Browning SA-22

[Flieguy]

Who else owns one? It's my favorite gun hands down. First rimfire I ever bought, I love the weight and balance, love the magazine, love that it'll feed anything you put in it, love the easy takedown feature, the accuracy is awesome, and the fit and finish is way better than all my friends' cheaper 22s.

Who else is in the fan club?
Anyone know how the norinco knockoffs stack up?

[wwbirds]

Only the Belgium ones and prefer the Grade 2 and 3's and even found a wheel sight model recently from 1956 in great shape.

[gtr]

I have two that I have held onto . One made in 1961 and the other in 1981.I prefer the Japanese made models over the Belgium produced ones. Lots of fun to shoot , but the grade 1V model does not get out as often as it should . I have mounts for scopes but can't bring myself to try one. LOL.

[wwbirds]

Think the function of the japanese models is exactly the same as the Belgium ones. The only reason I started collecting the Belgium ones is the fact that the Belgium engravers were true artists doing hand engraving while the japanese guns were acid engraved. If you see enough Belgium models you will gain an appreciation for the carvings of the dogs, animals and birds. The Belgium artists knew what pointers, pheasants and ducks looked like and even the gophers and squirrels on the Grade 2's actually looked like gophers and squirrels.
You could tell the japanese engravers had never seen a hunting dog or pheasant as many of their hunting dogs looked like greyhounds, their pheasants looked similar to peacocks and I even saw a japanese grade 2 where the gopher and squirrel looked like a weasel/mink.
Seen hundreds if not more since 1984 and from everything I have seen the function is exactly the same Belgium or Japanese but "the functional art" ended in 1973 when production moved to Japan.

[Flieguy]

Mine is a japanese grade 1. Just scroll engraving, no fancy gold critter inlays. I have a scope mounted on mine, but I've been toying with the idea of replacing it with a peep sight.

I'm thinking about dropping my tax return on a BL-22

[gtr]

No better place to drop your refund than on a Browning lever . LOL I have a few.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

I know this is an old thread but looking for a grade 2 wth the gopher scene.

[wwbirds]

last one I saw for sale was in about 1993. Grade 2 is probably more rare than grade 3. If you had money you bought grade 3 and if not grade 1. Grade 2 seems to be rarer than grade 3

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

last one I saw for sale was in about 1993. Grade 2 is probably more rare than grade 3. If you had money you bought grade 3 and if not grade 1. Grade 2 seems to be rarer than grade 3

There was a grade 3 for sale on gun nutz about a month ago and I think that thing went for around $4000.00....you might be richer than you think if you have a few of them collected...I want the Grade 6 blued version as a collectable...I know Epps has one for sale however higher priorities in life keep trumping the sa22 purchase.

[wwbirds]

Belgium did not make a grade 6 so it Is probably Japanese. Dont collect jap one for although they function just fine the engraving looks like they have never seen a gamebird or hunting dog. Few I have seen pheasants looked like peacocks and pointers look like greyhounds. Gophers looked like weasels. I watch cgn all the time and haven't seen a grade 3 belgium in 10 years again prob jap rifle

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[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Belgium did not make a grade 6 so it Is probably Japanese. Dont collect jap one for although they function just fine the engraving looks like they have never seen a gamebird or hunting dog. Few I have seen pheasants looked like peacocks and pointers look like greyhounds. Gophers looked like weasels. I watch cgn all the time and haven't seen a grade 3 belgium in 10 years again prob jap rifle

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No it was Belgium grade 3 on gun nutz ..100%..The grade 6 I’m talking about is Jap for sure...fresh outta the factory...lol..it’s the blued receiver with gold emblems if I remember correct....I’ve never seen one in hand so I’ll take your word about the engraving.

[wwbirds]

I have collected them since 1984 so I am more than a little surprised that I would miss one on cgn. I have many people that know my interest and would give me a heads up if they noticed one. Homer tyler was a good friend and world authority on the Belgium browning. 22 so try and find a used copy of one of his books if they interest you. Like anything there are a lot of fraudulent copies circulating so the details are very important

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[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

I have collected them since 1984 so I am more than a little surprised that I would miss one on cgn. I have many people that know my interest and would give me a heads up if they noticed one. Homer tyler was a good friend and world authority on the Belgium browning. 22 so try and find a used copy of one of his books if they interest you. Like anything there are a lot of fraudulent copies circulating so the details are very important

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I wish...my dad said my grandpa (moms dad) had a grade 3 Belgium sa22 that he even shot gophers with...too bad he sold it years ago,my dad still talks about how nice it was...grade 6 with the gold emblems goes for around $1800 which is still very pricey for a 22lr...maybe should buy it now before it’s classified as a banned assault weapon

I’ll definitely look for the book...thanks!

[wwbirds]

The verified true grade 3 belgium 22's were going for about $3000 usd 20 years ago. I see us prices regularly looking for $6000. Now. The rarest engraver was Marie cortis who was only female engraver in 1950,s. Some of the best engraving I have ever seen so comparable to masters vranken and Mueller. Dealer in Chicago has a lightly used cortis he is asking $12000 for which is the price for vranken and Mueller in usa right now

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[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

The verified true grade 3 belgium 22's were going for about $3000 usd 20 years ago. I see us prices regularly looking for $6000. Now. The rarest engraver was Marie cortis who was only female engraver in 1950,s. Some of the best engraving I have ever seen so comparable to masters vranken and Mueller. Dealer in Chicago has a lightly used cortis he is asking $12000 for which is the price for vranken and Mueller in usa right now

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Oh wow!!! My dad even said that my grandpas had gold in it however not one sa22 grade 3 I ever saw a picture of had gold??

it also was in a fancy leather case according to dad much like a best SxS shotgun.

My factory fresh grade 6 sounds like a bargain now...lol however I know it’s not even close to the same.

Your lucky to have such guns.

[wwbirds]

remember my dad telling me to buy gold at $32. an ounce
If you ordered a custom SA22 in late 50's or early 60's you could get gold inlay for an extra $150-200. Since that is how much my dad made in a month in southern Ontario I am sure none were ordered by my family. I still have many of the Browning catalogues from the 50's 60's and 70's as part of my collection.

The original leather luggage case with a plastic insert in handle was made by a famous luggage company (Hartman?) for Browning. the last one I saw change hands went for $400 USD. There have been 4 or 5 other models of leather vinyl and naugahyde that now go for $150 -$250. cad
Engraving in Belgium was piece work so engravers took a lot home to work on them. The really good engraving was probably signed by the Master engraver in the shop regardless of who did the work. Having a master engraver sign the rifle or shotgun probably added $3-500 to the price of the gun so the day to day engravers who made $75 to $150 a gun were probably glad to give up their art work for an extra $50.

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

remember my dad telling me to buy gold at $32. an ounce
If you ordered a custom SA22 in late 50's or early 60's you could get gold inlay for an extra $150-200. Since that is how much my dad made in a month in southern Ontario I am sure none were ordered by my family. I still have many of the Browning catalogues from the 50's 60's and 70's as part of my collection.

The original leather luggage case with a plastic insert in handle was made by a famous luggage company (Hartman?) for Browning. the last one I saw change hands went for $400 USD. There have been 4 or 5 other models of leather vinyl and naugahyde that now go for $150 -$250. cad
Engraving in Belgium was piece work so engravers took a lot home to work on them. The really good engraving was probably signed by the Master engraver in the shop regardless of who did the work. Having a master engraver sign the rifle or shotgun probably added $3-500 to the price of the gun so the day to day engravers who made $75 to $150 a gun were probably glad to give up their art work for an extra $50.

Interesting history especially with the forgeing of the more famous engravers signatures...I’m starting to think this SA 22 grandpa once had was pretty special and In fact he really liked gold as he had a fair amount of it in jewelry which he didn’t sell that my mom now has...

to bad my dad told me about this gun of his after he passed away.he was a farmer but not much of a hunter or gun guy and he never even mentioned this rifle to me once when he was alive....dam!

[wwbirds]

The lesser engravers very willingly allowed the master engraver to sign their work to get the bonus money. It was probably very seldom that a lesser engraver would make something the master would want to sign. to my knowledge the practice continues today for lesser engravers are discouraged from signing their work. It allows the master engraver to have a blank canvas if they so chose. I know of 2 current engravers who have had masters appropriate their work even within the last 20 years.
The other fraud that does occur is current (lesser) engravers try to copy the style of a famous engraver like Vrancken or Mueller and sign those names. Often they do it on rifles or shotguns with serial numbers that hadnt been used yet before the Masters died. I am aware of 1 Mueller copy that was made in the 1990's althogh he died in 1961? They will also take a grade 1 and try to make it look like a grade 3 by doing intricate engraving and coin finish but the serial number positioning is not correct for the coin finish grade 3's pre 73 period that the Belgium engravers operated during.

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

The lesser engravers very willingly allowed the master engraver to sign their work to get the bonus money. It was probably very seldom that a lesser engraver would make something the master would want to sign. to my knowledge the practice continues today for lesser engravers are discouraged from signing their work. It allows the master engraver to have a blank canvas if they so chose. I know of 2 current engravers who have had masters appropriate their work even within the last 20 years.
The other fraud that does occur is current (lesser) engravers try to copy the style of a famous engraver like Vrancken or Mueller and sign those names. Often they do it on rifles or shotguns with serial numbers that hadnt been used yet before the Masters died. I am aware of 1 Mueller copy that was made in the 1990's althogh he died in 1961? They will also take a grade 1 and try to make it look like a grade 3 by doing intricate engraving and coin finish but the serial number positioning is not correct for the coin finish grade 3's pre 73 period that the Belgium engravers operated during.

I understand what you meant and forged signature was just a wrong use of words on my part...I never knew the SA22 had such a history...wow..Feel like I almost have to buy one now...lol

[whitetail Junkie]

Been looking @ lots of them online and can clearly see the difference in engraving between the Belgium’s and Japan versions...Japan version the animals look cartoonish.

The factory fresh Grade 6 guns gold dog head on the top of the receivers look horrid in my opinion however the other 4 gold animals to me look ok...except for maybe the squirrel in front of the coyote.

There is a stunning custom Belgium on guns international for about 6.5K usd...so nice.

Unless I can find a beat up grade 2 or 3 Belgium for a decent price I think a NIB grade 6 it will be....

another option is to go really crazy and buy a NIB grade 1 and send it in for engraving in Quebec and get some very fancy walnut on it.

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Think the function of the japanese models is exactly the same as the Belgium ones. The only reason I started collecting the Belgium ones is the fact that the Belgium engravers were true artists doing hand engraving while the japanese guns were acid engraved. If you see enough Belgium models you will gain an appreciation for the carvings of the dogs, animals and birds. The Belgium artists knew what pointers, pheasants and ducks looked like and even the gophers and squirrels on the Grade 2's actually looked like gophers and squirrels.
You could tell the japanese engravers had never seen a hunting dog or pheasant as many of their hunting dogs looked like greyhounds, their pheasants looked similar to peacocks and I even saw a japanese grade 2 where the gopher and squirrel looked like a weasel/mink.
Seen hundreds if not more since 1984 and from everything I have seen the function is exactly the same Belgium or Japanese but "the functional art" ended in 1973 when production moved to Japan.

You ever take one apart before? Is it Fairly simple to remove the butt stock off the receiver and forend off the barrel?

What do you think would be a fair price for a well used..(fair condition) grade 3 Belgium?

[wwbirds]

but they break at the barrel so receiver stays with stock and forestock stays with barrel. lever release on receiver if not recessed has caused a lot of cracked tangs by people trying to break down not knowing what they are doing or twisting the wrong direction. Knurled nut for taking up slack in attachment can be a pain so I never break any of mine down. Paul the Belgium trained engraver for Christian in Quebec city is by far the best engraver I have ever seen including the masters from Belgium. A friend had him engrave a picture of his yellow lab in a high end shotgun and the dog expression is so good to be recognizable to those of us who know this dog.
PM sent
Rob

[TMS]

I have a Belgium made one with scroll type engraving,looks nice but not fancy like the animal scenes etc.Great handling little rabbit gun with open sights.I love the light weight and slim design.I use it more than my Gevarm,which is a great working gun as well but is a bit different in the handling department.
I put a scope on the Gevarm but have resisted mounting one on the SA.22 because the rear sight would have to be removed for the scope mount.
I have seen discussion on several sites,including AO,regarding the safety on the Gevarm.I find myself just never opening the bolt until I am ready to shoot.Since there is never a shell in the chamber until the bolt is pulled open and the trigger squeezed it is impossible for it to fire accidently.
I also,occasionally,use my Winchester model 1890 pump in.22short for plinking or pest control.It's a nice little gun with a classic look,(takedown with octagon barrel and external hammer),but impracticle at distance.
I got a bit off track here,with talk of the other guns,but I guess my point is that you really can't go wrong with the Browning SA.22,just seems well designed and fun to use.