Alberta Royalty Review - Page 6

Reeves1 · #**151** 11-02-2007, 08:00 AM

I'm nearly old enough to be one of those greeters

Except I'm too cranky for that job

bearbait · #**152** 11-02-2007, 04:33 PM

wow.....alot of tension.....

first and formost....we in the patch make great sacrifices to earn the cash we get....

second the royalties will affect alberta greatly...

third if you dont know what is going on in the patch dont pretend to......

finaly pull your heads out of the sand and listen to reason....royalties hike, the a 33% pipeline tax implimented, then our dollar being so strong, and a big kick in the nuts from albertans.....why would big oil stay???? we as a province are debt free becouse of the patch...you all seem to know something all of us in the patch dont so i ask.....where did you get your info from???alot of opinions being throughen out there but any facts to support them....i just dont get how some can be so blind...well i guess when we are all on e.i. and the province is broke and the social programs can not be supported...then mabey then people will see how important the patch is to alberta...wont happen over night but we are not the smartest investment out there anymore....we always say point your gun in a safe direction.....well they dident mean at your foot!!!

rob
area sales manager/dispatcher for major trucking co in the patch.

bearbait · #**153** 11-02-2007, 04:35 PM

by the way i see no comment to this so ill post again...

so mabey the loggers should also pay 40-50 % royalties they use our trees....oh and the farmers, they use albertas soil...what about the bottled water companys.....oh then there's the mines as well....all resources we as albertans own.....why pick on just the oil co's...we can make billions more....

russ · #**154** 11-03-2007, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearbait

by the way i see no comment to this so ill post again...

so mabey the loggers should also pay 40-50 % royalties they use our trees....oh and the farmers, they use albertas soil...what about the bottled water companys.....oh then there's the mines as well....all resources we as albertans own.....why pick on just the oil co's...we can make billions more....

oh and it's called stumpage fees and land taxes & income taxes and yes the bottled water companies should be paying royalties.

Never MIND that the landowner OWNS the surface rights UNLIKE the oil companies.

bearbait · #**155** 11-03-2007, 09:12 AM

just makeing a point....and the oil co still have to pay tax just like any other companys...

Reeves1 · #**156** 11-03-2007, 09:55 AM

bearbait you seeing the same as me, where all (most?) of the pipe line work has ground nearly to a halt ?

I see in my area that CNRL has canceled many jobs/projects: I know a consultant that does the area's work & he has been sitting most of the summer...and still is.
Husky has had a huge "slow down" , although they are still drilling (shallow here) , but any pipe going in is one-three day jobs (short).
I have no idea what the rest of the Prov. is doing, except that my many calls to pipe line companies has done nothing but run up my phone bill....
Been calling other Provinces, even looking at a couple companies in Russia.

Sure hope things pick up soon ! I moved here for more work

Walleyes · #**157** 11-03-2007, 12:42 PM

Nope its purely a figment of our imagination that its slow guys... Just ask all the guys on here that don't work in the patch they'll tell us... After all they know more about the patch than we do... I mean I have only spent 24 years chasing rigs now what the hell would I know about it ????

They will say its slow because of gas prices,, well yes that speaks for the summer.. But what they don't realise is that this time of the year we are usually gearing up for a big winter.. Well it ain't happening.. Instead we are getting notifications of cancelled projects.. But hey must just be my imagination again...

Reeves I hope you can keep busy.. You are not the only one that moved here for work.. Plenty did and I hope the best to all of them... But as they all say on here,,we deserve it we all wasted our money on drugs, trucks, quads and the rest we just blew.. Hmmm wonder then how my mortgage got paid, wonder how I can afford to send my son through college, hmm wonder where I got the money for my G.I.C's must of fell out of the sky because I've been told many times on here that all us oilfield people do is throw our money away... After all they would all know rite,, just ask them...

The best to you guys and keep in touch,, if I can help I will.. Send me a P.M. with some background credentials never know when I can help...

BrainTan · #**158** 11-03-2007, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleyes

.. Hmmm wonder then how my mortgage got paid, wonder how I can afford to send my son through college, hmm wonder where I got the money for my G.I.C's must of fell out of the sky because I've been told many times on here that all us oilfield people do is throw our money away... After all they would all know rite,, just ask them...

Why bother saving for your kids education? The way they are pillaging our oil resources there will be nothing but worthless scraps to keep this vibrant economy alive in the future. And of course without oil Alberta is nothing so why set your kids up for such a horrible downfall? Such heavy reliance on a finite resource is a bit ridiculous from an economics point of view. Whats the back up plan when we are done with our oil? Just run to wherever the next rig is and leave Alberta with the scars form the oil and gas.

I love how patch workers are the only ones who feel they should have a comment. Most patch workers I know barely have a highschool education, just who I want to represent me in political matters!!! This not to say there are no educated people in the patch, but when you work in it you are blinded by your own bias because it directly affects you.

Walleyes · #**159** 11-03-2007, 01:40 PM

So a few more dollars a year in the governments coffers to blow on useless programs will fix all this... We all know that oil and gas are not here for ever.. So what do you want ??? no one to work in the patch ???

Quote:

I love how patch workers are the only ones who feel they should have a comment.

We may feel this way because we are the ones that are being directly effected by other peoples decisions.. If this was a farming issue would you not expect farmers to have the biggest say ??? no.. Was it not the forest industry that was directly involved in the soft wood lumber dispute ??? Then why the double standard... Why are the oil companies being told to take it or leave with no regard for the effect it is having on us.. The people... The workers with families and plans and dreams for our children and their future.. But I guess we mean nothing to this province,, we are oilfield trash we are not worthy of respect... People are sitting back and saying good for you people you deserve it.. They are saying good leave we don't care... Do you see the irony in this...

I am a 3rd generation Albertan but I don't count because of my occupation... My grandfather homesteaded in this province in 1913, don't tell me about being here for a quick buck.. I just wonder how many people that are behind this fiasco can claim that... Well thx I am for ever indebted to you all for showing me the light.. Don't know how we all survived till now.. I guess a few scraped by in the province.. But she's all good now... Thx..

BrainTan · #**160** 11-03-2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleyes

So a few more dollars a year in the governments coffers to blow on useless programs will fix all this... We all know that oil and gas are not here for ever.. So what do you want ??? no one to work in the patch ???

We may feel this way because we are the ones that are being directly effected by other peoples decisions.. If this was a farming issue would you not expect farmers to have the biggest say ??? no.. Was it not the forest industry that was directly involved in the soft wood lumber dispute ??? Then why the double standard... Why are the oil companies being told to take it or leave with no regard for the effect it is having on us.. The people... The workers with families and plans and dreams for our children and their future.. But I guess we mean nothing to this province,, we are oilfield trash we are not worthy of respect... People are sitting back and saying good for you people you deserve it.. They are saying good leave we don't care... Do you see the irony in this...

I am a 3rd generation Albertan but I don't count because of my occupation... I just wonder how many people that are behind this fiasco can claim that... Well thx I am for ever indebted to you all for showing me the light.. Don't know how we all survived till now.. I guess a few scraped by in the province.. But she's all good now... Thx..

See this is the problem Walleyes. You sit on your high horse above everyone else and throw mud and then accuse us of slamming you for being an oilfield worker. You think you mean everything to this province which is contrary to your statement that Alberta thinks your nothing. I am aware that oilfield workers are directly affected and should be voicing their concerns, but maybe if you come down off that high horse and rejoin regular everyday society you will see that oilfield workers are "NOT" the only stakeholder for Alberta's resources. There is no double standard unless you set it yourself.

Why do you deserve special treatment for being an oilfield worker. Do you cry yourself to sleep when there are government cutbacks and little suzy loses her secretary job and can't afford to feed her kids.

I am amused that you throw in your a 3rd generation Albertan, what does this have to do with the Royalty Review. Are you supposed to receive an award or special treatment because your family was here sooner than some?

In my eyes all Albertans matter, but nobody deserves to be given special treatment just becaused they are used to a fat paycheck that supposedly singlehandedly pays my sorry arse to live.

BrainTan · #**161** 11-03-2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleyes

So a few more dollars a year in the governments coffers to blow on useless programs will fix all this... We all know that oil and gas are not here for ever.. So what do you want ??? no one to work in the patch ???

I would rather see a more sustainable development and maintenance of our oil and gas industry. I would rather see our province prosper in the long term not the short term. I would like to see Alberta maximize it's profits off it's oil and gas industry. If it is a piddly few dollars, then the oil companies have zero need to complain!

If you still think the sky is falling, when the dust settles I'll help you pick it up!

Walleyes · #**162** 11-03-2007, 02:31 PM

I stated my being a 3rd generation Albertan because of this statement..

Quote:

Whats the back up plan when we are done with our oil? Just run to wherever the next rig is and leave Alberta with the scars form the oil and gas.

Sorry been here a while and plan on staying...

And in no way do I expect special treatment where in my statement do you get that.. It is quite the opposite what I stated was why are our views disregarded as nonsense.. Like I said why in the soft wood lumber talks the forest industry was directly involved.. Why on decisions made on farming the farmers point of view is used and respected.. But on the royalty review !! oh no the peoples point of view is biased and does not count... I am not an oil company the other guys on here that work in the industry are not oil companies.. We are working slugs like everyone else.. But time and time again on here we are told we don't know what we are talking about and we are just brain washed... Why are we not allowed to defend our lively hoods and our jobs,, because they are oilfield jobs so they don't count.. I don't do this job on weekends I'm a lifer its what I do,, its what I'm good at.. I don't have a rite to try and protect it ??? I should just shut up and take what ever the rest of the people decide is best for me... This is asking for special treatment ehh the rite to protect ones job and profession..

Quote:

In my eyes all Albertans matter, but nobody deserves to be given special treatment just becaused they are used to a fat paycheck that supposedly singlehandedly pays my sorry arse to live

I know where this is coming from,, its from my statement about my income.. I did not use that example to brag,, not at all.. It was used as an example of yes we get payed well but to show how many days out of a year I spend away from home and family and the sacrifices that some of us in this industry make.. Its not all just fun and games.. We make plenty sacrifices for it..

Quote:

Most patch workers I know barely have a highschool education,

So because of this we are second class citizens.. Oh by the way since you're so educated what does "becaused " mean and "singlehandedly" I'm not educated as well as you but I beleive its spelled "because" and two words "single handily"...

Walleyes · #**163** 11-03-2007, 02:39 PM

Anyways this is getting old.. Its done,, you people got you're way.. We will just have to deal with it... I've got more constructive things to talk about... Like hunting and fishing..

Again thank you all for saving us...

bearbait · #**164** 11-03-2007, 02:49 PM

all i can say is 49% of $0 is in fact $0...this will cost alberta 9.6 billion a year...thats 9.6 billion less for all the programs...with the increase work has slowed and alberta will lose money...money that has to be replaced, replaced by riseing taxes...as far as the brain dead oil patch workers go......not even worth wasting my breath on......why sling mud......

BrainTan · #**165** 11-03-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleyes

I know where this is coming from,, its from my statement about my income.. I did not use that example to brag,, not at all.. It was used as an example of yes we get payed well but to show how many days out of a year I spend away from home and family and the sacrifices that some of us in this industry make.. Its not all just fun and games.. We make plenty sacrifices for it..

So because of this we are second class citizens.. Oh by the way since you're so educated what does "becaused " mean and "singlehandedly" I'm not educated as well as you but I beleive its spelled "because" and two words "single handily"...

Thanks for the spell check. It goes to show just how childish some people can be. And if you're going to comment on other peoples grammar maybe you should go as far as to provide the proper way of spelling yourself. It's actually single handedly, sorry for missing the space please forgive my despiteful sin oh holier than thou. You sacrifice yourself for "MONEY". Not the good of the people. How am I supposed to feel sorry for you when you sacrifice yourself for your own greed. you could have just as functional and healthy of a family(or way of life) outside the oilfield

When farmers, foresters, miners, etc encounter similar issues they do not get the only say. They still have to listen to stakeholders of the resourvce much the same as oil and gas. Oilfield workers should have a say just the same as anyone, but they do not deserve the only word. And if you think you're "oilfield people" as you like to separate them form the general public are not being represented then get off your ass and go represent them.

Quietly awaiting your spell check

TreeGuy · #**166** 11-03-2007, 09:08 PM

Brain Tan, you gotta increase you SPF. Although ideolocigally I lean more toward your arguement than Walleye's, there is no need to be a damn ******* about it! Do you not realize that guys like Walleyes and Bearbait have their livelihoods at stake here? Come on.

Tree

bearbait · #**167** 11-04-2007, 08:14 AM

brian.....
stop the flaming......walleyes ignore the bs....this ones dead.....cant reson with certian people...the population will see in the end...till then its a waste of breath.....when they can relize we are concerned for alberta not our selfs then they may understand...
rob

BrainTan · #**168** 11-04-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeGuy

Brain Tan, you gotta increase you SPF. Although ideolocigally I lean more toward your arguement than Walleye's, there is no need to be a damn ******* about it! Do you not realize that guys like Walleyes and Bearbait have their livelihoods at stake here? Come on.

Tree

Treeguy, I'll offer an apology to you, Walleyes and Bearbait. Unfortunately a previous post really ****ed me off and I let it affect me personally. I felt rather insulted to say the least.

I do not want to see anyone lose their job, but I do see some potential for good in the royalty review. To make a long story short, I believe it is a stepping stone for a more sustainable Alberta. And if this is completely unreasonable to others then so be it.

I'll do my best to keep the emotions for the football and hockey games!

orca · #**169** 11-05-2007, 08:08 AM

Anyone see the News on En Cana 2.5 billion invested in Texas oil fields . Could be the start

russ · #**170** 11-05-2007, 08:28 AM

Here's the thing, the oil industry has always been cyclical. So please don't expect this to last, it's been a great few years but the end is near and the sky is falling and everyone is blaming everyone else.

#**171** 11-05-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orca

Anyone see the News on En Cana 2.5 billion invested in Texas oil fields . Could be the start

It's a very good indication anyways. That 2.5 billion was taken from their drilling budget in Canada.

And I am personally feeling it already. I am a Wellsite Supervisor. Where am I working right now? Salt Lake City. It was the only work available, so I took it.
After I am done here, the outlook from my office (pimping firm) is disasterous at best for the winter.

Start saving your pennies.

Big Moose · #**172** 11-05-2007, 10:01 AM

Gentlemen heres a fact, no where outside of North america do oil companies enjoy set royalty fees. The US system is different then ours but is basically similar it just differs in who gets paid. The fact of the matter is other countries change or cancel agreements with the oil companies all the time and they are still in those countries. The oil companies are going to strut and **** & moan to scare us into keeping things the same to protect their huge profits. This is a stable environment to make money in and they are not going anywhere.

Short term yes we will probably see a knee jerk re-action. The simple truth is that the 2.5 bil going to texas was probably on the books already and because of high labour costs and the proposed royalty hike, it made more business sense to do that investment at this time.

Our slow down has more to do with sky rocketing costs then with royalties.

The drilling programs may be slow but the capital investment projects are still moving forward. So the rig boys are slow and the construction boys get to pick and choose where they work.

Its no consultation to the rig boys that are feeling the crunch, but other parts of the patch are healthy and expanding.

Tredeb · #**173** 11-05-2007, 10:30 AM

One of the most ironic things that I notice is that most people seem to think that a slowdown in the oilfield only affects the oilfield. That is where the first casualties will be, but the worst casualties will be outside of the oilfield.

The issue of main concern is the value of housing. Consider this example:
Someone is holding a mortgage on a house for $300,000 and the house is worth $350,000. Lets say they have a three year mortgage. What happens if house prices fall and houses equivalent to theirs are only worth $250,000 when their mortgage comes due. Does the bank give them a mortgage for $50,000 more than their house is worth, or do they have to ante up an additional $50,000 so the mortgage can meet the appraisal value. Do they even want a $300,000 mortgage when the house is worth $250,000. When is the differential high enough to walk away and leave the bank with the house.

Sure, you may damage your credit rating, but is your credit rating worth $50,000, or $100,000? This is where the difference lies.

An oilfield worker, whether overpaid or not, has the ability to make large amounts of money is short periods of time. If they take a large hit financially, they have the means to recover when things turn around, or by going where there is work. How does someone on a fixed salary recover from a larger financial hit.

To use Walleyes numbers for example, he could probably work half as much and by moving a few assets around, he would be fine. That is that case with many of the oilfield service industry. Sure, some may not have managed their money well and they may have some lean times ahead if there is a downturn. However, their earning potential is what will get them out of trouble down the road.

The average person outside of the industry does not have that earning potential and those are the people that will be harmed the most by an economic downturn.

Tredeb · #**174** 11-05-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Moose

The drilling programs may be slow but the capital investment projects are still moving forward. So the rig boys are slow and the construction boys get to pick and choose where they work.

Its no consultation to the rig boys that are feeling the crunch, but other parts of the patch are healthy and expanding.

That is a huge misconception. If oil companies do not keep drilling new wells, we will see a huge downturn when the production of those delayed wells does not come online. By not drilling wells, the oil companies are going into blowdown mode. They will continue to spend money to get the oil they have access to, but without new wells, the industry will take a downturn.

Are new wells not capital investments? The projects going ahead right now are the ones that are too advanced to cancel. Many new projects have been delayed and may not go at all.

People need to understand that an oil company cannot go ahead with a project based on a peak oil price. They need to estimate the lowest oil price for which a project can be profitable. If that price is above the projected average price, the project will not go ahead. Projects don't go ahead just because oil is $95 today.

Big Moose · #**175** 11-05-2007, 10:51 AM

Of course the industry takes a down turn when drilling and construction aren't happening at the same time. But this is not new. The companies have to play catch up and get new resources on line and into the revenue stream. The point I was trying to make that the sky isn't falling on the patch. It might get alittle grey for awhile but things will pick up again. This industry has a cycle nature.

Tredeb · #**176** 11-05-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Moose

Of course the industry takes a down turn when drilling and construction aren't happening at the same time. But this is not new. The companies have to play catch up and get new resources on line and into the revenue stream. The point I was trying to make that the sky isn't falling on the patch. It might get alittle grey for awhile but things will pick up again. This industry has a cycle nature.

I agree, I don't think things will collapse, but there will be a correction to get costs under control.

Whether this is really due to the Royalty review or due to a combination of things, it will probably be spun as royalty review. As you mentioned, Moose, the oilfield is cyclical. There hasn't been a downturn for awhile and I think the oil companies will use this opportunity to squeeze the service providers.

Big Moose · #**177** 11-05-2007, 02:35 PM

Yes it will probably be spun as a problem from the royalties but what I read in yesterdays Sun seemed more plausable. Basically the article said that the royalties would amount to 1.2 bil extra from ALL companies. While costs have increased in the last 2 years for the Horizon project alone from 4.9 bil to 7.7bil.

The article also said that the cost of drilling in Canada can be as much as 80% more than in the US. That would put the 2.5bil Encana move to texas in perspective.

It sounds like the Alberta drilling boys may have to travel further to punch a hole while the costs of production get beat back to a more sustainable level in Alberta.

Walleyes · #**178** 11-05-2007, 03:20 PM

Just got word that Leader Energy is done.. They were doing our cementing here down south but apparently its over for them.. We heard a while ago that they were selling off assets to keep er going over the slow summer but they had bid on a nice project up north hoping it would pull them through.. But the project was cancelled so they had no choice but to shut er down.. There is about 30 guys (most with families) out of work..

For those of you that don't know Leader Energy is a well cementing and frac company that started out about 2 years ago.. Thay had some of the best guys in the industry working for them.. I knew some of them well.. I hope the best to them.. This is of course not offical I would emagine they are going to keep it quite... Again Thx Alberta...

steveo10 · #**179** 11-05-2007, 04:45 PM

Im out in the moutains rite now and cant access a paper... anyone read the "letter to the editor" or whatever its called today in the Edmonton Sun. A friend or mine posted a editorial in there (about the royalities and was another friend seen it and couldnt believe it got published...lol

20 triples workin in my area... keep a punchin and a pumpin

russ · #**180** 11-06-2007, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleyes

Just got word that Leader Energy is done.. They were doing our cementing here down south but apparently its over for them.. We heard a while ago that they were selling off assets to keep er going over the slow summer but they had bid on a nice project up north hoping it would pull them through.. But the project was cancelled so they had no choice but to shut er down.. There is about 30 guys (most with families) out of work..

For those of you that don't know Leader Energy is a well cementing and frac company that started out about 2 years ago.. Thay had some of the best guys in the industry working for them.. I knew some of them well.. I hope the best to them.. This is of course not offical I would emagine they are going to keep it quite... Again Thx Alberta...

Yeah that's all the royalties

, what about labour costs? What about the high dollar, what about plain old greed from within the industry? What about just plain crappy management practices? What about taking a good hard look at yourselves before blaming something that doesn't even amount to spit in daily operating costs? Hmm, what about that?