Alberta Royalty Review - Page 4

bearbait · #91 10-20-2007, 08:46 AM

well i dont know what went on in the closed door talks but bussness has just picked up!!!hope its a sign of good things to come....i think the oil co's know something we dont as my fleet has benn very busy for 2 days now!!!

BrownBear416 · #92 10-20-2007, 09:29 AM

The oil company i work for has been drilling year round and i have not heard anything about slowing down.

bearbait · #93 10-20-2007, 09:31 AM

hows the slave lake area??busy??

BrownBear416 · #94 10-20-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearbait

hows the slave lake area??busy??

BB,

Yes it is pretty busy and i see lots of drilling rigs around.I work for a small oilfield company and we are busy developing a new field about 25km west of Slave Lake.

Jamie · #95 10-27-2007, 02:37 AM

WOW...
Did this thread die!

So what is everyones thoughts?

Personaly... I think its just about right. Oil companys are not that mad, voters seem ok with it.. Ed came off as sounding like he knew what he was doing. He impressed me a little bit. Still has a long ways to go.. But he did ok.

Jamie

WCTHEMI · #96 10-27-2007, 05:01 AM

There may be a few tough years, but even if they do pull out some money, they will be back later, and will pay the toll. The fine line is to make them pay a fair price, and still keep their costs low enough that they can maximize their profits.

russ · #97 10-27-2007, 06:48 AM

The sabre rattling is over - even if some development does shift to Sk. it's about time development was tempered a bit any way.

bearbait · #98 10-27-2007, 10:42 AM

well iguess there will be lost jobs....

so mabey the loggers should also pay 40-50 % royalties....oh and the farmers...what about the bottled water companys.....oh then there's the mines as well....all resources we as albertans own.....why pick on just the oil co's...we can make billions more....

what a joke....so many so blind.....lets do it across the board....shut down the province compleatly....what ever..
rob

#99 10-27-2007, 10:50 AM

Can someone give me the short version of what got decided? I'm down in Utah, and want to know how the drilling forecast looks for the winter?

Did the door get slammed shut, or are we going to drill some holes finally. I have been waiting on that report to aid in a decision of what work I am going to do this winter.

Thanks, Joe

Walleyes · #**100** 10-27-2007, 11:07 AM

1.4 billion for Albertans wow... First of all what a joke,, what do people think all of a sudden we are going to start to drive on streets paved with gold ??? pay no taxes,, please.. This money will be sucked up in short time,, just wait and see,, everybody is going to start to line up at the trough and the general public is not going to see any change in life or our future... When this thing slows down how long is it going to take to suck up that money to just maintain the life style that is enjoyed by the socialist in this country... And 1.4 billion please.. That is peanuts to what is going to be lost by the province, in land sales, taxes from laid off workers who are going to need poggy, bail outs of small companies the government is going to have to help out with.. Lost revenues by countless people and businesses.. Oh so blind they are the narrow minded of this province...

And lets not forget one very important thing.. The province of A.B. has binding contracts with two of the largest oil producers in this Country.. These contracts are good till 2016, what are they going to do ??? rip up those contracts,, sorry that is illegal and if they do what sort of precedence are they setting ???

There is a reason that steady Eddie the pig farmer from Two Hills put it off till 2009... He damn well knows his chances of being re-elected are very slim... When they call an election this spring and they will because they will be told to !!! they will have a vote of confidence and this moron will not get in.. So when Dinning gets in He will do what is best for the province and put through a royalty increase that makes sense... In other words he will do what he is told to do by the people that run this place... Dont believe me lets just wait and see...

outlaw'd · #**101** 10-27-2007, 01:03 PM

Got this in an email.................and yes my job is oilfield related.

Here is a good analogy for the Stelmachistan government to consider while
mulling over their "fair share" conundrum. I think this explains the opinion polls (75% in favor of the Royalty increase) to a tee. Of course,the panel doesn't even consider the possibility that the "size of the pie" might get smaller rather than simply taking a bigger piece of a pie that stays the same size.. Since it is tax season let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand.
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20."Drinks for the ten now cost just $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings."I only got a dollar out of the $20,"declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!""Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!" "That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the
bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who
do not understand, no explanation is possible.

getasheep · #**102** 10-27-2007, 02:30 PM

As an aside to the royalty debate, I'd just lake to challenge the authenticity of the above email:

"Contrary to Internet folklore, Dr. Kamerschen is NOT the author of "Tax Cuts: A Simple Lesson in Economics." Additionally, he does NOT know who wrote it. "

http://davidk.myweb.uga.edu/

http://www.snopes.com/business/taxes/howtaxes.asp

Speaking about the royalty issue. For what was supposed to be great carnage the stock markets sure took it in stride. Ed actually watered down the report considerably and eliminated the natural gas slow down excuses. I'm leary about how he is going to renegotiate existing contracts since he decided against bringing in a tax. We'll see. If I had to scale this with the Oil companies on one end and the Royalty Report on the other I would say it falls closer to the Oil companies than the royalty report.

Buckhead · #**103** 10-27-2007, 03:38 PM

The Big Oil companies are not going anywhere and they know it.

All I have heard from them is a bunch of propaganda and fearmongering -which is typical.

If they want to take their money and go somewhere else...good riddance.

I'll even supply the cheese to go along with their whine.

They are even sniveling about natural gas prices being too low to make a buck, when they are going to be using up a lot of the gas in their own damn oilsands mines that have been constructed at the cost of the Alberta taxpayers.

There is no way the big oil companies are going to pull out of one of the largest oil plays on the planet considering Alberta and Canada's political stability and the fact that there is a guaranteed market for the product right next door (the US).

BOO F*&^ING HOO.

Walleyes · #**104** 10-27-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

The Big Oil companies are not going anywhere and they know it.

All I have heard from them is a bunch of propaganda and fearmongering -which is typical

And you know this because you sit on the board of directors for one of these companies rite ???

Quote:

If they want to take their money and go somewhere else...good riddance.

Yah good riddance eh,, poggy is probably nothing new to you anyways.. Social programs is what you survive on...

Quote:

There is no way the big oil companies are going to pull out of one of the largest oil plays on the planet considering Alberta and Canada's political stability and the fact that there is a guaranteed market for the product right next door (the US).

Like I said they have binding contracts with these companies which will hold up in any court. And it won't pass anyways once we have an election this spring and we get this pig farmer out of the way.. We will put a business man in there that has the intelligence to see what is happening it don't take much,, a kid with grade 10 economics can see what is happening...

You people don't get it do you... Its not what is going to happen !!! it is happening now.. Projects are all ready getting cancelled... So whats going to happen to that little plant job of yours when there is no demand for you're product ??? you will loose you're job as well... Oh yah that's rite you don't care,, there's always poggy..

#**105** 10-27-2007, 04:30 PM

So you must know Buck personally I take it Walleyes? If not I'm wondering how you can make statements like this?

Quote:

poggy is probably nothing new to you anyways.. Social programs is what you survive on...

Quote:

you will loose you're job as well... Oh yah that's rite you don't care,, there's always poggy..

Why do people feel the need to take personal shots at people that don't see things the same way?

Dick284 · #**106** 10-27-2007, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleyes

And you know this because you sit on the board of directors for one of these companies rite ???

Time to look at what you write there Walleyes.
So do you sit on a Board or are you the CEO?

Like the rest of us here I suspect your a working schmuk.

I dont know about all the doom and gloom, natural gas has tanked and that in it's self has spawned slowdowns in that sector, and no it does'nt relate to the Royalty issue.
Perto Can is going ahead with it's Tar sands project engineering, so there's a hmmm, for ya.

The contract thing is indeed interesting, and worth looking at when it comes up.
But in all reality if the level of activity goes back to 2003 levels or even 2001 levels, I dont think the world will end.
Lots of toys will be up for sale and a lot of people are gonna figure out that if you buy it on credit you probably dont need it that bad. As for $500K homes for a family of 4 well there in it's self is an example of life lived in excess.
Sorry to burst your bubble Walleyes but if you pizzed away this last boom, go cry somewhere else.

Jamie · #**107** 10-27-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote" And lets not forget one very important thing.. The province of A.B. has binding contracts with two of the largest oil producers in this Country.. These contracts are good till 2016, what are they going to do ??? rip up those contracts"

You are 100% correct. And even if there is a way out of these contracts I dont think the Gov of Alberta should try and renege on them.
It would make us look rather poorly.

Jamie

Walleyes · #**108** 10-27-2007, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Time to look at what you write there Walleyes.
So do you sit on a Board or are you the CEO

I do not sit on a board nor am I a ceo, But I do talk almost daily with my boss who does. And I do help at times draw up winter drilling programs and help plan some large projects. So I do know first hand what is happening.. I am not at all talking hot air but speaking through facts...

Quote:

So you must know Buck personally I take it Walleyes? If not I'm wondering how you can make statements like this?

Quote:
poggy is probably nothing new to you anyways.. Social programs is what you survive on...

Quote:
you will loose you're job as well... Oh yah that's rite you don't care,, there's always poggy..

Why do people feel the need to take personal shots at people that don't see things the same way?

I said these things because anyone that says good riddance to stable business and a stable economy and stable jobs for people obviously has no regard for such things and holds them very low in his priorities..

BEL · #**109** 10-27-2007, 05:19 PM

Jamie, I am surprised that you are even remotely impressed with Ed considering you are a Klein supporter. I hope you have noticed all the negative things said about Klein in the last few weeks. BEL

Buckhead · #**110** 10-27-2007, 08:49 PM

[QUOTE) I said these things because anyone that says good riddance to stable business and a stable economy and stable jobs for people obviously has no regard for such things and holds them very low in his priorities..[/QUOTE]

WALLEYES:

I am the one that said good riddance and I say it again.

I am tired of hearing empty threats from the oil companies at the same time as they bring in workers from other countries and get them killed - like the ones at the CNRL mine site.

I would certainly like it explained to me how the economy in Alberta can be called stable. Almost everything I buy has gone up by 50%, 100% and even more - just in the past 4 years. Need I even mention the high cost of housing. This is not stability. This is inflation running rampant - most of it caused by the willy-nilly development of the oilsands and the companies involved.

And for your information I have never drawn a dime in unemployment insurance or received any form of social assistance. When I was unable to find work in Alberta (which is my home) I worked in BC, Sask, Yukon and the NWT. I did what ever I had to to put food on the table and keep a roof over our heads - sometimes at jobs I absolutely hated. I doubt if you could say the same - judging by your attitude.

Just as much of my livelyhood depends on having a healthy economy in Alberta as anyone elses and I have extensive experience in the oil and gas fields of western Canada.

I just refuse to be held at gunpoint by a bunch of large corporations that are raking in multi-billions of dollars every year and are crying poverty.

This is called personal integrity - Mr. Walleyes.

Walleyes · #**111** 10-27-2007, 09:52 PM

When and where have any of these companies ever called poverty ??? They claim nothing but profits !!! Why is profit such a bad word ??? You know why because most people are jealous of it that's why.. Some in this world are smart enough to do what can be done to make money the rest want to live off of them that can.. This is what is happening here and now in this province.. I have chose in my life to live the oil patch life !!! I live away from home 250 days out of the year,, yes you heard it 250 days !!! for that I get payed plenty.. You know how much ??? about $250,000.00 a year so what ??? Do you want to live my life ???? You could not handle my life... I do it because it is my calling,, its what I am good at... Now people stand in front of me and tell me good riddance to you ass hole,, sorry that just doesnt work... I have been feeding this province off of my tax dollars way to long to be told I am not needed anymore.. Don't think so,, lets do a poll how many tax dollars have you been putting in over the last say 10 years ??? what ?? way to much ???.. I have personally paid no less then between 30,000.00 to last year 53,000.00 dollars in personal income tax.. Don't tell me about paying you're fare share.... But I am smart enough to know why that money has to be payed and where it goes..

I have one saying for you people that live on the lower scale of the income bracket !!! you chose you're life style and job not me,, don't make me pay for you're choices and I won't make you pay for mine...

BrainTan · #**112** 10-27-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleyes

I have one saying for you people that live on the lower scale of the income bracket !!! you chose you're life style and job not me,, don't make me pay for you're choices and I won't make you pay for mine...

That seriously has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Why don't you go say that to the little guy that makes the food to put in your eccentric belly. You are nothing without them, and they do just fine without you! Once again the spoiled rotten can't fathom the reality that not everyones world revolves around what kind of vehicle is parked in their driveway, or whether they are "high society" doing everything in their power to help the poor unfortunate low lifes (that don't clear some ridiculously overpriced income) by paying their taxes.

The way I see it is that you are clearly not ready to give up your eccentric lifestyle because your too used to the imaginary money that rules you!

BrainTan · #**113** 10-27-2007, 10:09 PM

I should add that yes I chose my lifestyle of working minimum wage, it was either that or starve to F@#$ing death. A concept the elite can't fathom because their to busy counting their crack money!

TreeGuy · #**114** 10-27-2007, 10:20 PM

OK, its time to take a step back and analyze the situation. Enough hysteria.

Walleyes, a while back when I was asking for fishing advice, you PM'd my you number because you wanted to give your expertise to a rookie. I appreciated your advice. Now its my turn to repay the favour.

Walleyes, I have an honors degree in economics from the top undergraduate university in Canada, and I have followed this situation closely.

If you are working for one of the smaller players, you might be in a bit of a bind. Otherwise, I really believe that it's going to be ok. You have to trust me on this.

On the first day, the markets only lost about 0.5%. That's good, and it is a direct result of how Stelmach et all handled the situation. Markets HATE uncertainty, and now they know what's going to happen in a year from now. They have time to factor the added costs into their bottem line. This eases any doubts in the minds of investors and keeps things stable. Petro Canada has just announced that they will maintain their $15b oilsands project, and they are not the only one.

We have the second largest proven oil reserve on Earth. We are about the safest and most politically stable environment also. Oil will close Monday over $92/b, and will close Friday over $100/b. They royalty increases are linked to the commodity price, so EVERYONE will keep making money. If a company cannot turn a profit at $90/b, then they have no business being in the business. Period.

There are easier places in the world to physically bring the crude to the surface, but there are so many other factors involved. ie Oil produced in the middle east still has to get here. As a driller, the middle east stuff (as one example) is easy physically. Everything else is tough......I'm not sure what Blackwater charges these days, but I'm sure it's alot.

Then there is the BC/Sask. argument. Not quite as easy as its made out to be. Alot of infastructure needs to be developed first. The oil sands needs the commuity of FT. Mac., not something set up overnight. Then BC has its rocks and 'bumps'. The rhetoric must be tempered.

Stelmach will win the next election as he took a middle of the road approach. kevin taft is far more hardline, and God help us all if brian mason of the ndp dets in! As an educated voter, Stelmach is the only safe choice. In the back of my 'conspiracy theorist' mind, I believe this move is aimed at maximizing oil revenue on a provincial level prior to a move by the feds motivated by Koyoto. Does Alberta get it, or do the feds.

Anyway, Walleyes, you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers, and I really hope that this doesn't screw you. However, I really believe that you'll be alright. Just wait and see man! Ya gotta trust me on this one. It's going to be ok.

Tree

Walleyes · #**115** 10-27-2007, 10:24 PM

And now we are really starting to bring out the truth in all this.. Do you people hear you're selves..( All should be equal regardless of will power or drive or education or knowledge ) you are all G@d D$$$m communist's just listen to what you are saying... Big money is bad,, I want more "for their work",, The people have spoken,, we want our share regardless of what I do I want an equal share..

If you want a piece of the pie,, go ahead get it !! trust me its out there... But you have to trust you're self enough to get it.. Or better yet you have to trust the old lady,, you might have to leave er to the neighbor for a night or two.

Buckhead · #**116** 10-27-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleyes

And now we are really starting to bring out the truth in all this.. Do you people hear you're selves..( All should be equal regardless of will power or drive or education or knowledge ) you are all G@d D$$$m communist's just listen to what you are saying... Big money is bad,, I want more "for their work",, The people have spoken,, we want our share regardless of what I do I want an equal share..

If you want a piece of the pie,, go ahead get it !! trust me its out there... But you have to trust you're self enough to get it.. Or better yet you have to trust the old lady,, you might have to leave er to the neighbor for night or two.

You sir are a total moron - and you are full of sh&t!!!!!!!!

It's either that or you are just a young punk that hasn't had one of the older guys in the patch take you out back and teach you some manners yet.

Walleyes · #**117** 10-27-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walleyes
And now we are really starting to bring out the truth in all this.. Do you people hear you're selves..( All should be equal regardless of will power or drive or education or knowledge ) you are all G@d D$$$m communist's just listen to what you are saying... Big money is bad,, I want more "for their work",, The people have spoken,, we want our share regardless of what I do I want an equal share..

If you want a piece of the pie,, go ahead get it !! trust me its out there... But you have to trust you're self enough to get it.. Or better yet you have to trust the old lady,, you might have to leave er to the neighbor for night or two.

You sir are a total moron - and you are full of sh&t!!!!!!!!

Well that's about the intelligence I was expecting.. Can you sign an x on the lign for the check please..

bullwinkle · #**118** 10-27-2007, 11:05 PM

$250,000 is apretty average oilpatch income there walleyes...nothing to gloat about.Sounds to me like you must have found a stranger on your mattress after your last hitch.

Walleyes · #**119** 10-27-2007, 11:13 PM

Was not gloating,, just stating facts for a debate that thus far on this board has been left to the leftest to control...

P.S. have been happily married to my oil patch girl for 21 years now thx very much...

Boss442 · #**120** 10-28-2007, 01:19 AM

I don't personally work in the patch but my son and son in law do. I have always been amazed that neither of them have any education but make between $100.000 & $150.000 a year (when things are going good) and still at time's I get a call from them needing to borrow money? I hope when all is said and done that thier not left with thier @icks in thier hands with no money and no education and won't work for anything less than $30.00hr when in reality they should not be making much more than min wage. "Then maybe this province will get back to normal" instead of this over inflated economy that the oil patch has created!!