’t drop it was a miss. Yes no one is perfect and bad shots/misses can happen but there comes a point human judgment is an issue.

I am very hesitant to hunt with new people with previous hunting experience till I really know them because of the numbers I have me with poor ethics. I have had way more positive experiences taking out rookies and teaching them over hunting with people with previous experience

My experience has been this way across both BC and Alberta. It’s not just those who road hunt either. I have met both trophy and meat hunters with poor ethics too

Numbers aside there is definitely those with poor ethics and without the hunting community denouncing poor ethics well promoting good ethics it won’t change. Pretending that every hunter has good ethics also just helps push issues under the rug

[patrol1957]

It’s not just those who road hunt either. I have met both trophy and meat hunters with poor ethics too

This was my point from the start its not just road hunters thank you I am out of this thread.

[Smokinyotes]

How often do you run into guys out hunting with a rifle slung over their shoulder with no bipod or shooting sticks. I never take free hand shots unless the deer is about 75 yards or less.

[Moosetalker]

Every shot should be followed up on.

I was driving back to camp for lunch and had a guy in a SUV stop get out walk to the ditch {non reg maintained rd} took a shot stood there for a couple 3 minutes I walked up { Id stopped way back when I saw his brake lights} I was actually happy enough he got out to shoot in the first place.

He said I think I missed we talked a few minutes more saying where the deer was, he said where he was camped then jumped back in his unit and drove off.

Wife was back in the truck {She'd used the opportunity to phone a friend in the area}
So bein as Cell service sucked in that area and knowing she'd be a while, I decided to take a walk as I got to where he's said the deer was I saw hair and scuff marks I followed to find the deer 20 feet away stone dead. I opened it up to cool drove to his camp and told him Hey ya didn't miss He was shocked to say the least I even went back and helped him drag it out and load it in his vehicle
He was quite chagrined and kept repeating lesson learned so all worked out well

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

How often do you run into guys out hunting with a rifle slung over their shoulder with no bipod or shooting sticks. I never take free hand shots unless the deer is about 75 yards or less.

I rarely shoot off bipods or shooting sticks. That does not mean I’m wounding or missing.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

How often do you run into guys out hunting with a rifle slung over their shoulder with no bipod or shooting sticks. I never take free hand shots unless the deer is about 75 yards or less.

I don’t carry sticks unless I’m in a blind or I am in open country. But I keep my shots close for the most part and often use a tree for a rest or take a knee or shoot prone if not in a stand. That said I can count how many shots I have taken over 150yards on one hand in almost 30years of hunting

Sticks are great under the right conditions don’t get me wrong but they are not a must. Using the most stable available position and keeping within your personal limits of those positions definitely should be considered. I have even met some who are not comfortable with some positions or sticks. My one buddy shoots well free hand but is useless from a kneeling position. This is why it is a matter of practicing different shooting styles so you know where your abilities are

It’s a matter of being honest with one’s personal skill limitations really

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo

For sure, 3Blade has a good point. There are so many other factors here.

Not saying that the gun 'n run scenario doesn't happen, I know it does.

Seems like a lot of others missed it

I’m not arguing about whether cripples happen

I’m calling BS on the original article: “literature” “simulation study” “survey” “May be...” “if”

Nothing more than a WAG, or more likely biased opinion pushing an anti-hunting agenda

[Duke74]

Originally Posted by patrol1957

Do you know a lot of these "hunters’ that don’t follow up on their shot"

Our ranch consists of over 11,000 acres. We have found numerous dead deer over the years on our land with bullet wounds. Likely, in part, to the fact that these hunters don’t have permission to hunt on our land so they shoot quickly and if the deer doesn’t drop, they assume it was a miss. Hope this cleared up any confusion, Patrol

[fishnguy]

I hunt deer exclusively in the bush. There are a few roads and trails going through it. During hunting season, there is always traffic going round and round all day (legal light) long. Hearing shots fired is obviously normal, though I wouldn’t say it’s a daily occurrence. In about 8 or so years, I have only ran into maybe 3 blood trails left by wounded animals. I also found a mulie doe that was dead with 2 entry holes, about 100-150 yards off the road. I have never found a dead deer following any of trails I ran into (I followed them all). All were deer. One was a very good size buck judging by the size of his beds.

Having said above, I very much doubt the 25% is the correct number. I would have seen many more blood trails an dead game all around. Maybe it is a more frequent occurrence in the farm land, but I have no clue.

Also to mention, every blood trail I followed to where it started and where it ended, no one but me was trying to find anything. In fact, unless my memory is playing a trick at the moment, I have only ever seen 2 people on foot: one walking a quad trail; the other walked about 75 yards in front of my trail camera set up in the opening (I was kind of shocked to see a person in the deep). That would be in 8-ish years in that area. Never saw any footprints on game trails either, except for my old ones or my cousin’s.

On the other hand, the dead mulie I found didn’t have a trail. I also know of a bull moose that was supposedly visibly hit but never found (I tried looking the next day after I found out and nada, no blood trail either that I could find). So there is definitely more to it than I see when out there.

In other areas I hunt, I only saw 1 blood trail and maybe one set of footprints in about the same period of time give or take. Lots of tire tracks though where they should and shouldn’t be.

Myself, I shot a buck a few years ago that I tracked for a few days and shot him again, recovered the next morning. That would be two shots that appeared to be well placed (I saw the entry holes on the body, but never looked at the organs because I was pretty upset about how it all went down) and I still had to come back the next morning. Almost stopped hunting after that (thanks to people here mostly who made me realise that it likely wasn’t my fault). Also shot a doe once that jumped as I pulled the trigger. She was recovered the same day after a few hours of tracking, half in the rain.

The first cow elk I shot was in a field and I didn’t see her going down, only saw the rest of them (maybe a dozen) running for cover. The filed had swathed canola on it. I went to where the elk were standing and no blood, nothing. I looked all over and could not find anything but tracks of them feeding and running. I couldn’t believe it because I had great support, took my time, etc. I knew the shot could not have been executed better than that and I heard the hit. There I was standing and staring at a swath thinking what to do next. The cows took off and joined another gang with a bull on a neighbouring field (it was October 3) where I also had permission. Time was running out. I decided to walk to the tree line where her little herd was running to before turning to the neighbouring field. Maybe she dropped some blood there? Well, I turned around and she was lying no more than 5 meters behind me. She dropped where she stood. It was a perfect shot, heart and lung. I spent 20 minutes looking for blood while walking around her and I didn’t see her. Go figure. I was also a fairly fresh hunter then, so lots of adrenalin and excitement, as well as the complete opposite feelings when it appears that things may have gone bad. If I hadn’t seen her right there and then, who knows what would have happened. Maybe I’d find her, maybe not. I would come back the next day, maybe look for birds, walk the bush like a madman, etc; maybe eventually I would assume it was a miss. Maybe harvest another cow. Then maybe the farmer would find her and blame the road hunters/poachers/who knows.

Point being, different things happen and most of us know that. But I really don’t see the 25% being close to reality. Who knows. Maybe I hunt in different settings than most. It would be interesting to take a look at the literature they are referring to.

[aulrich]

If on leash tracking dogs could be used that percentage would drop.

[pikeslayer22]

I’d believe it. With bow hunters numbers might be higher.

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by pikeslayer22

I’d believe it. With bow hunters numbers might be higher.

Troll much? That is a total crock. Wounding rates are at best equal.

[elkhunter11]

There will always be people that don’t check their rifles with their huntimg loads, people that don’t practice shooting, that shoot farther at game than they practise at, that don’t follow up after every shot, and that drive away if the animal doesn't fall immediately, because they don’t have permission.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by pikeslayer22

I’d believe it. With bow hunters numbers might be higher.

So very true,very few big game animals are lost in Europe because of this. My father shot, and fatally wounded a Red Stag and without dogs it would have been lost.

[buckman]

Fact...If you hunt long enough(especially in thick or rough country) and never loose an animal you are very fortunate.

Without snow and or blood a fatally wounded animal can conceal themselves easily,you can almost smell them before you see them.

[pikeslayer22]

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

Troll much? That is a total crock. Wounding rates are at best equal.

Not running down bow hunting just wasn’t sure if it was included in survey

[brewster29]

Originally Posted by chuck

I rarely shoot off bipods or shooting sticks. That does not mean I’m wounding or missing.

Chuck, I would bet a left handed Winchester that you get way more trigger time in various positions and longer ranges than 98% of the "hunters" being referred to. On second thought, make that 100%.