Joe/Jane hunter and guns/ammo

[catnthehat]

After doing some extensive loading of late and pouring over old archives of 28 gauge data, talking to other hunters, and reading the last cartridge thread here,I decided to start this one.

This thread has to do with what makes a cartridge ( or firearm) die , either on the design table or the sporting goods shelves, and that is the shooting pulblic's perception of it.
I mentioned the last thread becuase Stubblejumper and a few others like the idea of a 257WSM.

The first thing that is mentioned when that wildcat comes up is "barrel burner"

Same as the .220 swift, and the 264Winmag.
however, the swift does not burn things out any faster than a hot 22/250, and the 264 no worse than any of the other hot , flat shooting cartridges as far as a hunting rifle is concerned.
the puplic figures it does though, because of the initial buzz around the particular cartridge when it first came out.

This leads me to another cartridge - specificly a load for it, and that is the 2 1/2 dram , 1oz trap load in 12 gauge.
When C.I.L. first started working with this load in the 60's , it was a devestating thing on the 16 yard line.
I shot some of the best scores of my life with it, and the straights that my father and older brother ran with it were simply astounding.
However, it didn't even make it onto the open market for a year ( if it did at all, Ii can't remeber that part!) before it was killed in the R&D department .
I couldn't figure it out, but my father told me it was because the public didn't want it!
Forget about the fact that it was a fantastic trap load, and if a person were shooting partridge and crows, it was great, it just didn't /wouldn't sell because it was believed it "didn't have the snot to bust birds".

Now, there are youth loads out there in 7/8oz, and I know more than a few very good shooters that use 1oz loads for 16 yard trap and for skeet.

BUT, I also know shooters who say the 7/8oz load is "no good for smmis" etc.
and they would not shoot a 1oz load because of the lack of pellets.

Interesting, because what I've been reading in some of the magazines and quotes by some natioanlly ranked shooters, it's the other way around!

The 284 Winchester is another cartridge that has spawned more popular wildcats than the original cartridge ever got as far as poularity goes.
The 6mm, 25, 6.5, and 30 are the most popular, with the 6.5 the king of them all.
For those not knowing , the 284 was built to cycle in short action forearms, the 99 Savage and the model 88Winchester two.
Anybody own one? Don't get rid of it if you do, they can be worht a bit, and are getting pretty scarce!

It is not very easy to find that ammo sometimes, and it is expensive when you do, and you are lucky to find more than one loading at that.

Anybody gor any other cartidges that pop into your heads that died, "just becuase"?
Cat

[Bushrat]

I kinda liked the 250 savage and the 6mm remington.

The 8mmremmag was never popular,yet it's offspring the 7mmstw sold better.In fact the 7mmstw is my favorite cartridge.

[duffy4]

I have a Win. 100 in .284. When I get a good accurate load worked up for it, I will be calling it my "ultimate all around big game rifle". An easy swinging and pointing "bush rifle' with the 2to7 scope turned down. And an open country "long" range rifle with accuracy and power for plains and mountian game. Not sure why this gun/cartridge combo did not sell well.

These days there are SO many cartridges that fall right into or overlapping every niche in the shooting world. And low and behold they are still bringing out "NEW' rounds.

Robin in Rocky

It seems the world was only ready for so many short mags and the Remingtons were short lived and I suspect only the 270WSM and 300WSM will survive from Winchester. The 300RUM was another caliber with a short life span as were the STW calibers...save for the 7STW. I doubt the .338 Federal will be around for long and I can't see the .30TC going anywhere.

Sadly, I think we've seen the end of the 303 British as well. There are enough old guns around to keep a following but I think like the .264 Mag, it has disappeared from the mainstream.

The 300RUM was another caliber with a short life span

Actually while the other ultramag cartridges have not done well,the 300ultramag is still going strong.It still sells quite well,and is very popular with the custom gun builders.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by stubblejumper

The 8mmremmag was never popular,yet it's offspring the 7mmstw sold better.In fact the 7mmstw is my favorite cartridge.

Yup, and if you talk to fellas who shoot a 8MM, they will tel you it will drop a moose or elk , is accurate, and should never had died!!

When the 264 came out, they changed barrels and it came with a stainless barrel initially being offered in a chrome moly.
Then they apparantly changed the barrel length from 24" to 26".
it was too late by that time!
As far as the SAUMS's go, they may be a little nore efficient that bthe WSM's from the tests I have done and looking at the powder specs.

A pretty moot point however.
I like the 6mm a heckuva lot better than I would the 243 Win, but that is just me - me and a bunch of balisticians that originally had big pressure problems with the 243 when it first came out, but we don't want to cloud public perception with details now, do we?
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by stubblejumper

Actually while the other ultramag cartridges have not done well,the 300ultramag is still going strong.It still sells quite well,and is very popular with the custom gun builders.

I know a few guys that shoot those things with a factoy 150 grainer - WOWSERS!! Talk about barrel burners, I would think ya got one there , Bubba!
Especially when you see them at the range pound 3 down in one minute!!
Cat

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I know a few guys that shoot those things with a factoy 150 grainer - WOWSERS!! Talk about barrel burners, I would think ya got one there , Bubba!
Especially when you see them at the range pound 3 down in one minute!!
Cat

I use the 180gr tsx in my own 300ultramags,and with fluted medium varmint barrels,they are fine for three shot groups(one shot after the other) before needing to let the barrel cool.However,when you buy a 300 ultramag,you have to accept the fact that barrel life is around 1500 rounds if you don't overheat them,and much less if you do.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by stubblejumper

I use the 180gr tsx in my own 300ultramags,and with fluted medium varmint barrels,they are fine for three shot groups(one shot after the other) before needing to let the barrel cool.However,when you buy a 300 ultramag,you have to accept the fact that barrel life is around 1500 rounds if you don't overheat them,and much less if you do.

You've likely seen the same guys out there SJ, by the time they are finished, there is a box of empties, they have been there less than 30 minutes, ( including posting a target)
, and pronounce it " perfect"!
Then they throw that red hot barrel into a waterproof ( read airtight) case, and take off.
"it's okay , it's stainless!" they say.
"Okie -Dokie"!
I have seen you shoot, and I have never, and doubt if you have ever, ever treated your rifles like that.....
Cat

[Pinhead]

You are right with these hot rounds you can not overheat them. If you see someone handling a 300 UAM like that, you wonder why they bought ? was it to be the big boy on the block ?

Anyways Ruger has announced to new cartridges from their 375 Ruger case, the 300 Ruger Compact Magnum and 338 RCM. The case has been cut back to these new cartridges can be used in (IIRR) .308length mags.

Here is the link: http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ammuni...ornady_110107/

They wanted a 300 & 338 Non-belted Magnum that could reach 300WM & 338 WM velocities from a 20" barrel compared to the 24" barrel on the Win Mags.

Now you can carry a 338 in a 6.5 lb gun and recoil is not supposed to be excessive ?? We will see.

Big Magnums, 100+ grain loads do not kill anything, well placed bullets do.

Also if you shoot one of these hot magnums please don't buy the cheap soft point bullets, buy Partitions, X, TSX, A Frames. You spent big money on your gun don't skimp on bullets. Those chrap soft points were never ment to handle those speeds and survive first contact, especially under 100 yards.

Hope that makes makes sense