Micro Guides ... Yay or nay?

[millsboy79]

I was at bass pro today and noticed that a number of the spinning rods also now have the micro guides.

I talked to the person there and they really didn't know the science or even the marketing behind it. When I got home I check it out on the interwebs and read enough I kind of want to try one out.

Was curious if anyone here has some first hand experience?

Also wondering what you would suggest if you wanted to have one all around rod, what weight / action / length would you have? OR at least what do you think is appropriate for each situation?

Not worried about brand / model specifics because everyone likes their own brands.

Currently I have a cheapo Shimano medium weight 6'6" fast action ... a cheaper Fenwick 6' medium and a 7' older ugly stick.

I only really use the Shimano atm and don't really "need" a new rod but I wouldn't mind having a nice micro guide to replace them all.

[RigPig]

I own 2 rods with micro eyes and I can't say if they are any more sensitive. But I can say if you buy 1 make sure the eye is stable and reinforced properly. 1 of my rods the eyes are easily bent and broke with not much pressure. When trying to go so small and light it affected durability. This was a 130$ rod.

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by RigPig

I own 2 rods with micro eyes and I can't say if they are any more sensitive. But I can say if you buy 1 make sure the eye is stable and reinforced properly. 1 of my rods the eyes are easily bent and broke with not much pressure. When trying to go so small and light it affected durability. This was a 130$ rod.

Did you notice any difference in your casting distance and accuracy?

[RavYak]

I have micro guides on a st croix rage casting rod. The biggest advantage I think is that they control the pressure distribution along the rod better. I didn't really notice any noticeable distance or accuracy difference although I haven't directly compared it to a similar rod with regular guides. I think rod backbone and length will have much more of an effect on casting then the type of guides.

The biggest thing I have noticed about them is that the line more easily gets wrapped up around the tip of the rod which is kind of annoying.

[The Fisherman Guy]

Micro guides are a good tool for a handful of jobs. Smaller guide feet, less wrapping thread, less epoxy = less blank flex inhibition, less weight on the blank.

[57charlie]

There is some science & logic behind the use of micro guides but bottom line is if you believe it'll land you more fish then by all means pick one up. For the average outdoorsman, which the majority of us are, there is really not going to be an appreciable difference. Marketing will convince you that "New & Improved" is always better. Should I break any of the current rods I use at the moment, I'll take a little closer look at them.

http://blog.mudhole.com/product-revi...consideration/

http://anglersresource.net/MicroGuides.aspx

[pikergolf]

If you favor and Ugly Stick type blank, micro guide won't make a bit of difference. If you are using a high end blank they can make a difference, end of story.

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

If you favor and Ugly Stick type blank, micro guide won't make a bit of difference. If you are using a high end blank they can make a difference, end of story.

I am pretty sure that you can currently only get the micro guides on relatively higher end blanks so that comment is not really helpful ... at all

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by millsboy79

I am pretty sure that you can currently only get the micro guides on relatively higher end blanks so that comment is not really helpful ... at all

That should answer your question. I have 3 G Loomis, a St Croix, and an older Shimano Crucial (when they still were quality built), and they all have micro guides.

I guess I should add what little science I know about them. When they use micro guides they use more per lineal foot, and when used in conjunction with a quality blank, they will give you more "feedback" from the line. Another bonus is that it reduces the angle of your line in between guides, and in turn creates less resistance, also it will reduce line whip which will give you a longer cast.

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

That should answer your question. I have 3 G Loomis, a St Croix, and an older Shimano Crucial (when they still were quality built), and they all have micro guides.

I guess I should add what little science I know about them. When they use micro guides they use more per lineal foot, and when used in conjunction with a quality blank, they will give you more "feedback" from the line. Another bonus is that it reduces the angle of your line in between guides, and in turn creates less resistance, also it will reduce line whip which will give you a longer cast.

Actually just because "cheap" rods don't have these guides does not answer the question. And neither does quoting the marketing I have already read.

My question is can anyone vouch for what the marketing states from first hand experience.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by millsboy79

Actually just because "cheap" rods don't have these guides does not answer the question. And neither does quoting the marketing I have already read.

My question is can anyone vouch for what the marketing states from first hand experience.

It's not marketing, it's physics. I don't know how many times you need to hear the science behind it for you to believe it, I see it's a losing battle.

I'm done here.

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It's not marketing, it's physics. I don't know how many times you need to hear the science behind it for you to believe it, I see it's a losing battle.

I'm done here.

I don't need to hear the science ... I don't want to hear the science ... I never asked for the science ... I wanted personal opinions about the average fisherman's experience.

I can read the science for myself ... and have ... also with science to be significant it would probably only have to be a 4% improvement in sensitivity which I don't believe the average person could quantify.

I want useful information ... like finding the line seems to wrap around the last guide more often ... or if you like long leaders you might have issues with casting larger knots through the eyes which actually will lead to short casts.

Anyways I am glad you're done ... nothing you said was new or helpful.

[traxxis87]

I bought a Quantum smoke 7' Spin rod with Micro guides, cant speak to the sensitivity (never noticed a difference) but I do feel like I can cast a mile now!

[Nova]

Originally Posted by millsboy79

I want useful information ... like finding the line seems to wrap around the last guide more often ... or if you like long leaders you might have issues with casting larger knots through the eyes which actually will lead to short casts.

Anyways I am glad you're done ... nothing you said was new or helpful.

Can't say wrapping around the guide is an issue in my experience. The others, yes, it is an obvious downfall to a microguide rod. If you want to cast braid with 10' of fluorocarbon on the end tied with a double uni knot it isn't going to be a smooth, consistent or long distance cast. Also not great for slip bobbers. If you run a swivel near the end of your line you have to be careful not to pull it into the guide as it can cause the insert to pop out.

Rods are just like anything else with fishing, it is each to their own. I use mostly microguide spinning rods spooled with braid, casting distance and accuracy is top notch IMO.

[Warmbreeze]

I own an array of rods, mostly higher end with both micro and regular guides. If you are tying a flouro leader to braid then the knot connecting "may" have issues going through depending how good you tie them. Not saying you will but it might happen. Another thing, the other day I was fishing the the popular fuzz was collecting on the line. Here micro guides were a hindrance for casting more so then normal ones. Something to consider.

Whether they are more sensitive, cast further, etc. etc. I have not noticed a difference between them but then again I have never fished two rods with identical blanks, reel seats, quality of guides with one being micro and the other not. That would be the only way to truly test this accurately with no confounding variables.

I love purchasing a new rod, my problem is I have a taste for high quality. When I shop I never even consider whether it has micro guides or normal ones. I believe the quality and material of the rod blank, guides, reel seat, construction, number of guides, hook keeper, fit and finish, and warranty are way more important then the size of the guides.

Micro guides do look cool! Who knows, maybe it is just style like split grip vs full cork. It sounds like you want micro guides, so if you were trying to decide between two very similar rods with the differences being micro vs normal, try the micro out! At the very worst it gives you an excuse to buy another rod.

You also asked which all around rod for Alberta for most people? 7 foot medium action fast tip. Second to that and if you aren't jigging or drop shot I love an 8'6" medium action fast tip. If you are still interested I can post what I like for certain techniques.

Sorry for being long winded but I really wanted to help as little stuff like that really bothered me before as well. Tight lines!!

[fluxcore]

I've got them on my fly rod lol, other then that there a nah for me personally. I use tried and true ugly sticks and any left over change goes into a good shimano reel, good braid and gas in the boat 😉
I have say the new Mitchell spin casting reels are nice, just picked up two spares and endorse the sh$& out of them.

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by Warmbreeze

Micro guides do look cool! Who knows, maybe it is just style like split grip vs full cork. It sounds like you want micro guides, so if you were trying to decide between two very similar rods with the differences being micro vs normal, try the micro out! At the very worst it gives you an excuse to buy another rod.

You also asked which all around rod for Alberta for most people? 7 foot medium action fast tip. Second to that and if you aren't jigging or drop shot I love an 8'6" medium action fast tip. If you are still interested I can post what I like for certain techniques.

Sorry for being long winded but I really wanted to help as little stuff like that really bothered me before as well. Tight lines!!

I currently have a few cheap rods and was thinking of replacing them all with one half decent to good rod.

I would like to hear what you use for specific situations, I was curious why some rods were labelled, jigging, walleye, mooching instead of medium "strength" and fast action etc. I would assume its so people people like me that do not know that the best walleye rod is a medium / fast action rod or what ever the case may be.

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by Nova

Can't say wrapping around the guide is an issue in my experience. The others, yes, it is an obvious downfall to a microguide rod. If you want to cast braid with 10' of fluorocarbon on the end tied with a double uni knot it isn't going to be a smooth, consistent or long distance cast. Also not great for slip bobbers. If you run a swivel near the end of your line you have to be careful not to pull it into the guide as it can cause the insert to pop out.

Rods are just like anything else with fishing, it is each to their own. I use mostly microguide spinning rods spooled with braid, casting distance and accuracy is top notch IMO.

My question with the casting issue is about the last guide ... I would expect them to be the same size on either rod, so why would one ruin the guide and one wouldn't?

[EZM]

I have 2 high end Loomis rods - one spinning one casting rod both with micro guides.

I also HATE when the line flips over the small guides and causes a tangle. If you don't cast perfectly .... this is not uncommon.

I have broken one rod tip off so far as, ironically, right after a cast, I saw it flip over and become tangled and a pike hit the lure and snapped the end of the rod. I was not happy. This is a royal pain in the behind - so much so - I won't be purchasing a rod with micro guides any time soon.

I can cast consistently enough so that doesn't happen - BUT I find you have to pay attention to the speed of your release and the angle the line comes off, and control the thumb on the free spool precisely (on the bait caster) to avoid it. This is far too much "meticulous work" as far as I'm concerned to make something not tangle up each cast.

As far as sensitivity and casting distance - Loomis make great rods that cast very well and are extremely sensitive - I'm not sure how much of a part the guide plays into that equation.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by millsboy79

I would like to hear what you use for specific situations, I was curious why some rods were labelled, jigging, walleye, mooching instead of medium "strength" and fast action etc. I would assume its so people people like me that do not know that the best walleye rod is a medium / fast action rod or what ever the case may be.

The whole power and action rating systems are flawed because every company seems to use different systems to rate their rods.

I think that is why more and more of the companies are making rods for specific situations because it is easier for them to sell them as a crankbait rod or walleye jigging rod then to have anglers trying to interpret what the rod would be good for.

Micro guides would be the last thing I would be thinking about when picking a rod. Having the right length, sensitivity, action and even weight is much more important imo.

Also regarding the knot going through eyelets. One thing you can do to help that is crazy glue your knots so they are nice and smooth.

[millsboy79]

Originally Posted by RavYak

The whole power and action rating systems are flawed because every company seems to use different systems to rate their rods.

I think that is why more and more of the companies are making rods for specific situations because it is easier for them to sell them as a crankbait rod or walleye jigging rod then to have anglers trying to interpret what the rod would be good for.

Micro guides would be the last thing I would be thinking about when picking a rod. Having the right length, sensitivity, action and even weight is much more important imo.

Also regarding the knot going through eyelets. One thing you can do to help that is crazy glue your knots so they are nice and smooth.

They should have a simulator like they have at the boat / outdoors shows. It would be similar to how you choose your golf clubs and you could see EXACTLY how the different rods feel in the same situations.

Hahaha actually that seems like a great idea.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by RavYak

The whole power and action rating systems are flawed because every company seems to use different systems to rate their rods.

I think that is why more and more of the companies are making rods for specific situations because it is easier for them to sell them as a crankbait rod or walleye jigging rod then to have anglers trying to interpret what the rod would be good for.

Micro guides would be the last thing I would be thinking about when picking a rod. Having the right length, sensitivity, action and even weight is much more important imo.

Also regarding the knot going through eyelets. One thing you can do to help that is crazy glue your knots so they are nice and smooth.

There was a man that developed a system to measure and predict actions and feel of rods. I have every rod I own, and it's a lot, cataloged with this system, as I used to build them. It is amazing how well you can predict how a rod will behave using this system. Unfortunately manufacturers were not interested. I supposed it revealed to much. It is aimed at fly rods but is applicable to all rods.

http://www.common-cents.info/

[EZM]

Originally Posted by RavYak

The whole power and action rating systems are flawed because every company seems to use different systems to rate their rods.

I think that is why more and more of the companies are making rods for specific situations because it is easier for them to sell them as a crankbait rod or walleye jigging rod then to have anglers trying to interpret what the rod would be good for.

Micro guides would be the last thing I would be thinking about when picking a rod. Having the right length, sensitivity, action and even weight is much more important imo.

Also regarding the knot going through eyelets. One thing you can do to help that is crazy glue your knots so they are nice and smooth.

There is definitely some variation from manufacturer to manufacturer for sure and there is no "measured standard" as far as I'm aware when it comes to measuring power and action.

It's also fair to say comparing a medium power big game rod designed for amberjack or tuna trolling rod isn't anything like a medium power jigging walleye rod.

I think we have to consider what species the rods are designed to be used to catch and what technique the rod is designed for and you may find a closer (and more reasonable comparison).

I think many manufacturers also produce "special technique" rods which are a clever marketing tool.

Bottom line is - you can gauge a rods suitability in the store in most cases. Some are better than others, but without a standard, we are left to trial and error ourselves.

[old dog]

I have both and can't say I see much difference other than I don't catch the micro eyes on things as easy when Iam not being careful.