Advice needed shotgun bear defence

[sk270]

I am asking this question because I own a 20 gauge shotgun and no "real" rifles.

Experts on this forum, and others, recommend .44 Remington Magnum pistols for bear defence as well as .45/70 in rifles. Three inch sabots from a 20 gauge far exceed .44 Magnum ballistics and come close to .45/70 energy figures at close range.

I am going camping in bear country but am not actively seeking an encounter. Would it not be reasonable to take my 20 gauge for bear emergencies?

If not, why not, given the ballistics mentioned above?

I have found a .357 Magnum carbine to be useful at short ranges for deer. This does not match the opinions given on a number of forums but I used it anyway. That leads me to my question. I'm wondering if any of you have used a 20 gauge sabot on anything bigger than a whitetail.

I realize that I should go out and buy, at least, a 12 gauge shotgun. However, that's not in the budget if I want to have the money to go on the trips. If it makes any difference, I will have bear spray.

Thanks for any informed opinions. I appreciate your taking the time.

[Battle Rat]

Read the 6.5 versus 300 thread.
Apparently a 6.5 cm is al you need, LOL.

[Dweb]

You'll be fine with slugs

[JustBen]

There are no experts on the forum, just lots of opinions.

Slugs in 20ga will be just fine.

[HuntinGuy]

I believe Challenger Slugs are the best you can buy in Canada, hard lead made to penetrate. Similar to brenneke slugs. They are Gualandi slugs from Italy. They make 20 gauge 7/8 oz but I use the 12 gauge 1 1/8 oz. good bear medicine.


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[Groundhogger]

A 20ga with slugs is better than no gun...but a 12ga with slugs is better than a 20ga. I'm no expert on this stuff, but I've carried a 12ga for protection against black bears here in Ontario..and even a large black bear doesn't compare to a grizzly.

I'd also urge you to practice with slugs no matter what gun you take. Bead sight guns are set-up for shot...not slugs..so using them for slugs..the point of impact may not be where you expect it to be. (vertically) Know where the gun is hitting, and at what distance.

[sk270]

Thanks for the replies.

I've seen the Challenger shells on the shelf. I'll buy some and do a bit of target shooting to see if I can hit a piece of paper first .

[AndrewM]

If you have a smooth barrel, make sure you get rifled slugs.

[Diesel_wiesel]

Browning gold 10 gauge stalker with slug choke 26 inch barrel
that will back up any bear if you can hit where yer aiming under stress
one slug one 00 buck shot one slug , should stop any charging bear

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by JustBen

There are no experts on the forum, just lots of opinions.

Slugs in 20ga will be just fine.

Sure !.. and hope for the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj7Z5oMWuIU

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

I would bring it along if I didn’t have any spray. Shot placement is key.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Diesel_wiesel

one slug one 00 buck shot one slug , should stop any charging bear

Whats the purpose of alternating slug to buck shot? Help me to understand.

[Huntsman]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Whats the purpose of alternating slug to buck shot? Help me to understand.

To better the chance of hitting the charging bruin..??
That’d be my guess. It does make sense though if you think about it
You have an animal charging towards you that will either kill or maim you. Either way its not good. Your heart rate is pounding, you are essentially shooting for your life. So sending a single projectile towards the bear with a 50/50 chance of missing. With the alternate buckshot idea you atleast have a somewhat better chance of connecting.
I’ve reloaded buck & ball loads for my 12g just for that.
.690 round ball with 5-6 .311 cal round ball or buckshot in a 2 3/4 shell.
Like mentioned too, Practice!!
Just my .02 cents

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Huntsman

To better the chance of hitting the charging bruin..??
That’d be my guess. It does make sense though if you think about it
You have an animal charging towards you that will either kill or maim you. Either way its not good. Your heart rate is pounding, you are essentially shooting for your life. So sending a single projectile towards the bear with a 50/50 chance of missing. With the alternate buckshot idea you atleast have a somewhat better chance of connecting.
I’ve reloaded buck & ball loads for my 12g just for that.
.690 round ball with 5-6 .311 cal round ball or buckshot in a 2 3/4 shell.
Like mentioned too, Practice!!
Just my .02 cents

Why do almost all professionals in the industry and wildlife officers recommend straight slugs?

[Talking moose]

At close range wouldn’t your pattern be very tight anyway?

[Huntsman]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Why do almost all professionals in the industry and wildlife officers recommend straight slugs?

Originally Posted by Talking moose

At close range wouldn’t your pattern be very tight anyway?

I totally get what you're saying, totally. And I agree with you. I'm just trying to picture the "what could happen"
That's what I hate about these bear gun threads- they always rabbit hole LOL
But even at close range one could completely miss when his life is danger and shaking uncontrollably yaddy yadda yadda. I get what you are saying, but things happen, not to all of us, but things happen and don't always go as planned.

Straight slugs still require to be aimed
Buckshot pointed at
So with slug & buckshot you better your chances at connecting no?
I cast slugs and buckshot plus many other calibers and have hunted with both onn deer and coyotes with success, the slugs that I am working with right now would be pretty lethal...if they hit....and hit in the right spot thru all that fur and what not.
I'm loading these bad boys now.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by JustBen

There are no experts on the forum, just lots of opinions.

Slugs in 20ga will be just fine.

Spot on......and a fat slow moving oblivious to surrounding bestest friend that is replaceable.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Huntsman

I totally get what you're saying, totally. And I agree with you. I'm just trying to picture the "what could happen"
That's what I hate about these bear gun threads- they always rabbit hole LOL
But even at close range one could completely miss when his life is danger and shaking uncontrollably yaddy yadda yadda. I get what you are saying, but things happen, not to all of us, but things happen and don't always go as planned.

Straight slugs still require to be aimed
Buckshot pointed at
So with slug & buckshot you better your chances at connecting no?
I cast slugs and buckshot plus many other calibers and have hunted with both onn deer and coyotes with success, the slugs that I am working with right now would be pretty lethal...if they hit....and hit in the right spot thru all that fur and what not.
I'm loading these bad boys now.

Think head shots and penetration 30 yards and closer....slugs it is.
Buckshot point blank will do in a pinch but your first one or maybe two should be slugs if your lucky.....

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Think head shots and penetration 30 yards and closer....slugs it is.
Buckshot point blank will do in a pinch but your first one or maybe two should be slugs if your lucky.....

Agreed. You want a slug to break down the bear. And it’s a rare case to get more than one shot off on a charging bear.

[Huntsman]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Agreed. You want a slug to break down the bear. And it’s a rare case to get more than one shot off on a charging bear.

So have the last shell a buckshot load.
There it’s settled.

[yukon254]

Originally Posted by Huntsman

So have the last shell a buckshot load.
There it’s settled.

Or the first if you are in the thick stuff. I've personally killed 3 bears with buckshot ( 2 blacks and a grizzly) even though I've read multiple times it cant be done. I've been guiding for 30 plus years and I've never seen bears killed as fast as the ones I've shot with a 12 gauge and buckshot. All shots were very close....15-yards and under.

[Dubious]

seen had a bull that needed to be put down at the ranch it was decided that a 12ga with a 3" 000 buck to the forehead point blank would do the job. there was a bang the bull wobbles staggers and then nothing... now I'm sure that bull was seeing stars but he was also mad as hell after that. when they used a slug to finish the job there was no question of its effectiveness. in the future ill be sticking to just slugs.

[Digger1]

Check out brobee’s slug penetration testing on YouTube. Federal Truball for the win!

[yukon254]

Originally Posted by Huntsman

So have the last shell a buckshot load.
There it’s settled.

Originally Posted by Digger1

Check out brobee’s slug penetration testing on YouTube. Federal Truball for the win!

Young fella down in Hoonah AK killed a big brown two years ago at point blank range with #7 shot. Made all the news here, as the kid was credited with saving his dad and uncles lives.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by yukon254

Young fella down in Hoonah AK killed a big brown two years ago at point blank range with #7 shot. Made all the news here, as the kid was credited with saving his dad and uncles lives.

Down here in Alberta, a .22 short killed a huge grizzly by slave lake.

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

Originally Posted by Digger1

Check out brobee’s slug penetration testing on YouTube. Federal Truball for the win!

After testing the true ball deep penatrator slugs I wasn’t impressed really. I’ve done some testing with several calibers on plate and I rate the round on wether they punch a clean hole through the plate or not, really I’m looking to break what ever I pull the trigger on. The true ball slugs only punched through at a closer ranges than others with more punch through power.
I’m still very impressed with what the 3” #1 buck has to offer, they really make a mess of things. I don’t know about a big fuzz balls skull but they will make Swiss cheese on a pig skull at twenty feet that’s for sure and punched right through to boot. For me and when I’m using a shotgun for defence if required, I go with 3” #1 buck first followed by 3” win super x slugs. Both down the pipe in 1.5 seconds should change the odds if I’m lucky.

[coyoteman]

When tracking wounded bear my weapon of choice is a 12ga pump, with short rifled barrel, Iron sites,later years red dot.Haveing skinned and help skin, around250 black bears.The ones hit with a 12 ga slug,showed the most bone and tissue damage.One gut shot bear, tryed to even the score, the 12 ga slug stopped him dead, at just a few feet.No time to have the hindrance of a scoped rifle.

[Camel73]

Originally Posted by coyoteman

When tracking wounded bear my weapon of choice is a 12ga pump, with short rifled barrel, Iron sites,later years red dot.Haveing skinned and help skin, around250 black bears.The ones hit with a 12 ga slug,showed the most bone and tissue damage.One gut shot bear, tryed to even the score, the 12 ga slug stopped him dead, at just a few feet.No time to have the hindrance of a scoped rifle.

Coyoteman, (and others...) what slugs are you using?

[Grizzly Adams]

Another Bear Defense thread. Always very popular.

Grizz

[Camel73]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Another Bear Defense thread. Always very popular.

Grizz

Actually, same one from December.