Grizzly questions..

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Definitely some interesting encounters too bad there was not more about the population numbers but can’t expect much from that time

From the number given, you can extrapolate that numbers were substantial.

Grizz

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by SnipeHunter

See page 2.

https://wildlife-species.canada.ca/s...pop_0707_e.pdf

Sounds like past numbers were relatively high along the river’s and cypress hills.

From reading that report the conclusion is that the present day prairie habitat could not sustain much of a population theses days.

Again interesting read

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I am curious does anyone know what grizzly densities in the prairie’s were roughly in the past?

When the buffalo were still here the bears were thick.

On the North Saskatchewan river east of Edmonton is a place called Grizzly Coulee. If I remember right 2 men were attacked by a grizzly there way back too.
In the first decade of the 1800's One explorer noted that he saw over 20 grizzlies in a 12 mile horse ride south of the Cochrane area.

Way back.. Just in the one year of 1871 the Hudson bay's men took in 750 unprime grizzly skins just from around the Cypress Hills. There were other traders that also took in a few hundred grizzly skins. Most of the bears were shot from the back of a horse in summer.

In 1884 a man was hunting near Stony Plain and found two grizzlies. He shot one and the other bear got him.

I'm sure there are more recent stats but they are just guesstimates. I am a firm believer that a grizzly will follow the NS river into edmonton soon. There have been more than one noted recently an hour or so west of Edmonton.

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

When the buffalo were still here the bears were thick.

On the North Saskatchewan river east of Edmonton is a place called Grizzly Coulee. If I remember right 2 men were attacked by a grizzly there way back too.
In the first decade of the 1800's One explorer noted that he saw over 20 grizzlies in a 12 mile horse ride south of the Cochrane area.

Way back.. Just in the one year of 1871 the Hudson bay's men took in 750 unprime grizzly skins just from around the Cypress Hills. There were other traders that also took in a few hundred grizzly skins. Most of the bears were shot from the back of a horse in summer.

In 1884 a man was hunting near Stony Plain and found two grizzlies. He shot one and the other bear got him.

I'm sure there are more recent stats but they are just guesstimates. I am a firm believer that a grizzly will follow the NS river into edmonton soon. There have been more than one noted recently an hour or so west of Edmonton.

Totally agree about the river valley. Apparently We get them in fish creek park quite often and they quietly get removed.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

When the buffalo were still here the bears were thick.

On the North Saskatchewan river east of Edmonton is a place called Grizzly Coulee. If I remember right 2 men were attacked by a grizzly there way back too.
In the first decade of the 1800's One explorer noted that he saw over 20 grizzlies in a 12 mile horse ride south of the Cochrane area.

Way back.. Just in the one year of 1871 the Hudson bay's men took in 750 unprime grizzly skins just from around the Cypress Hills. There were other traders that also took in a few hundred grizzly skins. Most of the bears were shot from the back of a horse in summer.

In 1884 a man was hunting near Stony Plain and found two grizzlies. He shot one and the other bear got him.

I'm sure there are more recent stats but they are just guesstimates. I am a firm believer that a grizzly will follow the NS river into edmonton soon. There have been more than one noted recently an hour or so west of Edmonton.

I don’t doubt they will expand there range following the rivers. There is likely grizzly in areas that have not been noticed yet. I found them in some interesting locations in both BC and Alberta over the years. I have a good understanding of grizzly in mountain, foothills, coast, and forest but find the thought of them in the prairies fascinating do to my lack of knowledge on them in the prairies.

I don’t have the fear or hate for grizzly some seem to have and no issues with there numbers doing well. But I would be a happy man if I could hunt them again and see no reason why there could not be draws under good management.

[Bushrat]

Would be interesting to know for sure but it wouldn't surprise me if grizzly densities in the time of the buffalo rivaled or exceeded bear densities on coastal salmon streams being the supply of buffalo to hunt and scavenge year round and in immense amounts over a huge area compared to the seasonal salmon runs on the coast. Interesting that in the journals they made note that bears in the mountains were scarcer than on the prairies.

The mention of white, yellow or lighter colored bears could possibly be a distinct subspecies adapted to prairie life and climate.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

I'm sure there are more recent stats but they are just guesstimates. I am a firm believer that a grizzly will follow the NS river into edmonton soon. There have been more than one noted recently an hour or so west of Edmonton.

Sightings around the NS river valley around Drayton and east of Drayton are becoming more and more frequent as the years go by. So yes there is no doubt they would be wandering farther down the valley towards Edmonton.

Also a dozen years or so ago there were 4 bighorn sheep hanging around river hill by the bridge over the N. Saskatchewan at Drayton for a couple weeks, then were gone not sure where they ended up, probably headed back up the valley toward the mountains where they came from.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I don’t doubt they will expand there range following the rivers. There is likely grizzly in areas that have not been noticed yet. I found them in some interesting locations in both BC and Alberta over the years. I have a good understanding of grizzly in mountain, foothills, coast, and forest but find the thought of them in the prairies fascinating do to my lack of knowledge on them in the prairies.

I don’t have the fear or hate for grizzly some seem to have and no issues with there numbers doing well. But I would be a happy man if I could hunt them again and see no reason why there could not be draws under good management.

This is the problem, they have and continue to expand their range, while nobody is educating it to the general public just how many there are or how much bigger their range is. Innocent completely ignorant people will pay the price for this.

I remember hunting just west of hwy 22 during bow season, 45 min hike up and over a ridge to a strip of trees i hung my stand in. Easy 15 years ago now, came out at dark and fresh snow was falling, came across a huge pile of fresh bear crap and fresh tracks, crossed in front of me not very long before. Longest half hour walk of my life. Protection wasn't a thought then. I know the land owners there deal with one or two a year pretty regular.

People have no idea where grizzlies really are nor how many. Everytime someone gets mauled or killed i think the families should sue the govt. Absolutely they will be wandering routinely into calgary and edmonton along the river systems. Numbers have been climbing for a long long time now, likely a couple thousand breeding pairs by now.

[MK2750]

One wandered down the Red Deer to near Penhold last year. There was a couple more the year of all the smoke 2 or 3 years ago. You really want to keep your eyes open up stream of Dickson.

[W921]

So if I have cows in an area and somebody else,hunter,hicker ,near by land owner or somebody who just doesnt like me kills the bear. Who do you think fish and game are going to go after?
How much would it cost me to prove myself innocent in court?
There are wolves there and we pack rifles. But we are not the only ones in there either. Can't keep others out.
Seriously thinking about not renting that grass again but we really need it and love the country.
I'm sure the general public values grizzlies more than us or our little cow herd. If something ever happened to that bear I'm sure fish and game would be looking to wreck somebody's life over it.
You can't get in there with a truck to live trap it either. I dont think they would anyway.
There just isn't any wilderness left in the SW. Well unless you get rid of ranchers and recreational users which seems to be what the government wants.
Its a big liability having a bear around. Sort of like having a business in Lethbridge across the street from a safe injection site.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

This is the problem, they have and continue to expand their range, while nobody is educating it to the general public just how many there are or how much bigger their range is. Innocent completely ignorant people will pay the price for this.

I remember hunting just west of hwy 22 during bow season, 45 min hike up and over a ridge to a strip of trees i hung my stand in. Easy 15 years ago now, came out at dark and fresh snow was falling, came across a huge pile of fresh bear crap and fresh tracks, crossed in front of me not very long before. Longest half hour walk of my life. Protection wasn't a thought then. I know the land owners there deal with one or two a year pretty regular.

People have no idea where grizzlies really are nor how many. Everytime someone gets mauled or killed i think the families should sue the govt. Absolutely they will be wandering routinely into calgary and edmonton along the river systems. Numbers have been climbing for a long long time now, likely a couple thousand breeding pairs by now.

People need to use there common sense and educate them selves. Sorry but I don’t agree whatsoever when it comes to blaming the government over bear conflict. Fact is black bear or grizzly both can chew on you if you don’t use your brains. Both have been around for a long time and in majority of encounters they are not an issue.

Maybe I have a different train of thought because I have spent plenty of time in areas with high bear numbers and was taught common sense regarding bears since I was a kid. Bears have just been part of being in the outdoors or opening my front door in the morning

I love to hunt bears of both species and support any hunter who wants to try it. I believe farmers should have the right to protect their livestock. If a man needs to shoot a bear in self defense I completely understand and support it

The whole boogeyman grizzly hiding behind every tree ready to eat people talk nope.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

People need to use there common sense and educate them selves. Sorry but I don’t agree whatsoever when it comes to blaming the government over bear conflict. Fact is black bear or grizzly both can chew on you if you don’t use your brains. Both have been around for a long time and in majority of encounters they are not an issue.

Maybe I have a different train of thought because I have spent plenty of time in areas with high bear numbers and was taught common sense regarding bears since I was a kid. Bears have just been part of being in the outdoors or opening my front door in the morning

I love to hunt bears of both species and support any hunter who wants to try it. I believe farmers should have the right to protect their livestock. If a man needs to shoot a bear in self defense I completely understand and support it

The whole boogeyman grizzly hiding behind every tree ready to eat people talk nope.

But you have to recognize the possibility of a bear encounter and act accordingly, the people that don't, are the ones that pay the price. Stupid doesn't cut it.

Grizz

[SnipeHunter]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

People need to use there common sense and educate them selves. Sorry but I don’t agree whatsoever when it comes to blaming the government over bear conflict. Fact is black bear or grizzly both can chew on you if you don’t use your brains. Both have been around for a long time and in majority of encounters they are not an issue.

Your comments are valid. But black bears might head for a tree if it feels threatened. Grizzlies are adapted to not need trees.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Sightings around the NS river valley around Drayton and east of Drayton are becoming more and more frequent as the years go by. So yes there is no doubt they would be wandering farther down the valley towards Edmonton.

Also a dozen years or so ago there were 4 bighorn sheep hanging around river hill by the bridge over the N. Saskatchewan at Drayton for a couple weeks, then were gone not sure where they ended up, probably headed back up the valley toward the mountains where they came from.

Back in the days of explorers the big horn sheep ranged out into the prairies along bigger river valleys as far east as the Edmonton or Red Deer areas.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

But you have to recognize the possibility of a bear encounter and act accordingly, the people that don't, are the ones that pay the price. Stupid doesn't cut it.

Grizz

We all need to take responsibility for our actions and what we do. That includes paying attention in areas with heavy vehicle traffic or being in bear county or paying attention to your footing in the high country and a million other incidents in daily life

Stupidity is never a valid excuse and

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by SnipeHunter

Your comments are valid. But black bears might head for a tree if it feels threatened. Grizzlies are adapted to not need trees.

Actually the one thing grizzly are adapt to when feeling threatened is running at speeds much faster then a black bear and cover broken terrain much better. I learned from hunting grizzly if they catch your wind they can book it or leave the area pretty easier as well. Yes there is those that will stand there ground and try to scare you off at times too.

I have had plenty of bad run ins with black bear and it’s way more likely because there are way more of them. In my opinion they are way more unpredictable and people are way more likely to be complacent with them

They both can be dangerous but majority will avoid unnecessary physical contact and resort to intimidation or flight because risking injury is risking possible death. We all know there are bad situations that happen but it’s way less likely then some are making it out to be

If grizzly were half as bad as people make them out to be I would have been dead long ago

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

People need to use there common sense and educate them selves. Sorry but I don’t agree whatsoever when it comes to blaming the government over bear conflict. Fact is black bear or grizzly both can chew on you if you don’t use your brains. Both have been around for a long time and in majority of encounters they are not an issue.

Maybe I have a different train of thought because I have spent plenty of time in areas with high bear numbers and was taught common sense regarding bears since I was a kid. Bears have just been part of being in the outdoors or opening my front door in the morning

I love to hunt bears of both species and support any hunter who wants to try it. I believe farmers should have the right to protect their livestock. If a man needs to shoot a bear in self defense I completely understand and support it

The whole boogeyman grizzly hiding behind every tree ready to eat people talk nope.

This post is just wrong. Outdoorsmen should understand that they need to be bear aware. Kids waiting for a school bus in farm country or going for a hike in the city parks shouldn't have to worry about it.

And yes it is the government's fault. Grizzlies are going generations with out a threat from humans and have absolutely no reason to be even slightly afraid of anything outside of another grizzly. Think Banff and Jasper elk with big teeth and a really bad attitude.

They were known as plain creatures as well but it wasn't only because of buffalo. They no doubt followed the herds during calving season much like they do with elk but the big hump on their shoulders comes from digging with front paws and claws. They would feed on colonies of ground squirrels and anything else unfortunate enough to be living in the ground and would flourish in rolling foot hills and prairies.

Nobody thinks the grizzly is the 'boggey man". We just don't want them boldly going back to where they once lived. There are people living there now. Hunting is an ethical and very cost effective method of controlling populations and discouraging encroachment into more populated areas. We have every right outside of Disney Land to harvest these animals and anyone that thinks differently is part of the problem.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by SnipeHunter

Your comments are valid. But black bears might head for a tree if it feels threatened. Grizzlies are adapted to not need trees.

Of course you know how to tell the difference between a Black Bear and a Grizzly ? A Black will climb the tree after you, a Grizzly will just knock it down.

Grizz

[SnipeHunter]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Actually the one thing grizzly are adapt to when feeling threatened is running at speeds much faster then a black bear and cover broken terrain much better. I learned from hunting grizzly if they catch your wind they can book it or leave the area pretty easier as well. Yes there is those that will stand there ground and try to scare you off at times too.

I have had plenty of bad run ins with black bear and it’s way more likely because there are way more of them. In my opinion they are way more unpredictable and people are way more likely to be complacent with them

They both can be dangerous but majority will avoid unnecessary physical contact and resort to intimidation or flight because risking injury is risking possible death. We all know there are bad situations that happen but it’s way less likely then some are making it out to be

If grizzly were half as bad as people make them out to be I would have been dead long ago

Thanks. Solid post.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by MK2750

This post is just wrong. Outdoorsmen should understand that they need to be bear aware. Kids waiting for a school bus in farm country or going for a hike in the city parks shouldn't have to worry about it.

And yes it is the government's fault. Grizzlies are going generations with out a threat from humans and have absolutely no reason to be even slightly afraid of anything outside of another grizzly. Think Banff and Jasper elk with big teeth and a really bad attitude.

They were known as plain creatures as well but it wasn't only because of buffalo. They no doubt followed the herds during calving season much like they do with elk but the big hump on their shoulders comes from digging with front paws and claws. They would feed on colonies of ground squirrels and anything else unfortunate enough to be living in the ground and would flourish in rolling foot hills and prairies.

Nobody thinks the grizzly is the 'boggey man". We just don't want them boldly going back to where they once lived. There are people living there now. Hunting is an ethical and very cost effective method of controlling populations and discouraging encroachment into more populated areas. We have every right outside of Disney Land to harvest these animals and anyone that thinks differently is part of the problem.

I may not be highly knowledgeable on grizzly in the prairies but I have lots of experience with the species. I was brought into a number of projects by a bio to help locate possible populations in BC and was successful. I fully understand the wide variety of foods they eat and the fact they don’t need big game numbers to sustain a population. There is probably way more grizzly presently in the foothills then is recorded and people don’t realize just how many. If you think I believe that grizzly cannot spread into the prairies you are assuming wrong. Far from Disney land views on these animals but instead have a healthy knowledge and respect for them

Read my post again I am a big supporter of hunting grizzly. I am in full support of defense of livestock and ones personal safety. Actually supplied information to help support the defense of BCs hunt in the past. I fully support a grizzly hunt here in Alberta

Do I believe that people are responsible for there own choices in bear country yes. Government is not responsible for bubble wrapping the wilderness for those who don’t take precautions to look after their personal safety. People need to take responsible for their own personal safety like they do in any other aspects of their lives

Grizzly are just another animal to realize is out there and there is risk of conflict. Personally I would be far more worried about cougars myself

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Of course you know how to tell the difference between a Black Bear and a Grizzly ? A Black will climb the tree after you, a Grizzly will just knock it down.

Grizz

I used to bug tourists when I lived in Canmore for a year a long time ago with the old bear crap identification joke. Black bear consists of beery seeds, grass, and small animal hair. Grizzly bear crap is full of bear bells, fabric and stinks of pepper spray

[Mr Conservation]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I used to bug tourists when I lived in Canmore for a year a long time ago with the old bear crap identification joke. Black bear consists of beery seeds, grass, and small animal hair. Grizzly bear crap is full of bear bells, fabric and stinks of pepper spray

Bear Warning Sign

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Mr Conservation

Bear Warning Sign

Should include a warning as well, bear spray is not like bug repellant, you spray the bear, not yourself. Heard a story, might be an urban legend though, about a bunch of Germans who showed up at the Crowsnest Pass hospital. Apparently, they were out hiking, when they spotted a bear, then doused each other with pepper spray.

Grizz

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Should include a warning as well, bear spray is not like bug repellant, you spray the bear, not yourself. Heard a story, might be an urban legend though, about a bunch of Germans who showed up at the Crowsnest Pass hospital. Apparently, they were out hiking, when they spotted a bear, then doused each other with pepper spray.

Grizz

I have never heard of people intentionally spraying each other

I did give a few tree planters a ride to their camp one spring after one of them got in a panic over a black bear and sprayed his co workers. It was the only time I loaded the box of my truck with hippies out bear hunting lol

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I may not be highly knowledgeable on grizzly in the prairies but I have lots of experience with the species. I was brought into a number of projects by a bio to help locate possible populations in BC and was successful. I fully understand the wide variety of foods they eat and the fact they don’t need big game numbers to sustain a population. There is probably way more grizzly presently in the foothills then is recorded and people don’t realize just how many. If you think I believe that grizzly cannot spread into the prairies you are assuming wrong. Far from Disney land views on these animals but instead have a healthy knowledge and respect for them

Read my post again I am a big supporter of hunting grizzly. I am in full support of defense of livestock and ones personal safety. Actually supplied information to help support the defense of BCs hunt in the past. I fully support a grizzly hunt here in Alberta

Do I believe that people are responsible for there own choices in bear country yes. Government is not responsible for bubble wrapping the wilderness for those who don’t take precautions to look after their personal safety. People need to take responsible for their own personal safety like they do in any other aspects of their lives

Grizzly are just another animal to realize is out there and there is risk of conflict. Personally I would be far more worried about cougars myself

The government shouldn't be bubble wrapping and no one suggested they should. They should clear the way so people can properly defend themselves and allow hunting so these animals learn to avoid.

Everyone believes you are responsible for your own choices in bear country. The towns like Penhold, Innisfail, and even cities like Red Deer are not grizzly country and should not be allowed to become grizzly country.

I saw tracks right upstream from the day use area at the Penhold bridge and within shouting distance of Dickson Dam. Kids enjoying a recreational area in basically suburban areas should not be mauled by a bear.

And I too worry about cougars, but when one comes to town we shoot it and it hardly makes a news story. Generally an old or very young cat chased from it's territory. They are chased around by hounds men and basically shot on sight in most farm country like wolves. The same thing should apply to grizzlies.

I often hear stories about coastal bears and how if left alone they are well fed and very use to sharing their homes with other bears and humans. I have also heard horror stories about the grizzlies up north and they are a solitary beast with a real problem with being encroached on. I believe our foot hills bears are much more like the northern bears than the ones on the salmon rivers in BC.

[Smoky buck]

Coastal bears are babies compared to northern and mountain grizzly that I agree with. It’s not a matter of available salmon but instead they are different sub species. Coastal grizzly and Alaskan brown bears are the same thing just different regional name. Been around a fair number of grizzly in Alberta and they are the same as BCs mountain grizzly. The fact they travel between the two provinces basically guarantees it. Majority of my experience is with northern and mountain/foot hills bears.

No lack of stories about grizzly in different areas some are honest accounts and some are highly exaggerated. Some stories are BS for tourists. I have buddies who like to scare out of town hunters with grizzly stories to keep them away from there favorite areas. Some of the FN in BC are paranoid of grizzly but they are taught like that from the time they are little. There is no other species in Northern America that carries the same level of stigma, myths and stories

I understand your position with problem bears within communities and odds are there has been grizzly quietly removed from many Alberta communities already. No argument from me if a grizzly steps out of line it should be dealt with

Don’t be too worked up about grizzly they are more prone to avoid people than black bear for starters. You are concerned about tracks near Dickson dam yet K country has lots of grizzly and even more people. It has tons of un educated tourists. The number of conflicts with grizzly are relatively low considering. Yes things happen I remember the sow grizzly that attacked multiple people around the Nordic center when I lived there

My views on grizzly are there from experience they are far from teddy bears and they deserve respect but it is not a major call for alarm. Well if you are a moose or elk calf then it’s different grizzly are hard on game

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Coastal bears are babies compared to northern and mountain grizzly that I agree with. It’s not a matter of available salmon but instead they are different sub species. Coastal grizzly and Alaskan brown bears are the same thing just different regional name. Been around a fair number of grizzly in Alberta and they are the same as BCs mountain grizzly. The fact they travel between the two provinces basically guarantees it. Majority of my experience is with northern and mountain/foot hills bears.

No lack of stories about grizzly in different areas some are honest accounts and some are highly exaggerated. Some stories are BS for tourists. I have buddies who like to scare out of town hunters with grizzly stories to keep them away from there favorite areas. Some of the FN in BC are paranoid of grizzly but they are taught like that from the time they are little. There is no other species in Northern America that carries the same level of stigma, myths and stories

I understand your position with problem bears within communities and odds are there has been grizzly quietly removed from many Alberta communities already. No argument from me if a grizzly steps out of line it should be dealt with

Don’t be too worked up about grizzly they are more prone to avoid people than black bear for starters. You are concerned about tracks near Dickson dam yet K country has lots of grizzly and even more people. It has tons of un educated tourists. The number of conflicts with grizzly are relatively low considering. Yes things happen I remember the sow grizzly that attacked multiple people around the Nordic center when I lived there

My views on grizzly are there from experience they are far from teddy bears and they deserve respect but it is not a major call for alarm. Well if you are a moose or elk calf then it’s different grizzly are hard on game

Her's one that could use you as an appetizer, if so inclined. That's the bears side of the river.


Here's the other side.



Grizz

[Smoky buck]

What they are capable of and what they choose to do are different things lol

Shared the river with grizzlies out fishing In northern BC and as long as they are content you are not in their fishing spot it’s not a big deal

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

People need to use there common sense and educate them selves. Sorry but I don’t agree whatsoever when it comes to blaming the government over bear conflict. Fact is black bear or grizzly both can chew on you if you don’t use your brains. Both have been around for a long time and in majority of encounters they are not an issue.

Maybe I have a different train of thought because I have spent plenty of time in areas with high bear numbers and was taught common sense regarding bears since I was a kid. Bears have just been part of being in the outdoors or opening my front door in the morning

I love to hunt bears of both species and support any hunter who wants to try it. I believe farmers should have the right to protect their livestock. If a man needs to shoot a bear in self defense I completely understand and support it

The whole boogeyman grizzly hiding behind every tree ready to eat people talk nope.

Don't make assumptions about my time in grizzly country, my thoughts on this come from that experience, mostly a dozen years of chasing sheep with the fever. I was only a couple mountains away from Rick Cross the day he got killed by one, we both headed in well before first light. Anyhow, i live in a major center and know so many people that head to the mountains thinking nothing of it, it's just a play ground. I think of all the people living between the centers and the mountains, kids out shooting gophers or anyone walking their own land, shed hunters, dog walkers etc. I do my part, i educate everyone i know and everyone i can, about the truth...and also about why the govt. doesn't make this common knowledge.

It's such a political thing that the govt. tries to say as little about it as possible. And that is the problem, they don't want to educate the truth about numbers and ranges because then that gives logical reason to ensure we manage them properly...and they don't want anything to do with that. Sadly, because to avoid the whole conflict and political storm of the heart voters vs the logical voters....you get a largely uneducated public. In my mind this is on the government 100%. They are putting the public at risk by trying to stay out of this. It's not super critical to educate most animals numbers since there are only a few that hurt us...but the ones that hurt us...the public should have the full story...all the time.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Don't make assumptions about my time in grizzly country, my thoughts on this come from that experience, mostly a dozen years of chasing sheep with the fever. I was only a couple mountains away from Rick Cross the day he got killed by one, we both headed in well before first light. Anyhow, i live in a major center and know so many people that head to the mountains thinking nothing of it, it's just a play ground. I think of all the people living between the centers and the mountains, kids out shooting gophers or anyone walking their own land, shed hunters, dog walkers etc. I do my part, i educate everyone i know and everyone i can, about the truth...and also about why the govt. doesn't make this common knowledge.

It's such a political thing that the govt. tries to say as little about it as possible. And that is the problem, they don't want to educate the truth about numbers and ranges because then that gives logical reason to ensure we manage them properly...and they don't want anything to do with that. Sadly, because to avoid the whole conflict and political storm of the heart voters vs the logical voters....you get a largely uneducated public. In my mind this is on the government 100%. They are putting the public at risk by trying to stay out of this. It's not super critical to educate most animals numbers since there are only a few that hurt us...but the ones that hurt us...the public should have the full story...all the time.

I never doubted you had time in grizzly country and you are entitled to your opinion. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree because I have way too much personal experience to change my mind on grizzly and the level of concern they warrant. There is no lack of experienced hunters who have very different opinions on grizzly

We are in agreement on the political issues when it comes to grizzly bears. There is no lack of false numbers and studies that were intentionally set up to fail. I know for a fact some populations are kept very hush and if your not asking the right questions you won’t hear about them. Plus in many cases bios truly just don’t know what is out there. There is a lot of anti money thrown towards grizzly as well

Still not onboard with blaming government and still believe people needed to realize bears and other predators are out there in general. People need to use common sense and realize animals don’t listen to where we believe they belong and can show up anywhere. The reality is even when people know what is out there they choose to make stupid choices. It is not just hikers from the city that make bad choices but also experienced outdoorsman

Either way I have the opinion I do for many reasons and I will leave it there everyone enjoy your time in the outdoors