Is this for real?

[mac1983]

https://globalnews.ca/news/3827601/a...-safety-rules/

I have a hard time comprehending this crap. I farm by myself mostly, hire a buddy when i need to. If this goes through i guess there will be 1 less family farm in alberta. If they expect the alberta taxpayer to upgrade every farm in alberta to oh&s regs good luck. Don't fix what ain't broken.

[mgvande]

the corporate farms are going to love this when it kills the family farm. I believe it is by design.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by mgvande

the corporate farms are going to love this when it kills the family farm. I believe it is by design.

I believe this is just job creation for administration positions in the government. Not much to it really, make sure your guy has CSTS/first aid, give him a brief orientation/safety manual and a pair of gloves/hard hat/glasses, then if he gets hurt, you can say its his fault. Almost every small business has some such thing that likely costs $200-$300/year.

[NCC]

This legislation will give the government a big stick to hit farmers with when they have an incident. It won't do much to protect the farm workers.

[raab]

Total hog wash! Only thing that should be required on family farms is some sort of insurance if a employee is injured(private or WCB), a bit of training on heavy equipment and on any other dangers pertaining to that farm.

They said they'd consult... NDP are a pit of lying vipers!

[Twisted Canuck]

We're from the government. We're here to help.

Think of the children.......

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by raab

They said they'd consult... NDP are a pit of lying vipers!

They may or may not have consulted, probably not, if they did they didn't listen and don't care. Farmers are a minority now, the multitude of urban voters who are removed from farm life and know nothing about it support them. NDP knew this before they even bothered bringing it up. Corporate farmers support getting rid of family farmers, they are a nuisance to corporate investment. Its the way of the modern world unfortunately.

[Spooner]

The volume and types of fatal incidents on farms is unacceptable. Especially minors.

Get with the times.

[Dewey Cox]

Generally speaking, farms are big business now, compared to what they were a few generations ago.
I don't think farms should expect the same kind of special treatment and exemptions today as they were given back when we were trying to grow a nation out of nothing.
(And the government has no reason to now that such a small number of voters are farmers.)

[mac1983]

Yep a way of life is disappearing before our eyes.
i find it amazing in the last month i have heard of at least 4 work related deaths in alberta, probably more, in O,H, and S regulated industries. What has the safety industry done for them ? How many deaths on the family farm in alberta last month? And us family farmers are the problem?

[bat119]

Happens more than you think

306 Farm-related fatalities in Alberta 1997-2014. Children accounted for 19%

http://www.abfarmsafety.com/resources/statistics.htm

[mgvande]

I bet there is more drug overdoses than farm related deaths. Deal with that problem and show results before harassing framers on there own land.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by mgvande

I bet there is more drug overdoses than farm related deaths. Deal with that problem and show results before harassing framers on there own land.

I've never really understood that either. Its likely that traffic fatalities are one of the highest non-natural causes of death in this province annually, and they decide to chase guns, provide safe injection sites, implement OH&S for farms, etc.

[bat119]

I wouldn't expect farm safety to reach industrial standards, however even simple safety measures could prevent some accidents. The goal is raising farm safety awareness more than to eliminate the family farm.

I would be crushed if these were my children

WITHROW, ALTA.—Three young sisters were playing in their family’s loaded grain truck when they became trapped and suffocated in a dense pile of tiny canola seeds that experts say would have swallowed them like quicksand.
Thirteen-year-old Catie Bott, and 11-year-old twins Dara and Jana were buried around suppertime Tuesday during the busy harvest season on the farm near Withrow in west-central Alberta.


https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...der-seeds.html

[mac1983]

That is a truly sad amount of fatalities. i would like to see the comparible numbers on o,h&s regulated workplaces before and after the safety industry took over. There is no doubt that these large farm corporations should have to play by the same rules the rest have to, but should a one or two person family farm have to write up a core value assessment and a book of hazard assessments on every little step involved, or pay someone thousands of dollars for an off the self one. I witnessed what the safety industry did to the oilpatch through the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, and 10's and all it did was chase out the knowledge and experiance to get the job done on time and safely, and raise up a bunch of entitled workers. I left the patch and went back farming to get away from it and now the safety industry is trying to do it all over again on our small family farm. kind of ironic lol.

[mac1983]

Originally Posted by bat119

I wouldn't expect farm safety to reach industrial standards, however even simple safety measures could prevent some accidents. The goal is raising farm safety awareness more than to eliminate the family farm.

I would be crushed if these were my children

WITHROW, ALTA.—Three young sisters were playing in their family’s loaded grain truck when they became trapped and suffocated in a dense pile of tiny canola seeds that experts say would have swallowed them like quicksand.
Thirteen-year-old Catie Bott, and 11-year-old twins Dara and Jana were buried around suppertime Tuesday during the busy harvest season on the farm near Withrow in west-central Alberta.


https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...der-seeds.html

That was truly sad, and the parents will have to live with that forever. Never did hear what happened, hard to see how o,h,&s regs would have prevented that one.

[Bushmaster]

A couple of points....


This legislation was written by the PC govt. and enacted by the NDP.

This legislation only affects farms who hire non-relatives. Family farms are exempt. Meaning 75% of Alberta farms are exempt.

As of Jan. 2016 it was mandatory for farms with non relative employees to carry WCB.

There definitely was consultation. That's what the 6 TWG's(Technical Working Groups) were for.

[Full Curl Earl]

I'm not sure why farms should be given special exemptions from what is law for others? Lets be honest, If farms were safe places, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I recall, (now this is a long time ago,) in medic school, that more serious traumatic injuries occurred in farming than any other industry with respect to numbers in comparable industry. And after working in the field for a long time, farms are dangerous places. How many auger safety guards are still in place? Yearly occurance folks getting pulled into them. And I bet reporting of incidents is a small portion of what's actually happening out there.
Farming is a career, a lifestyle, I get it, but I'm not sure how the government is supposed to stand idly by and watch tragedies occur with kids and not do something about it.
And so folks know, kids burried in grain truck boxes is not the rarity it should be, and it's typically fatal. If this alone stops it will all have been worth it, for me.

[michaelmicallef]

Who hasn't the government ****ed off.
I think that's there job **** people off and make them pay for it.

[Sundancefisher]

There is often heard shouts of:

• That is the way it has been always done
• I learned how to do it that way
• It is held together by bailing wire and duct tape just like always
• Getting hurt is just part of farm life
• Kids gotta learn about the real world sometime
• I know it is dangerous but I am just extra careful
• If I did it your way I would never get the work done
• Who are you to tell me I am not safe
• I don't have time to waste on safety...

Folks.

Safety is not an argument. SAFETY IS THE ONLY WAY.

Implementing safe practices is key to coming home from work alive. Regardless of profession.

If you are not safe...there has to be some sort of penalty to make those incapable of working smart to make them work safer...outside of the penalty of being hurt or killed.

So rather than whine about government legislating change on the family farm...how would you all constructively address this problem to fix it?

You can't say let the farmers do what they have always done...because some are not not working safely.

SDF

[CaberTosser]

One benefit this will bring is new lines of thinking. I know by taking my own experience as a reference that I would pick up newer and different work procedures and techniques at different employers and with different co-workers over the years. If a farmer or worker has been doing something unsafely for decades and they’re not exposed to other methods because their co-workers are their children then how are they to learn better ways? I’m sure they will be consulting with neighboring farmers but still that limits them, more is better and if it’s made mandatory at least some will get in line. I won’t delude myself into thinking everyone will fall into 100% compliance (heck, without seeing the legislation I won’t know which parts are good and which are written by safety people who simply needed to write something to pass the time, but there will be useful things to glean from it)

[Habfan]

Originally Posted by mac1983

That was truly sad, and the parents will have to live with that forever. Never did hear what happened, hard to see how o,h,&s regs would have prevented that one.

OH & S rules say you must have a ladder inside grain trucks. Also full grain trucks are to be covered with a roll off tarp !

[raab]

Originally Posted by bat119

Happens more than you think

306 Farm-related fatalities in Alberta 1997-2014. Children accounted for 19%

http://www.abfarmsafety.com/resources/statistics.htm

Wonder how many people in the general public die at home....


I agree with others in the agriculture industry needing to be regulated by OHS standards, but family farms should not be part of that. There's a MASSIVE difference between working at Cargill or at a Grain elevator, versus a family farm with maybe one or two employees at any given time.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Bushmaster

A couple of points....


This legislation was written by the PC govt. and enacted by the NDP.

This legislation only affects farms who hire non-relatives. Family farms are exempt. Meaning 75% of Alberta farms are exempt.

As of Jan. 2016 it was mandatory for farms with non relative employees to carry WCB.

There definitely was consultation. That's what the 6 TWG's(Technical Working Groups) were for.

And you think family farms wanted to join the most useless bureaucracy in government being the WCB? We should have followed Saskatchewan's legislation and had the option of WCB or private insurers. And who cares if the PC's drew it up, they were Blue Liberals under Redford.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

There is often heard shouts of:

• That is the way it has been always done
• I learned how to do it that way
• It is held together by bailing wire and duct tape just like always
• Getting hurt is just part of farm life
• Kids gotta learn about the real world sometime
• I know it is dangerous but I am just extra careful
• If I did it your way I would never get the work done
• Who are you to tell me I am not safe
• I don't have time to waste on safety...

Folks.

Safety is not an argument. SAFETY IS THE ONLY WAY.

Implementing safe practices is key to coming home from work alive. Regardless of profession.

If you are not safe...there has to be some sort of penalty to make those incapable of working smart to make them work safer...outside of the penalty of being hurt or killed.

So rather than whine about government legislating change on the family farm...how would you all constructively address this problem to fix it?

You can't say let the farmers do what they have always done...because some are not not working safely.

SDF

Maybe the government should come to your house and tell you how to change a light bulb or tie your shoes! O maybe your kitchens not clean enough and could have an effect on your health. This could tax the health system, so IMO the government should inspect every kitchen in the province to ensure they're following the standard for cleanliness. I know this seems like overkill, but if it saves just one life!

[Bushmaster]

Nowhere in my post did I say what I think....I just stated what is.

Don't understand it but most farm owners tell me that WCB protects them more than it does their workers.

And the only reason I mentioned the PC vs. NDP thing is because everyone blames the NDP for Bill 6. I'm certainly no fan of the NDP....but in this case they were not the culprits.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Bushmaster

Nowhere in my post did I say what I think....I just stated what is.

Don't understand it but most farm owners tell me that WCB protects them more than it does their workers.

And the only reason I mentioned the PC vs. NDP thing is because everyone blames the NDP for Bill 6. I'm certainly no fan of the NDP....but in this case they were not the culprits.

WCB is for protection of the farmer as it ensures if anything happens to a worker on their farm they can't personally be sued and lose everything. Doesn't mean there aren't private insurance companies who do the same thing for MUCH cheaper, and probably better for the employee. Its well known how WCB takes care of the worker(they dont).

[Bushmaster]

Yes, I've heard many sketchy stories about WCB.

[mac1983]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

We're from the government. We're here to help.

Think of the children.......

Best quote of the day award.

[mac1983]

Originally Posted by raab

Maybe the government should come to your house and tell you how to change a light bulb or tie your shoes! O maybe your kitchens not clean enough and could have an effect on your health. This could tax the health system, so IMO the government should inspect every kitchen in the province to ensure they're following the standard for cleanliness. I know this seems like overkill, but if it saves just one life!

Second best quote of the day award.

It will be a cold day in hell when the Government takes my land away.

Thanks to Mr. Charleton Heston for that quote