Debunking systemic racism and other

[jungleboy]

Inconvenient truths. Larry Elder discussing some of the myths around systemic racism , black lives matter, afimative action among other things . Very interesting video. Well worth watching.
https://youtu.be/vbhFubiFiqg

[Rvsask]

I’ll be the first (and likely only) to acknowledge that systemic racism has existed and I and my descendants will have benefitted. I do not feel guilty, but I can clearly see where it has existed in the past and certain issues in the present are because of that.

[EZM]

I find most of the people who say there is no "systematic racism" don't understand the concept. It doesn't mean people who run the system whisper in the back while a person of color comes in and try and purposefully find ways to discriminate against that person, nor does it mean those who make policies do the same either.

Systematic racism could be something as simple, and counter intuitive, as offering funding to one racial or religious group creating interdependence. Think about our welfare system, it is a perfect example of that, by handing out welfare money to the lazy and unwilling to work, you are, in fact not helping them learn to be self sufficient. (I know that's not racism but the analogy works here).

I agree with the premise that affirmative action has done just about as much harm as it has good, because we, artificially, through a quota, do not get the best suited and most qualified person every time if we are forced to maintain artificial ratios. I was never a fan of that. Really, that is a tool someone came up with, so Billy the Bigot, was forced to hire people of color because, Billy, being a bigot, wouldn't give candidates of color an equal opportunity. It did nothing to address the root cause of the issue.

On the other hand, systematic racism exists everywhere. It's real. conventional bigotry and home grown racism does too, I've seen it, and chances are you have too. We should never tolerate it and stand idly by as it happens.

We just need to weight the pandering and coddling against equality and equal opportunity.

"Love or Hate everyone equally"

I have, admittedly, used prejudices in my hiring, not consciously, but one day it clicked to me. I had some entry level labor jobs, crappy hard work, and I found myself choosing immigrants and those I felt would appreciate the job and work hard at it, show up everyday, and cause little or no issues - I rejected candidates because they were the proverbial "white kids" who would often need days off, show up late, be lazy and irresponsible and felt their next step in life was being the CEO of a big corporation.

I guess I realized that when I was having a conversation with the manager of the department who worked for me and I suggested we hire candidate A (an immigrant who had poor interviewing skills and no related experience) over candidate B ( a college kid who was very good at the interview) and he asked me why? …. The manager of the department, BTW, was a Syrian immigrant and told me I was racist against white people (we had a good laugh) but, in some ways, he was right. I was being prejudiced without consciously knowing it.

I was a contributing cause to this. Sometimes it comes in forms and in ways you don't even realize.

[Rvsask]

EZM,
I would like to say that I enjoy reading your posts, they’re factual, articulate, often reflective and well written.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Rvsask

EZM,
I would like to say that I enjoy reading your posts, they’re factual, articulate, often reflective and well written.

Thanks - appreciate it. I have to go back and edit them a half dozen time usually, but it's hard for me slow down enough to try and say everything I want to say. lol. Doing that they probably come out a little better.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Inconvenient truths. Larry Elder discussing some of the myths around systemic racism , black lives matter, afimative action among other things . Very interesting video. Well worth watching.
https://youtu.be/vbhFubiFiqg

This video may be worth watching. I may find out later. Right now I got to 1:30 and they had said nothing. There were a number of video clips that I suppose were included to generate my interest but I wouldn't have been watching if I weren't interested.

This may not be as bad as the "how to call ducks" videos that take the first five minutes to introduce the host and the duck caller, and tell you what call to buy, and why you want a duck call, and what the weather is like in Kentucky.

Nonetheless, I would prefer to read a transcript so I can skip over the bumpf. Just impatient I guess.

[bobtodrick]

It's definitely real (systemic racism).
Most here benefit from white privilege but don't realize it because it is what they grew up with. The fact that I, as a white male have never had to worry about not being accepted for a job because of my skin color...or know that when stopped by police it will go smoothly (as long as I don't act like a jerk)...it's been that way my entire life so it just wasn't something I thought about in the past.
But I've worked for large companies that had no employees that weren't white, even though I saw people of color applying for jobs.
I've seen police question white people on the street...it looks like a casual conversation...but when questioning an indigenous person it looks a lot less friendly.
It's human nature...when you've never been treated poorly you tend to think no one else is either.

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by sk270

This video may be worth watching. I may find out later. Right now I got to 1:30 and they had said nothing. There were a number of video clips that I suppose were included to generate my interest but I wouldn't have been watching if I weren't interested.

This may not be as bad as the "how to call ducks" videos that take the first five minutes to introduce the host and the duck caller, and tell you what call to buy, and why you want a duck call, and what the weather is like in Kentucky.

Nonetheless, I would prefer to read a transcript so I can skip over the bumpf. Just impatient I guess.

Sooo you couldn't get past the part of the video where they introduce the subject matter and the guest being interviewed but you think you would have the patience to read the transcript? lol okay.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Sooo you couldn't get past the part of the video where they introduce the subject matter and the guest being interviewed but you think you would have the patience to read the transcript? lol okay.

Yes. I have a lot of patience when reading something with some content but very little for empty chatter. How much can you read in 1.5 minutes? I'm sure it's a considerable amount more than what you get from listening for the same time.

I guess this triggered a "pet peeve" of mine, made worse by the fact that I am very interested in the topic and what Larry Elder has to say. I have the same problem with Ben Shapiro videos but not, of course, with his writing.

[mindoutside]

If white people are treated so well in Canada then why do they make up over half of the demographic of inmates?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...anada-by-race/

[sk270]

Originally Posted by mindoutside

If white people are treated so well in Canada then why do they make up over half of the demographic of inmates?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...anada-by-race/

If everything else were equal, whites would make up about +70% of the inmate population.

[Rvsask]

Math explains that one.

[pinelakeperch]

Originally Posted by mindoutside

If white people are treated so well in Canada then why do they make up over half of the demographic of inmates?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...anada-by-race/

You do realize that well over 50% of Canadians are white, right?

Swing and a miss!

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by mindoutside

If white people are treated so well in Canada then why do they make up over half of the demographic of inmates?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...anada-by-race/

That graph shows the total prison population.
It doesn't factor that in the last census 75% of Canadians identify as white.
So that means that 25% of the population accounts for nearly 44% of the prison population.
Or another way 75% of the population accounts for only 56% of the prison population.
Or that if you are not white you have twice as much chance of being in prison than if you are white.
I'm not an apologist...I think the reason for the real numbers is that certain segments of society commit the majority of crimes...but your supplied graph doesn't back up your argument.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by mindoutside

If white people are treated so well in Canada then why do they make up over half of the demographic of inmates?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...anada-by-race/

I think you might need to think about proportionate representation to answer your question.

It's very likely data and facts will serve to contradict the point I think you were trying to make.

[mindoutside]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

That graph shows the total prison population.
It doesn't factor that in the last census 75% of Canadians identify as white.
So that means that 25% of the population accounts for nearly 44% of the prison population.
Or another way 75% of the population accounts for only 56% of the prison population.
Or that if you are not white you have twice as much chance of being in prison than if you are white.
I'm not an apologist...I think the reason for the real numbers is that certain segments of society commit the majority of crimes...but your supplied graph doesn't back up your argument.

Got any source? Everyone has anecdotal's to back it up and that's gospel but the one set of facts that comes across is just obviously wrong and misunderstood. Typical left wing garbage arguments. Representation of these numbers, whether you are right or wrong, doesn't predict the future. You do not have any greater or lesser chance of going to jail based on your skin colour. Its based on your actions as an individual.

Any statistic is based on the past, if you based your finances on past statistics you would also loose alot of money.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Rvsask

EZM,
I would like to say that I enjoy reading your posts, they’re factual, articulate, often reflective and well written.

Agreed. Bad at poker but posts well.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

That graph shows the total prison population.
It doesn't factor that in the last census 75% of Canadians identify as white.
So that means that 25% of the population accounts for nearly 44% of the prison population.
Or another way 75% of the population accounts for only 56% of the prison population.
Or that if you are not white you have twice as much chance of being in prison than if you are white.
I'm not an apologist...I think the reason for the real numbers is that certain segments of society commit the majority of crimes...but your supplied graph doesn't back up your argument.

Crime usually tracks socio economic levels.

Best way to lift any group out of crime is through education and positive life experiences.

While we may not help someone pay for education we can be role models, helping encourage a youth to do well in school while teaching them how to fish.

[pittman]

Originally Posted by mindoutside

Got any source? Everyone has anecdotal's to back it up and that's gospel but the one set of facts that comes across is just obviously wrong and misunderstood. Typical left wing garbage arguments. Representation of these numbers, whether you are right or wrong, doesn't predict the future. You do not have any greater or lesser chance of going to jail based on your skin colour. Its based on your actions as an individual.

Any statistic is based on the past, if you based your finances on past statistics you would also loose alot of money.

Keep on digging that hole of yours...

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Agreed. Bad at poker but posts well.

Depends what I'm poking .......

[st99]

yeah right...

This the response I got from one of my latest job application, I'm so fortunate that my white privilege will keep me unemployed.

"Thank you for submitting your application for position Purchasing and Stores Manager . Your application has been entered in our database for further review.

International Paper participates in the Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC) program. WOTC is a Federal tax credit available to employers for hiring individuals from certain target groups who have consistently faced significant barriers to employment. WOTC joins other workforce programs that incentivize workplace diversity and facilitate access to good jobs for American workers."

We are providing you a link to the Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC) Survey administered by Ernst & Young (EY). We would appreciate you taking a few minutes to complete the WOTC survey.

[jungleboy]

..

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by mindoutside

Got any source? Everyone has anecdotal's to back it up and that's gospel but the one set of facts that comes across is just obviously wrong and misunderstood. Typical left wing garbage arguments. Representation of these numbers, whether you are right or wrong, doesn't predict the future. You do not have any greater or lesser chance of going to jail based on your skin colour. Its based on your actions as an individual.

Any statistic is based on the past, if you based your finances on past statistics you would also loose alot of money.

Source....2016 Canadian Census on Stats Can website.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by mindoutside

Got any source? Everyone has anecdotal's to back it up and that's gospel but the one set of facts that comes across is just obviously wrong and misunderstood. Typical left wing garbage arguments. Representation of these numbers, whether you are right or wrong, doesn't predict the future. You do not have any greater or lesser chance of going to jail based on your skin colour. Its based on your actions as an individual.

Any statistic is based on the past, if you based your finances on past statistics you would also loose alot of money.

I think several people have said this already but I'll try again. About 73% of the Canadian population is Caucasian and about 56% of Federal inmates are Caucasian. One of these numbers is from the Canadian Census and the other is from your graph. If everything else were equal, 73% of the Federal inmates would be Caucasian. The number is far lower.

What that means is that until now, Caucasians go to prison far less often than expected on the basis of total numbers. This is a fact, not anecdotal.

People with other skin colours go to jail more often than expected on the basis of total numbers. Again, this is a fact, not anecdotal.

Apparently you think that this is going to change despite the fact that it has been going on for a long time, basically since records have been kept. Unfortunately for you, the past does predict the future. That is the basis for our understanding of reality. This will not work only if something changes. If we don't change society, Caucasians will continue to be under-represented in prison.

[wildwoods]

I believe a major driver of racism in our country is derived from the law of unintended consequences. By giving more rights to natives (hunting and fishing), more voice and more leniency (think rail blockades, JT's condemnation of the Boushie verdict etc...) in some respects, it causes more resentment than simply leveling the playing field.

That's not to say there are areas where us white folk have mistreated, abused and beat down that portion of our society. We ought to be ashamed of some of the treatment over the years. In no way will I justify that.

But the rest is food for thought

[Positrac]

Originally Posted by EZM

Depends what I'm poking .......

Family members don’t count...just sayin...

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by sk270

If we don't change society, Caucasians will continue to be under-represented in prison.

There is an unassailable logic in the thought process behind such a statement.
I propose the following simple solution that should be acceptable to both the virtue signalling progressives as well as the intelligent, non-racist people in our society. No need to keep count or worry about those pesky quotas; it will make life so much better for everyone.
It's a win-win scenario.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by urban rednek

There is an unassailable logic in the thought process behind such a statement.

I'm glad you agree with me. When I saw your heading I thought I was in for an argument. 😁

[bobtodrick]

I think one thing should be kept in mind. Some in society (like BLM ) would call me a racist because I feel more comfortable around people who are like me.
I like camping, shooting and the outdoors. Don’t have many friends who are ballet dancers (though I actually know two). Doesn’t mean anything other than we don’t have the same interests.
For sixty years I’ve grown up with other white kids and that’s whom I socialize with for the most part....other than a brother in law who is Cree and a future daughter in law who is Métis...their both part of my extended family.
Now, if I was in a position to hire someone and their were credentials were the same, one black one white I’d probably hire the white person because they are like me. I would also hope that if the black persons credentials were better I would hire them.
So in this day and age there are those that would likely call me a racist.
There was the report if a woman in the States who over the weekend proclaimed at a anti racist demonstration that she hated all blacks and was going to teach her grandchildren to hate them too.
That’s what irritates me...the extreme left, such as BLM are trying to paint us all with the same brush, making them just as intolerant as the card carrying KKK member.
Wow....that was long winded!

[jungleboy]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

I think one thing should be kept in mind. Some in society (like BLM ) would call me a racist because I feel more comfortable around people who are like me.
I like camping, shooting and the outdoors. Don’t have many friends who are ballet dancers (though I actually know two). Doesn’t mean anything other than we don’t have the same interests.
For sixty years I’ve grown up with other white kids and that’s whom I socialize with for the most part....other than a brother in law who is Cree and a future daughter in law who is Métis...their both part of my extended family.
Now, if I was in a position to hire someone and their were credentials were the same, one black one white I’d probably hire the white person because they are like me. I would also hope that if the black persons credentials were better I would hire them.
So in this day and age there are those that would likely call me a racist.
There was the report if a woman in the States who over the weekend proclaimed at a anti racist demonstration that she hated all blacks and was going to teach her grandchildren to hate them too.
That’s what irritates me...the extreme left, such as BLM are trying to paint us all with the same brush, making them just as intolerant as the card carrying KKK member.
Wow....that was long winded!

Racism isn’t the just for white people, people of all colours practice it on a daily basis.

I have a good friend who likes to proclaim. “ I’m not racist,I hate everybody equally ”