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Old 04-01-2017, 01:52 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
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Default Red Beaver

Not an April Fool's joke....lol. Friday I caught this +60 lb beaver. I don't know how common red beavers are but this is the first one that I've caught. It looks more red than the picture shows. First time catching one this red and my biggest so far.



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Old 04-01-2017, 02:06 PM
13mileranch 13mileranch is offline
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That'll be a dandy to get tanned! Looks like you are doing well with beaver and coyotes.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:32 PM
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Awesome looking beaver! What area of Alberta was that in. North, west, central? Keep up the good work, I know I'd keep that one for the back of a chair
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:35 PM
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Awesome looking beaver! What area of Alberta was that in. North, west, central? Keep up the good work, I know I'd keep that one for the back of a chair
Agree. Keep it and tan it.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:59 PM
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I hadn't thought about tanning it but now I'm thinking that I might. I'll see how it looks when I take it off the board tomorrow. Professional tanning costs have gone up but it may be worth it for this one. I probably could have gone 3XXXL but I boarded it at 2XXL because I was afraid of stretching it. Better safe than sorry.
Caught in the Lac Ste Anne area west of Edmonton.
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Old 04-02-2017, 11:02 AM
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That is one unique critter Dave, never seen anything like it. Congrats. Definitely worth tanning.
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Old 04-02-2017, 12:26 PM
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They used to dock the lighter colored beav b4. Can't understand why cuz most end up dyed these days...I guess just cuz they can.....just like our mods..ha
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Old 04-02-2017, 11:50 PM
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We called those sunburned and it's common around here a week or so after ice out.

Pelts like that are marked down. They say because the sun curls the end of the guard hairs making them unsuitable for making felt.

I don't know if it is caused by too much sun, but that's what all the old trappers claimed caused it.
And I don't know it it actually makes the guard hair unsuitable for felt. I know many fur buyers will say anything to downgrade a pelt.

I even had one buyer tear one of my Fox pelts up the belly and then he told me it was worthless and he would not pay for it. He was only willing to pay five dollar each for the other pelts, and he said he would be generous and take the torn pelt off my hands for free.
He said the market was way down and he would be doing me a great favor taking my pelts at any price, because they probably wouldn't sell, and if they did I would get so little at auction that I wind up owing for the drumming and sorting ext.

I sold that lot to Dominion Sudac Auctions and averaged $25.00 for each pelt, clear, and they paid $15.00 for the torn pelt.
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
We called those sunburned and it's common around here a week or so after ice out.

Pelts like that are marked down. They say because the sun curls the end of the guard hairs making them unsuitable for making felt.

I don't know if it is caused by too much sun, but that's what all the old trappers claimed caused it.
And I don't know it it actually makes the guard hair unsuitable for felt. I know many fur buyers will say anything to downgrade a pelt.

I even had one buyer tear one of my Fox pelts up the belly and then he told me it was worthless and he would not pay for it. He was only willing to pay five dollar each for the other pelts, and he said he would be generous and take the torn pelt off my hands for free.
He said the market was way down and he would be doing me a great favor taking my pelts at any price, because they probably wouldn't sell, and if they did I would get so little at auction that I wind up owing for the drumming and sorting ext.

I sold that lot to Dominion Sudac Auctions and averaged $25.00 for each pelt, clear, and they paid $15.00 for the torn pelt.


Pretty sure this is a different situation than sunburn.


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Old 04-03-2017, 11:57 AM
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Nice beaver.

Last edited by Oldan Grumpi; 04-03-2017 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 04-03-2017, 12:18 PM
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Irish beaver perhaps??
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:52 PM
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Interesting stuff as always, Keg. I've never heard of a sunburned beaver before. The ice just opened up by the lodge a day or two before I caught this guy so he probably didn't get much suntanning in. I'd like to know more about those sunburned beaver though. If you leave them in the sun, or sun through the window in the shed, will the hair on them singe? I don't let the sun get at any of my fur but I'm curious about that.
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:36 AM
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Interesting stuff as always, Keg. I've never heard of a sunburned beaver before. The ice just opened up by the lodge a day or two before I caught this guy so he probably didn't get much suntanning in. I'd like to know more about those sunburned beaver though. If you leave them in the sun, or sun through the window in the shed, will the hair on them singe? I don't let the sun get at any of my fur but I'm curious about that.
I don't know what would happen to a pelt as opposed to a hide on a live beaver, if it were exposed to sun for too long.

About this beaver, I don't know what the ice conditions were on the colony you were trapping. Was all the ice gone, most of it, or just some open patches.
Beaver will climb out and sun themselves just as soon as possible. Often long before there is actual open water. All they need is a hole in the ice big enough to crawl through.

Could that be the case here?

Of course there is yet another explanation. It could be just a color variant.
I have seen jet black pelts and cream colored pelts, and just about every shade in between.

I used to do a lot of spring hunting of beaver along the Peace River just after ice out. One thing I never saw with those beaver was a dark pelt, they were all reddish or very light brown to tan colored.

An interesting side note, we used to expect to take at least 100 Beaver each, in two weeks on those spring hunts,, and usually did.
Two weeks was about as long as the hides would be worth taking. They would become so sun-burnt and chewed up from fighting that they weren't worth skinning by the end of the second week, after ice out.
And those spring beaver never brought as much as winter caught Beaver.
Or colony hunted Beaver.

When I say they were sun burnt, I can't say for sure that was the case, but they did turn very red and it was the term we used for the color.
Plus, I know those beaver spent their days sitting on bare river banks, exposed to whatever sun there was. And I'm guessing that this is where the idea that they were sun burned came from.

But it must also have had at least some basis in truth because the fur buyers also used the term, as did the auction houses but only for spring beaver. Not on winter caught beaver sold in spring not even when those winter caught beaver were red colored.
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:38 AM
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I should start another thread I suppose but since I'm on the topic of spring hunts, I was wondering if any of you guys spring hunt and if you do, do you have issues with retrieving shot beaver?

If you do I have a trick that you might find very helpful, if you aren't already using it.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:39 AM
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The red around the vent is called red rim I believe it's from them peeing and defecating on themselves or being in it all winter basically it stains and know singes their fur. Very common on spring beaver. Unique colour though on the rest of him cool.
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:19 AM
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very common color where we trap. Probably about 20-30% of our beavers are red like this
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:36 AM
Oldan Grumpi Oldan Grumpi is offline
 
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Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
I should start another thread I suppose but since I'm on the topic of spring hunts, I was wondering if any of you guys spring hunt and if you do, do you have issues with retrieving shot beaver?

If you do I have a trick that you might find very helpful, if you aren't already using it.
You might be tempted to laugh at this one, but it worked for me. I had a little store bought fiberglass bow, the kind you buy for kids that's about 3' long and lays straight when it's unstrung and only has about a 10 pound pull.

I used a little arrow with a blunt tip, but with two treble hooks just behind the head, wrapped on tight with squirrel wire, and a roll of 50 pound test braided fishing line. It worked best when I drilled a little tiny hole through the arrow just ahead of the nock for the line, otherwise it would shoot crooked. I'd shoot the arrow over the beaver and just drag it in.

Worked pretty good. Just don't get one of those hooks in your finger. I used to wrap a piece of moose hide from an old moccasin top around the hooks, just to avoid that. The whole thing didn't even weigh more than a pound or so.
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Old 04-04-2017, 12:33 PM
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The red around the vent is called red rim I believe it's from them peeing and defecating on themselves or being in it all winter basically it stains and know singes their fur. Very common on spring beaver. Unique colour though on the rest of him cool.
That's what I like about this forum, there's such a wealth of knowledge. I did a quick google search and found a little info about red rim (RR) on a different forum. Apparently the RR can travel quite a ways on the pelt. He was cooped up all winter and got RR. This might explain why the beaver had a red tint to it. It sounds like the RR will cause the pelt to get downgraded. I learn something new every day!

http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbt...pics/5837677/1
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Old 04-04-2017, 03:07 PM
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My understanding of red rimmed beaver is that as the beavers are marking territory, they are excreting their oils and climbing over the excreted oils and getting the oils over the whole of the belly, obviously the worst by the vent/pooper... so currently you have a red stain bellied beaver. Next you harvest the beaver and take him home and slice him down the belly, flesh and stretch, and now if you look for it, you will see the red "rim"... the belly stain on the rim of the round/oval beaver pelt.

Red rimmed goods are discounted. Some tanneries are able to take out the red rim with some process and upgrade the spring caught pelts.
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Old 04-04-2017, 03:36 PM
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That's a LIBERAL beaver, i'm glad you got him., lol
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Old 04-05-2017, 09:02 AM
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Default Red Rim

Marty's comment is correct. I cannot view the picture, but I am far to familiar with what it looks like. Red rim is most common in spring, however I have caught lots of fall red rims as well. Where beaver populations are high, or colonies are in close proximity the problem escalates as the males are forever marking boundaries. Very seldom will you see this in isolated colonies (sloughs with one house), and almost never on a female. I find the problem is the worst on any rivers or creeks with multiple colonies. As for sun burn...I don't buy that. Beavers come it hundreds of different shades, just like coyotes or wolves. I have rivers where I catch pale westerns, and the next colony has extra dark brows that get graded as Easterns. They are good to trap until they start shedding guard hairs, fighting is a sign of overpopulation. I caught a "Red Rim" yesterday that saw its first sunlight when I pulled it out of the ice.

Spruce
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Old 04-05-2017, 09:52 AM
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:39 PM
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My understanding of red rimmed beaver is that as the beavers are marking territory, they are excreting their oils and climbing over the excreted oils and getting the oils over the whole of the belly, obviously the worst by the vent/pooper... so currently you have a red stain bellied beaver. Next you harvest the beaver and take him home and slice him down the belly, flesh and stretch, and now if you look for it, you will see the red "rim"... the belly stain on the rim of the round/oval beaver pelt.

Red rimmed goods are discounted. Some tanneries are able to take out the red rim with some process and upgrade the spring caught pelts.
That oil is their waterproofing which they use year round and all beaver use it.
It makes no sense that it would stain the pelt.

Castor and urine are another matter. They might.

More interesting, red rim is something I have never heard of which suggests to me that it may be more environmental then natural.
Maybe it's some mineral in the soil or the water that we don't have here but is common further south.

Of course there is another possibility. That is regional explanations of a condition no one really understands.

Ultimately I don't think it really matters what causes it. We all know it exists and it discounts the pelt. And no one has discovered a fix or cure for it.
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:53 PM
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Marty's comment is correct. I cannot view the picture, but I am far to familiar with what it looks like. Red rim is most common in spring, however I have caught lots of fall red rims as well. Where beaver populations are high, or colonies are in close proximity the problem escalates as the males are forever marking boundaries. Very seldom will you see this in isolated colonies (sloughs with one house), and almost never on a female. I find the problem is the worst on any rivers or creeks with multiple colonies. As for sun burn...I don't buy that. Beavers come it hundreds of different shades, just like coyotes or wolves. I have rivers where I catch pale westerns, and the next colony has extra dark brows that get graded as Easterns. They are good to trap until they start shedding guard hairs, fighting is a sign of overpopulation. I caught a "Red Rim" yesterday that saw its first sunlight when I pulled it out of the ice.

Spruce

Fighting is not necessarily a sign of overpopulation. Of course any animal will fight more if it encounters more individuals to fight with, which is exactly why the travelers fight so much. But that's not due to overpopulation.

It's because dispersing brings them in contact with others that must follow the same water course.

Why wouldn't you find red rim on a female, that doesn't make sense if it's due to any of the factors mentioned.
They have oil glands, they have castors and they use both. They pee and poop. and they do all of the above as regularly as any other beaver.

But they don't make scent mounds under the ice so why would they have any staining if they have been under the ice all winter long.
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:55 PM
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Keg, from what I found and have read the red rim is caused from excrement and urine. Apparently it is more common on beaver that have been cooped up under the ice all winter in a lodge. I didn't find a lot of info about it other than other Trappers discussing it.....but I didn't spend a whole lot of time looking either.

The pelt is off the board now and it doesn't look all that much different, I don't think. When I have time I'll post a picture of the pelt with a few others and see if it sticks out as being different. To me it's not unique enough to get tanned so it'll go in to auction with the rest of my fur.
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Old 04-05-2017, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by The Spruce View Post
Marty's comment is correct. I cannot view the picture, but I am far to familiar with what it looks like. Red rim is most common in spring, however I have caught lots of fall red rims as well. Where beaver populations are high, or colonies are in close proximity the problem escalates as the males are forever marking boundaries. Very seldom will you see this in isolated colonies (sloughs with one house), and almost never on a female. I find the problem is the worst on any rivers or creeks with multiple colonies. As for sun burn...I don't buy that. Beavers come it hundreds of different shades, just like coyotes or wolves. I have rivers where I catch pale westerns, and the next colony has extra dark brows that get graded as Easterns. They are good to trap until they start shedding guard hairs, fighting is a sign of overpopulation. I caught a "Red Rim" yesterday that saw its first sunlight when I pulled it out of the ice.

Spruce
I caught this one in a creek that has multiple dams every 100 to 300 metres creating multiple beaver ponds for at least a km. The landowners call it a PITA, I call it a honey hole.....lol! They said that they shoot about 20 every year and it doesn't seem to effect the population in the least. I can understand why, the waterway is like a beaver highway and I would imagine that transient beavers would be quick to take over any abandoned lodge. I'll have to take some pictures today and post them up.
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Old 04-05-2017, 01:12 PM
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It starts picking out drapes and coming up with a honey-do list......trust me on this one! Harold
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Old 04-05-2017, 08:58 PM
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Keg, from what I found and have read the red rim is caused from excrement and urine. Apparently it is more common on beaver that have been cooped up under the ice all winter in a lodge. I didn't find a lot of info about it other than other Trappers discussing it.....but I didn't spend a whole lot of time looking either.

The pelt is off the board now and it doesn't look all that much different, I don't think. When I have time I'll post a picture of the pelt with a few others and see if it sticks out as being different. To me it's not unique enough to get tanned so it'll go in to auction with the rest of my fur.
Urine makes sense, but even then there has to be more to it or we would see it up here and we don't.

I thought maybe I just hadn't noticed but I was visiting my brothers this afternoon and they hadn't heard of it either.
My older brother has more experience trapping beaver the I do. He was adamant that there is no such thing as red rim. I'm no so sure, I think it is possible, but just not for the cause some claim, although that may well be a contributing factor.

I expect we are all familiar with the staining one sees on Weasel later in the winter. Obviously some staining is possible.

Feces doesn't make as much sense. I was always told that a Beaver can not evacuate on land and there is evidence to suggest this may be true.
Plus, their feces is quiet dry so not as likely to cause staining, especially if released in water.

Whatever red rim is, old wives tale, an uneducated explanation of a natural phenomenon or fact as presented, it does not exists in all regions.

Sun burn, or singed pelts are very real and well know and does exist in all regions. it is even mentioned in the NAFA fur handling manual, although they do not mention a cause and they call it singe.

Quote:
SINGE
This condition can be recognized by a close examination of
the guard hair, which will exhibit a distinct curling of the tips,
resulting in a singed appearance.
.


Oddly enough they do not mention red rim.
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Old 04-05-2017, 09:37 PM
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Oddly enough they do not mention red rim.
In the Grading Descriptions....#8 under "Clarity" = RED RIM

http://www.nafa.ca/wp-content/upload...on-EN-2012.pdf
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Old 04-06-2017, 12:30 AM
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In the Grading Descriptions....#8 under "Clarity" = RED RIM

http://www.nafa.ca/wp-content/upload...on-EN-2012.pdf

I see. I have to admit, I had not seen that before.

I do note that it is not in the document I have.

http://www.nafa.ca/wp-content/upload...nual-E-web.pdf

And it is under the heading, clarity, which, as I understand it, refers to the leather side. And it's not listed under quality where damage catagories are listed.
Plus, right under it, stain is listed, which I gather is what the red rim we are discussing is.
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