Calf moose hunt. CEASE AND DESIST

[Redneckrob]

Here is a copy of a letter I just sent to our minister. hopefully she is the right one.!!

To the honourable Dianna McQueen;

I am writing you today to express my concern over the calf moose hunts that our province is still conducting. It grieves me that we are still doing this for several reasons which I will discuss in this email. First and foremost though let me say that I am an avid (my wife would say obsessed) big game hunter but am also a caring and passionate conservationist who supports Ducks unlimited and donates yearly to various conservation causes.

In 2012 the government handed out 1759 calf moose tags. This is the easiest tag to fill and puts some good meat in a hunters freezer. However because it is such an easy tag to fill, i feel there are a lot of mediocre hunters that go after this tag. That is not to say that some good hunters don't get it too. I know a lot of people who apply for this draw every year and get it. Every year approx 80% of them fill their tags. If that number is accurate everywhere that means that we are harvesting approximately 1400 calf moose every year. Now for arguments sake lets say I am high on my estimate and we are killing 1000 calves yearly. Logically that means that we are killing 500 bulls and 500 cows.

I know that in many areas where there are calf moose draws the bull to cow ratio is low. That is because we kill so many of the bull calves before they can ever get a set of antlers let alone reach maturity. Then we exclusively hunt the bulls that have antlers in most WMU's. This is a good way to end up with a bad bull to cow ratio.

The biologists will say that many of those calves will die in the winter anyway. Well they certainly have not been given a chance to survive. There is no way to predict what winter is going to be like and what the tick population is going to be like in any given year, and moreover what the calf mortality rate is going to be. However if it is a bad year for either of those factors is it not better to have 1759 more calf moose to try to survive it?

In stead of handing out so many calf moose tags put in a very limited number of Cow moose tags in these zones. Obviously the population can take the 500 we are killing per annum before they reach sexual maturity . Most hunters will not shoot a cow moose if she has a calf and this will allow those hunters who need the easy tags an opportunity and will not decimate the bull population before they even get a set of antlers.

I implore you to please stop the calf moose hunting in our province and let these animals at least have a chance to survive and become a healthy breeding stock of a great renewable resources.

Thank you for your consideration

[BigJon]

You realize calf moose hunts exist to meet management objectives, right? I.E./ cap or lower moose numbers. I don't necessarily agree with the logic behind lowering moose numbers in a few specific WMUs but that is another topic.

Your point on handing out a small amount of cow tags instead has too many assumptions in it. You only assume that holders of the tag would target a cow without a calf...some may, some may not. For those that do, who is to say the calf isn't out of sight somewhere?

I do agree that calf hunts do reduce the number of huntable bulls...but I can't say I am bothered by it.


I think hunters would be better served by people sending letters to Premiers/Ministers speaking to habitat protection and conservation rather than some tags.

[Smokinyotes]

Get rid of all the non res tags, close the cow and calf seasons. Poison the wolves, shoot the bears. In a few years there would probably be enough bulls for Albertans to hunt. Jmho.

[jryley]

In my opinion there are about 500 other much more important conservation issues than calf moose tags.

One thing that chaps my rear is the statement that 'novice' hunters routinely target calf moose. Who cares? So youre saying you need to have x amount of years on your resume before you should be allowed to hunt moose? that's idiotic.

[Redneckrob]

who said novice? I said mediocre. If you are being truthful you know there is a high percentage of people who apply for this tag who never want to get out of their pick up until after they have shot something. I never said anything of the sort of having any number of years experience to hunt anything. Don't put words in others mouths. That is idiotic

[Couleestalker]

Originally Posted by Redneckrob

In stead of handing out so many calf moose tags put in a very limited number of Cow moose tags in these zones. Obviously the population can take the 500 we are killing per annum before they reach sexual maturity . Most hunters will not shoot a cow moose if she has a calf and this will allow those hunters who need the easy tags an opportunity and will not decimate the bull population before they even get a set of antlers.

There is no such thing as a cow tag, on Antlerless. Therefore the hunter may shoot a calf anyway. Most hunters may not shoot a cow with a calf but I would dare to say that he would take the calf with his antlerless tag.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Redneckrob

who said novice? I said mediocre. If you are being truthful you know there is a high percentage of people who apply for this tag who never want to get out of their pick up until after they have shot something. I never said anything of the sort of having any number of years experience to hunt anything. Don't put words in others mouths. That is idiotic

and what is it that makes you more than mediocre?

[Lefty-Canuck]

What about the large two year old calves? A calf is a calf even if it is two.....someone here seems to think

Ps....I am joking, a two year old calf is no longer a calf....

LC

[pottymouth]

When using numbers, try to stick to the facts.

One mature cow will produce more calves, than a calf, who may never reach maturity.... Perhaps read up on some literature and research on the harvest of yearling animals.... Don't let personal ethics get involved.

I didn't realize that mediocre hunter were a huge problem..... I like to know where you stand up against some of the guys on this site?

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

What about the large two year old calves? A calf is a calf even if it is two.....someone here seems to think

Ps....I am joking, a two year old calf is no longer a calf....

LC

Bwahahahah, Rhino81 will never live that down....2 yr old calf...lmao

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by Couleestalker

There is no such thing as a cow tag, on Antlerless.

There are a few wmu's that are "calf special licenese", 359,360,505,510,523,526,527

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

When using numbers, try to stick to the facts.

One mature cow will produce more calves, than a calf, who may never reach maturity.... Perhaps read up on some literature and research on the harvest of yearling animals.... Don't let personal ethics get involved.

I didn't realize that mediocre hunter were a huge problem..... I like to know where you stand up against some of the guys on this site?

Agreed!!

Also to the OP does all this stem from you wanting more antlered moose tags to achieve a "better bull to cow ratio"? Do you see many cows without calves in the areas you hunt?

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by Huntnut

There are a couple of wmu's that are "calf only".

True and I don't think Coulee was saying any different he is saying that in Alberta we use the definition of antlered (any animal with more than four inches of antler) and antlerless (any animal with less than four inches of antler) and as you stated we also use calf only.

His point is that in a zone that has an antlerless season is that calves also fall under this by definition.
There is no zone in Alberta that has an antlerless and a calf season due to this.

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

True and I don't think Coulee was saying any different he is saying that in Alberta we use the definition of antlered (any animal with more than four inches of antler) and antlerless (any animal with less than four inches of antler) and as you stated we also use calf only.

His point is that in a zone that has an antlerless season is that calves also fall under this by definition.
There is no zone in Alberta that has an antlerless and a calf season due to this.

You're right-my bad

[DCse7en]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

Get rid of all the non res tags, close the cow and calf seasons. Poison the wolves, shoot the bears. In a few years there would probably be enough bulls for Albertans to hunt. Jmho.

Alberta....the moose ranch!

[Stonegoat]

Wow,

I am no longer an Albertan, but am still embarrassed by your email to the Minister. Your email will be politely responded to, and then deleted and forgotten.

Please people, if you're going to correspond with government/industry, please get your facts straight, and at least try to sound educated.

[jryley]

Originally Posted by Redneckrob

who said novice? I said mediocre. If you are being truthful you know there is a high percentage of people who apply for this tag who never want to get out of their pick up until after they have shot something. I never said anything of the sort of having any number of years experience to hunt anything. Don't put words in others mouths. That is idiotic

And so what if they road hunt? Road hunting definitely isn't my thing but who cares? My old man physically can only pretty much road hunt now and id put him up skill wise to anyone on here. I still have no idea what bearing being 'mediocre' hunter has on anything related to getting any sort of tag. If first year hunter john doe lucks out and gets drawn for moose why shouldn't he be able to use that tag?

Im not following you here. please clarify.

[TBark]

Don't really feel the calf hunt has a place in the 300's zones, it likely serves it's management purpose in the 500 zones.
Our group has one calf moose tag in WMU 360 every year, and never shot one.
We stick to the same area in Snipe Lake area.
We can't speak for the whole zone, but we are just not seeing many calves.
Over all moose / bulls and cows, are somewhat low compared to past years too.

TBark

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Redneckrob

who said novice? I said mediocre. If you are being truthful you know there is a high percentage of people who apply for this tag who never want to get out of their pick up until after they have shot something. I never said anything of the sort of having any number of years experience to hunt anything. Don't put words in others mouths. That is idiotic

So a high percentage of people who take calves do it illegally from their truck. Is that right? Not putting words in your mouth. You said it. Whether intentional by you or not, your letter and post suggests (strongly) a personal condescension towards people who don't hunt or think like you do. Folks are picking up on that anyway. Perhaps just stick to a scientific defence of your postion instead.

[heretohunt]

First of all welcome to the forum redneckrob. It is cool that you let people in the government know that hunters are here and we care about conservation. In the perfect world you will get a response from a biologist explaining their science justifying the calf hunt. The more likely thing is that it may make someone look into their reasoning, and maybe see if their plan(whatever it is) is working.
Your letter does sound like the agenda of a trophy hunter and you need to consider that there are hunters of all levels and purposes out there.
Perhaps you see something going on in your zone and think that something can be done to make a positive change? Weather we agree or not hunters writing well though out letters and being active is better than just complaining on a forum.
Just my opinion.

[whiskybaron]

maybe you should stop shooting bulls then there would be more?

[Unregistered user]

Wendy's back at it.

[jbrow397]

A true conservationist is as educated as a biologist, but didn't bother spending money for a degree.

Sorry to be a jerk, but there were too many feelings in that letter. Like others have mentioned there is actually some science behind taking a calf rather than the cow.

You are not wrong in regards to the possibilty of taking away potential bulls and cows but as mentioned previously, calves birth zero calves. Bulls and cows breed calves as long as they are alive.

There is lots of effort that goes into balancing the numbers. Does the system maybe need some improvement? sure, but who is going to pay for it? Maybe instead of telling the government to rescue our needs, you could inject yourself into the system and fix it within?

Every time a trophy bull is taken, his superior genes are removed from the pool. So whats worse for the population, a calf that is essentially a blank slate that may not survive a winter, being taken; or a superior bull that we know can play his part in breeding healthy, superior calves? Not saying we shouldnt hunt trphy bulls, I am just pointing out a slip in the logic regarding what is potentially harmful to the species based soley on opinion.

Also, as others have said. This 'issue' is about 987 on the list of conservation problems.

[leeaspell]

And let's not even get started on the newfies shooting all the calves up here hahaha

[candutch]

Originally Posted by heretohunt

First of all welcome to the forum redneckrob. It is cool that you let people in the government know that hunters are here and we care about conservation. In the perfect world you will get a response from a biologist explaining their science justifying the calf hunt. The more likely thing is that it may make someone look into their reasoning, and maybe see if their plan(whatever it is) is working.
Your letter does sound like the agenda of a trophy hunter and you need to consider that there are hunters of all levels and purposes out there.
Perhaps you see something going on in your zone and think that something can be done to make a positive change? Weather we agree or not hunters writing well though out letters and being active is better than just complaining on a forum.
Just my opinion.

X2

[diamond k]

Originally Posted by candutch

X2

Calf mortality rates are way higher than cow/Bull rates. The calf hunt is there to allow for an opportunity without as severly impacting the demgraphics. If we shoot all the cows and the calves die to winter, preditation or a bunch of other factors the rates will drop alot faster. I am not a huge proponent of the calf hunt in some WMU's but would rather see that than a cow harvest.

[Don K]

Originally Posted by diamond k

Calf mortality rates are way higher than cow/Bull rates. The calf hunt is there to allow for an opportunity without as severly impacting the demgraphics. If we shoot all the cows and the calves die to winter, preditation or a bunch of other factors the rates will drop alot faster. I am not a huge proponent of the calf hunt in some WMU's but would rather see that than a cow harvest.

X2
Way better to take a calf than a cow... Odds are the cow will make it through and have another calf (or 2) in the spring. An orphaned calf has an uphill climb through a winter.

[bird_dog]

Hmm I not even mediocre, I plain suck, I guess now I know the tag to go after. Thank you!

[Icatchfish]

You do know not all people hunt for trophies and some people eat the meat. A calf moose is enough for a small family . I have no use for a 500 pound moose in my freezer.
If u want big animals then hunt the hard areas where most people don't venture and u should "statistically" find ur moose

[hunterfisher]

I look at it this way. Tags are made available for every WMU in the quantities or each sex and species for conservation. If there is a low bull count (estimate) the tag numbers would go down to rectify any decrease in population. Every person pays each year to help in the study of wildlife death/birth numbers etc... Put the faith in the system for what its worth. You can take whatever sex or species you want as long as its by the books.
Thats my 2 cents anyways