Hunting Calibers

Nice cupboard work cat

[kbjohn]

win pre 64 .264win mag

Wow, and I thought I was the only pre 64...264 mag owner on here. It definitely wasn't the most accurate calibre that Winchester made but it's a classic. I don't seem to shoot mine much any more but I'd never part with it. It's responsible for two rams and a ton of other game. Not sure it's a calibre I'd recommend to anyone these days though. A 7mm STW kind of took the place of mine.

[kbjohn]

Sheephunter I your right 264 is crap you should sell me yours just to get rid of it send me a price so you can make some room in your cabnet for a new rifle

LOL...good try but there is way to much sentimental attachment to the old girl. I still have a few slots in the safe for new rifles........

[kbjohn]

One can only try

Can't blame ya....it is an awesome gun. You still got the orininal wood stock on yours. I put a fibreglass stock on mine 20 years ago and now wish I didn't but it did serve me well for many years. It was actually the first gun I ever owned!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by 50BMG

Nice cupboard work cat

The draws are custom cut to hold dies and bullets, with bigger ones down below for brass, etc
The walls of the gun room are T&G knotty pine, with western maple flooring.
sorry for the hijack!
no 264 Win mags at the moment, but there have been in there.
Got about 4 different rifles in 6.5 at the moment however.....
Cat

[kbjohn]

sheephunter does your 264 have the 26" barrel

Yes it does...don't think the .264 came in a shorter barrel length did it?

[kbjohn]

They made it in a 24 but is was nfg thats what sunk the 264. 24" was made for the sheep hunters they were complaining about the weight of the gun but the ballistics went to pot and then the 7mm can out which was a hugly popular even though it was half the gun. I would buy every pre 64 264 I could find with a 26" barrel. You won,t find a better weapon for north american big game. I even took the heads off of some ruffys with it in the past.

I gotta say mine, like many I've read about, is not the most accurate rifle in the world. It's certainly accurate enough for big game hunting but it doesn't come close to shooting as well as my 7mm STW. For its time, it was one super hot calibre but not sure I'd buy another one with the other calibre choices available today....not to mention to pooor bullet selection for the 264. I've got some 100-grain loads for it though. Man do they sizzle.

Trying to find some reference to pre 64 model 70s with a 24" barrel but can't. I know they offered it in a 24" barrel post 64. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places. I gotta say that accuracy goes away after a couple shots too. Man that barrel warms up fast. They were notorious for short life on their barrels with some being shot out in as little as 500 rounds. I doubt you'd find a pre 64 with an original barrel with much accuracy left in it. But ya never know.

Well there you go...learned something today...they brought out the Featherweight with the 24" barrel in 1961.

[kbjohn]

you are correct it was post 64 in the 24" barrel thats when 264 was no more

Not sure when Winchester stopped offering the .264 in the Model 70 but I can remember them still being available in the 80s and possibly 90s. There is much speculation as to its downfall. Some blame the short barrel, some blame O'connor promoting the .270 like he did but in truth, I think it was a great calibre for its time but calibres like the 7mm offered superior accuracy, a superior bullet selection and increased barrel life. If you were a reloader, there were some good loads for the .264 but the off the shelf stuff was crap and still is.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I gotta say mine, like many I've read about, is not the most accurate rifle in the world. It's certainly accurate enough for big game hunting but it doesn't come close to shooting as well as my 7mm STW. For its time, it was one super hot calibre but not sure I'd buy another one with the other calibre choices available today....not to mention to pooor bullet selection for the 264. I've got some 100-grain loads for it though. Man do they sizzle.

Trying to find some reference to pre 64 model 70s with a 24" barrel but can't. I know they offered it in a 24" barrel post 64. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places. I gotta say that accuracy goes away after a couple shots too. Man that barrel warms up fast. They were notorious for short life on their barrels with some being shot out in as little as 500 rounds. I doubt you'd find a pre 64 with an original barrel with much accuracy left in it. But ya never know.

Sheephunter,
Yup, the pre '64 was offered in a 24" but the public seemed to want a 26" and of course the cries of barrel erosion brought on the stainless barrel.

But by then, it's reputation had already suffered to the point that it could not be repaired.
the .264 actually is no harder on a hunting barrel than most of the over-bore style cartridges. heat it up and a barrel can wash out pretty fast, doesn't mean it won't kill critters though.
When I rechambered my 6.5WSM to WSSM Mick McPhee had to cut a full 4" off the shank it was so eroded.
It would still hit clays at 500 meters from the bench however.
however, shooters and hunters are fickle people, and hearsay can sink a rifle or cartridge big time.
Just listen to some of the opinions expressed by those that have never shot the caliber or rifle in question!

I always thought us 6.5 shooters had LOTS of bullet choices...
Cat

I always thought us 6.5 shooters had LOTS of bullet choices...
Cat

If you reloaded yup but factory loads for the .264 offered the absolute cheapest bullets possible. Considering most hunters are not reloaders, it's not much wonder Winchester lost the battle with the .264. Having shot quite literally close to 100 animals with the .264 mag with both handloads and factory ammo.....I can attest to the fact that Power Point bullets are crap when fired out of this calibre. That from someone who has shot the calibre in question for nye on 35 years.

This gun was not a one-inch shooter from the factory and in most cases it wasn't a two inch shooter and that ain't going to break many clays at 500 metres. It was a great calibre and rifle for its time.

[catnthehat]

sorry,I forget about the factory stuff all the time!
Yup, the 140's out of the box are crap for sure!

Funny, some guys get bent out of shape when they bench their hunting rifles,
but in reality, a 2MOA rifle will getrdun when it is needed !
Cat

[Deerme]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Okay, I have to ask.....what part of its look don't you like??

I'm another fan of the '06, and I enjoy mine pump-action style.
From 50 grn Accelerators to 180 grn or more it's a very versatile caliber - and the more popular bullet weights can be found almost anywhere.

Originally Posted by Deerme

I'm another fan of the '06, and I enjoy mine pump-action style.
From 50 grn Accelerators to 180 grn or more it's a very versatile caliber - and the more popular bullet weights can be found almost anywhere.

My first big game animal was a moose..taken with...

Yeah you guessed it,a winchester model 70 in .30-06.

A forty yard shot using 220 gr. corlokt reminington ammo..

That was in my bigger bullets are better faze...

I have since learned..

[John Spartan]

Returning to the original question, I'd have to say anything from 6.5x55 Swedish on up to 8mm Mauser would fit the bill with handloaded ammo or factory ammo that met the requirement.

Just pick any chambering in this range, practice with it a lot, and with proper bullets and proper placement you will be good to go.

[Prdtrgttr]

Wow, I can tell this is a real passion for some of you, thanks for all the responses. Not sure I am any further ahead than when I started, but it's been cool reading everyone's ideas.

[roger]

my fav is the 257wby, felt recoil is les than a 270win. ultra flat traj.
its only fault is the price per factory round ($70 for 20) and even factory brass is $40 for 20, or the fact that only a few machines are drilled to the round or hardly any store carries rounds on the shelf, or its bbl life is 'limited'
come to think of it...there are lots of better choices out there

[cmfic1]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. There is nothing walking our Continent that I wouldnt hunt with a 7mm-08!

It wouldnt be my 1st choice for things big & ugly, but it will work providing you are shooting an upper end Bullet.

He said he doesnt like Magnum recoil, so I wont mention any, but if I were in your shoes, (lets assume you Handload) and wanted one non-magnum Chambering for all things in Canada it would be a .280 Rem, possibly reamed for .280 A.I.

[ABDUKNUT]

The .264 Win Mag is obsolete because the Swedes already invented it 50 years earlier. With the 24" bbl., the .264 Win Mag wouldn't do aything the 6.5x55 couldn't already do. Or, the .270 for that matter. Yes the .264 in a p64 m70 is a classic, but not to the extent of the famed .270. The .264 just didn't have the market appeal that O'connors' .270 did. Just another example of the the forces that influence the masses consumption.

For all around hunting in Alberta, I think a .30 cal is ideal. Personally, I like the .300 WSM. With quality 165g bullets, it shoots as flat as anything and will knock down anything that walks. In an accurate, short-action rifle it's one heck of an efficient combo.

I too, am a big fan of the 7mm/08, .260 Rem, 6.5x55, and .243 but they are not neccisarily ideal for the game and shooting situations the average hunter could expect in this Province.

If I could only hunt with one gun, it would be a .270 WBY, .300 WSM or .338 Win.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by The Ferguson Rifleman

Now THAT is one fine rifle gents. Single shot. Full length stock. Iron sights. In short, a man's rifle! Lightening fast in the bush, accuracy to spare! You don't need a repeater when you shoot a rifle like that.

But you got the calibre wrong Cat. It is not a 7x57, only the stinking peasants on this forum would call it that. When a gentleman (like the Ferguson Rifleman) shoots such a rifle, we refer to the calibre as .275 Rigby.

I will be giving a 7 hour lecture in the near future on the subject of sportsman's etiquette and social graces and I shall expect all of you to attend my scholarly writings with your undivided attention!

Thanks for the comments on the rifle Fergy, I like it a lot.
However, Rigby brought out the 276 AFTER Paul Mauser invented the 57 MM case.
Cat

[Kutenay]

The Pre-64 Mod. 70 "Westerner" came with a stainless 26"bbl., I have a minty one in a Micky G&H pattern stock in one of my safes and my buddies also have them. The Pre-64 Mod. 70 FWT. was also chambered and sold in .264 with a 22"bbl. ONLY and these are now quite rare.

The Mod. 70 was offered in both 24" pushfeed and 26 "Classic form during the '80s and later, into the last few years, these are NOT Pre-64s. A minty "Westerner" like mine is not too hard to find, but, it is a precision tool for specialized uses and mine shoots 1/2" groups with 140 NPs at 3250, at 300M anytime my old eyeballs are up to it.

The 6.5x55 is not even close to a .264 and my Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine in that chambering and a friend's identical one would only break 2700 fps with 140 NPs while a 22" .264 will go 3050 and a bit more, no sweat. BTW, the 6.5 x 55 in the MS is NOT a typo and these are chrono'd velocities.

The term ".275 Rigby" was developed to refer to the special high-velocity loading of a 140 spitzer bullet in the original Mauser 57mm case, by Rigby in rifles built in Oberndorf and stocked, sighted and proofed by Rigby and sold by them. After WWI, it became the commonplace term for British rifles of this chambering, even those sighted for 175 gr. bullets. I have had two of these in my eager hands, but, the owners would NOT sell and no amount of cajoling made any difference!

[catnthehat]

2700 in a 6.5X55MS?
I do not know what the velocity is for the one I load for, it's in an origginal Krag .
The fella doens't care either, as he has never failed to drop a deer with it.
I load the 156 Norma "red box" in it for him.
I've never held a Rigby except for a very nice one that a friend of my fsather's owned, and no , he wouldn't part with it either!
Oh, BTW, Howdy, Kute!
Cat

[The Ferguson Rifleman]

Cat I thought that the 275 Rigby was the same as the 7 x 57, but it was called the Rigby because the Brits didn't want to shoot any calibre invented by those unconsionable Huns back at the turn of the century.

Further, I hear that the cartridges are dimenionally the same and interchangeable. Is this not correct?

[Kutenay]

The 6.5x55 will give 2700 fps-mv with 140 NPs, Norma brass, Fed. 215M, 48-50 grs.-RE-22 and this is MAX in an appropriate rifle, NOT a 94 or 96.

The MS I had and one other I found for a friend were chambered in 6.5x55, NOT 6.5x54 MS or 6.5x53R as some military versions were. This is why I mentioned that this was NOT a typo and these are very rare and, obviously, quite valuable.

Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbines, contrary to popular myth WILL shoot tiny groups and produce fast velocities, as will the choice old Brnos, due to very fine barrels, equal to today's Liljas and Kreigers and long leades which allow highend loads to function safely.

I now have a late MS-MC mint carbine in .30-06 and it gives .6" groups at 100M with 2725 fps-mv regularly, but, it's too choice to hunt with and so it is a toy for a geezer, like me. Howdy, Cat!