Flattest shooting cartridge

[Mike_W]

After doing quite abit of reading latley I have came to the conclusion that the lighter the bullet and the more powder isnt always the flattest shooting.

How a 180 grain bullet in my 300win mag moving at the muzzle @ 2900fps and a 165 grain bullet at the same speed the 180 grain will shoot flatter. It all has to do with te ballistic coeficent of the bullet.

So now I a really confused I want a new elk rifle one that will really reach out and touch them at those extended distances and already having a 300 win mag and a 270 win what would be my best bet for a flat shooting cartridge. I want to have a bullet weight of 150 - 180 grains.

I have thought about the 7mm WSM but the book I am using doesnt have any info on it.

Any thought and or other suggestions?

Thanks
Mike

If you are looking for something flat in the 7mm range....I'd opt for the 7STW over the WSM. Other than that, maybe a 300RUM?

Check out some of the Lazzeroni cartridges for some serious long range performance.

Lots of good ballistic info on the web if you want to compare loads.

[LongDraw]

If you are looking for a true long distance cartridge in a .30 or .284 caliber you will want lots of powder capacity and heavy bullets. 175 grain in the 7mm's and over 200 grains with the .30 cal.

Lots of guys get all caught up in this (admittedly myself) but being realistic about it comparing a 30-06 to a 300 win mag, 7mm mag, even the ultra mags, etc... there is not a hill of beans difference out to 400 yards with most cartridges with hunting weight bullets.

Where bullet BC starts to shine is out 500 yards+ . Cartridges that burn lots of powder, kick like hell, and VLD bullets for the long range stuff.

[JohninAB]

Flat outperformer with a 30 cal and 180 grain bullet, my vote would go to the 30-378 Weatherby. Burns a lot of powder but she goes fast. Or as sheep said, the Lazzeroni line. Either way hard on barrels and mighty expensive to buy factory ammo or to even reload.

[Huntnut]

If your looking for a long range rifle try the 300 ultra mag with 200 gr. accubonds. Very accurate and flat shooting.

One thing to remember too Mike is that heavier does not always mean better downrange velocity. Yes, heavier bullets in the same calibre and style typically have better ballistic coefficients but rarely do they have as high of muzzle velocity as a lighter bullet. BC is one component of downrange velocity but so is muzzle velocity. Quite often the lighter bullet will retain more velocity at 400 yards just because of the fact that it started out going faster.

[honda450]

Holy smokes 400-500 yards? I can't see that far. Let alone shoot. But if you can the more power to you.

[High_N_Wide]

I have removed my post and will add very little to these type of posts from now on Dick!

Dick he was asking about BC and I was adding my 2 cents. Cause one guy shoots 1000yards on deer or antelope does not make it right for everyone.

I would never try a shot like that, I do practice and feel competent out to 500. However will not shoot further. I use a range finder and would only attempt as I said before under perfect conditions.


Trev

[Dick284]

Here we go again.
Try playing around doing some F Class, or hi power shillouette before you think you can just but what ever the gucciest caliber out there is to make 400 and 500 yard shots.
If you think the calibre is gonna solve your long range dilema think again. All the fancy calibers do you no good if you and your equiptment are suspect.
Try learning the LR shooting sports before trying LR hunting. You'll soon realize thet 500 yds is a long way and a lot can happen in 500yds, like the animal taking a step!
No matter the caliber please consider the the fact that most soupped up calibers still take better than a 1/3 of a second or longer to have the projectile travel 500yds. A lot can go wrong in that time, wind aside we are talking live living animals here, and yes Virginia they do move a bit, all on their own I might add.

[honda450]

I speak for myself but 99.9% of the animals I have shot have been between 0 and 200 yards. That is my capabilities. Maybe my rifles are but I ain't.

[ABDUKNUT]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Here we go again.
Try playing around doing some F Class, or hi power shillouette before you think you can just but what ever the gucciest caliber out there is to make 400 and 500 yard shots.
If you think the calibre is gonna solve your long range dilema think again. All the fancy calibers do you no good if you and your equiptment are suspect.
Try learning the LR shooting sports before trying LR hunting. You'll soon realize thet 500 yds is a long way and a lot can happen in 500yds, like the animal taking a step!
No matter the caliber please consider the the fact that most soupped up calibers still take better than a 1/3 of a second or longer to have the projectile travel 500yds. A lot can go wrong in that time, wind aside we are talking live living animals here, and yes Virginia they do move a bit, all on their own I might add.

Hmmm a few months ago the general consensus was that buying the longest shotgun shells guaranteed success on birds at any distance...

[catnthehat]

At 1,000 meters the 6.5WSM shooting a 140 grain match king has very close to the same trajectory as the .338lapua shooting a 250 grain Seirra IIRC, and about the same velocity..
However, the WSM uses a whole bunch less powder.

BUT, the Lapua will out good dents in my 3/8" steel target, and 6.5WSM will put a mark on the paint!
Flat isn't everything, you have to hit what you are shooting at, then the bullet has to kill the critter.
Cat

Originally Posted by ABDUKNUT

Hmmm a few months ago the general consensus was that buying the longest shotgun shells guaranteed success on birds at any distance...

Wow, you really are bored aren't you DUK. Life is okay without conflict...really it is!

Come on now, try playing nice.......I was enjoying it.

[Dr. Fish]

Do yourself a favor get a Magnum 7mm Wheatherby.
Not much in North America that it wont flatten.

How a 180 grain bullet in my 300win mag moving at the muzzle @ 2900fps and a 165 grain bullet at the same speed the 180 grain will shoot flatter.

You are missing one very important point,that being that the 165gr bullet can be driven at a higher muzzle velocity than the 180gr bullet.

[ABDUKNUT]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Wow, you really are bored aren't you DUK. Life is okay without conflict...really it is!

Come on now, try playing nice.......I was enjoying it.

Just food for thought...

.

A heavy bullet at longer distances is flatter shooting than a lighter bullet driven at faster velocity because it retains velocity and energy better downrange.

Not necessarily. Flatter = flatter trajectory arc

Lots of super light bullets with very flat trajectories.....much flatter than slower...heavier bullets.

[ABDUKNUT]

Originally Posted by lurch

Aside from all of this, you have two very flat shooting cartridges already with your .300 and .270.
I would think with some diligent loading and practicing, you would have the long range Elk rifle you desire (within reason). You need to remember that it still takes a fair amount of energy to bring a bull down too, even if you and the equipment are expert enough...

Look what the .45-70 did to the bison

Is the .45-70 a flat shooting cartridge?

.

.

the lighter bullet sheds the velocity & energy faster

Not necessarily...just because it's heavier doesn't mean it has a higher ballistic coefficient and since lighter bullets are often going so much faster, they can afford to lose velocity faster. Basically, there are no absolutes here. You are rigght some of the time with what you said and wrong some of the time.

.

[Win94]

Try learning the LR shooting sports before trying LR hunting. You'll soon realize thet 500 yds is a long way and a lot can happen in 500yds, like the animal taking a step!

............x2. 500 yards is a very long shot. All the animal has to do from the time you pull the trigger is shake a few of his ticks off and you have missed your mark.

I think you missed the part about speaking in general terms Sheep.

Believe me I understand than BC makes a huge difference. The best example of that is a heavy round nose bullet vs. a light spitzer. In that case you are correct.

I would assume in this instance that would not be the case.

Given two spitzer bullets of different weights and different but similar BC's driven at velocities applicable to their weights, there will be a time in which the trajectories intersect. Prior to that intersection, the lighter bullet will be flatter and after the intersection the heavier bullet will be.

At least that is how I have interpreted it.

Actually calibre makes as much or more difference........given the same style bullet, a smaller calibre will have a higher BC than a larger calibre of the same weight.


Like I said....you are right part of the time but not all of it! There are no absolutes.

I.

Originally Posted by lurch

I wasn't talking different caliber Sheep. What about bullet density?

I think everyone understands that there are variables.....

And that's why I said there are no absolutes in this conversation.

At some point the ground gets in the way of that arc so they may not always intersect.

.

No need to make this personal lurch...I never said you were wrong...you just weren't right in the fact that there are no absolutes in the statements you made. If you go back to the original post you'll see he was actually talking about multiple calibres including 7mms and quite possibly the reason for my confusion with your posts. Geeze man...relax...why do ballistics bring out the best in everyone????????? How the hell did this thread get perverted by our conversation...seems to me we were having a civiil discussion about the exact question he posed...until you threw your hissy fit that is.

[LongDraw]

Here are some figures I ran on my ballistics calculator;

.338 Sierra Match King- 300 grain .768 BC .338Lapua AI
3000FPS muzzle velocity
300 yard zero
10 mph crosswind
-197" @ 1000 yards
45" drift @ 1000 yards

.243 Sierra match king 107grain .527 BC 6mm Dasher (improved 6br)
3000FPS muzzle velocity
300 yard zero
10 mph crosswind
-244" @ 1000 yards
75" drift @ 1000 yards

.243 Hornaday Vmax- 75 grain .330 BC 6mm AI
3600FPS muzzle velocity
300 yard zero
10 mph crosswind
-248" @ 1000 yards
112" drift @ 1000 yards


Heavy bullets win every time, pushed hard at really long distances. To be fair I ran the numbers based on lighter bullets being pushed hard as well.

The one thing to take note of is the wind drift. Distance is constant and measurable. Wind is the party wrecker in the LR game.