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View Poll Results: Allow .223Ē diam. bullets as new min. for hunting?
Yes 140 38.25%
No 207 56.56%
Undecided 19 5.19%
Voters: 366. You may not vote on this poll

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  #271  
Old 08-08-2018, 11:47 PM
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I think 99% of the guys on here would be ethical in their use of a .223 in both distance and bullet selection.

Regulation are normally developed taking the worst case scenario or the lowest common denominator.

Look at the 45-70. SAAMI has the pressures really low to accommodate the trap door rifles. Even though 90% (or higher) of the 45-70 in use today could take much higher pressures. They need to set these low pressure so some idiot doesn't load a factory round in an old 45-70 and have a failure.

What happens when a guys uses a 40 grain Hornady Varmint Express, as opposed to a TSX? Unfortunately we are stuck abiding by the same rules designed to keep people from being idiots.
  #272  
Old 08-08-2018, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Finally ! He's on to it !! Why not just call it a heavy for caliber bullet and be done with it? They come with their own higher SD's and more momentum.

First off thanks mods for cleaning up and not locking this! Thereís important info here so right on.

Salavee, heavy for caliber is a great rule of thumb also, Iím with that, but you can take it further...Iím with that even more!

Just as the 1000 ft/lb rules have worked well...they did so out of ignorance FYI. The info I talk about has been around a long time...but not easy to kill old institutions regardless.
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  #273  
Old 08-08-2018, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoseto View Post
Hahahahaha!!!
This just keeps getting better.

I canít help but wonder how the conversation would be different around a table.
Yes, much wine would be consumed, many laughs, a few diagrams and maybe even a few punches thrown lol. But for the love of all this gun and hunting stuff weíd still be brothers like it or not.
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****1000 Club****

The Unofficially Official DEER CLUB for BOWHUNTERS.
Any combination of deer species
P&Y measuring standards, Net Inches Only
Meeting the P&Y minimums to qualify
Up to 7 deer totalling 1000" or higher
1000 is Level 1, 2000, 3000...is attainable!

1000 Club w/6, also 700 Muley Club(w/bow), 1 deer away from 2000 Club!
  #274  
Old 08-08-2018, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rem338win View Post
The fact that people are still jabbering nonsense in the face of testimony just so they can feel uber about their damned opinion on this thread is an epic example of why the future is Fubar.

The .223 is as least as effective as a 30-30 and to a further reasonable range. Having used .22 cals and the 30-30 on deer sized game and seen more taken I say it with the authority of experience.

All of the responsible industry professionals of the modern age I could find (in a very quick Google search mind you) that have used one said the same damn thing.

I'm waiting for someone on this to argue flat earth with astronauts next......you guys are hilarious.
Fav post of thread! That first paragraph...yes✌️

My next fav post might have been Kurt asking if salavee knew where he was lol. Salavee you gotta admit that was funny😉, and chuck has some dandies too. Art imo😂

Just looked for a couple of chucks posts, maybe abrasive but didnít see why deleted? He made good point, Iíll leave it alone.
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Grendel Grendel bo bendel, banana fanna fo fendel, me my mo mendel.....GRENDELLL

****1000 Club****

The Unofficially Official DEER CLUB for BOWHUNTERS.
Any combination of deer species
P&Y measuring standards, Net Inches Only
Meeting the P&Y minimums to qualify
Up to 7 deer totalling 1000" or higher
1000 is Level 1, 2000, 3000...is attainable!

1000 Club w/6, also 700 Muley Club(w/bow), 1 deer away from 2000 Club!

Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 08-09-2018 at 12:06 AM.
  #275  
Old 08-09-2018, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
For some reason this comes to mind.

You sure showed him........ bahahaha!

You should not choke your chicken in public......

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  #276  
Old 08-09-2018, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
Fav post of thread! That first paragraph...yes✌️

My next fav post might have been Kurt asking if salavee knew where he was lol. Salavee you gotta admit that was funny😉, and chuck has some dandies too. Art imo😂

Just looked for a couple of chucks posts, maybe abrasive but didnít see why deleted? He made good point, Iíll leave it alone.
I requested it.
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  #277  
Old 08-09-2018, 07:54 AM
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✌️
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Grendel Grendel bo bendel, banana fanna fo fendel, me my mo mendel.....GRENDELLL

****1000 Club****

The Unofficially Official DEER CLUB for BOWHUNTERS.
Any combination of deer species
P&Y measuring standards, Net Inches Only
Meeting the P&Y minimums to qualify
Up to 7 deer totalling 1000" or higher
1000 is Level 1, 2000, 3000...is attainable!

1000 Club w/6, also 700 Muley Club(w/bow), 1 deer away from 2000 Club!
  #278  
Old 08-09-2018, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
Yes, much wine would be consumed, many laughs, a few diagrams and maybe even a few punches thrown lol. But for the love of all this gun and hunting stuff weíd still be brothers like it or not.
Did you say wine?
Who drinks wine?

Honestly this thread should have been shut down a long time ago
Itís the same as the other 10 page 223 for hunting thread.
Same guys trying to show off or act like they are know more than everyone else
  #279  
Old 08-09-2018, 09:05 AM
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Lmfao

🤦

Hornady, while Alberta struggles to get up to speed, can you bring out the 22 Creedmoor please.(itíll be the magnum equivalent to the Valkyrie)😉
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Grendel Grendel bo bendel, banana fanna fo fendel, me my mo mendel.....GRENDELLL

****1000 Club****

The Unofficially Official DEER CLUB for BOWHUNTERS.
Any combination of deer species
P&Y measuring standards, Net Inches Only
Meeting the P&Y minimums to qualify
Up to 7 deer totalling 1000" or higher
1000 is Level 1, 2000, 3000...is attainable!

1000 Club w/6, also 700 Muley Club(w/bow), 1 deer away from 2000 Club!
  #280  
Old 08-09-2018, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marky_mark View Post
Honestly this thread should have been shut down a long time ago
Itís the same as the other 10 page 223 for hunting thread.
Same guys trying to show off or act like they are know more than everyone else
And yet you continue to comment?
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  #281  
Old 08-09-2018, 01:10 PM
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Bump to the top....
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An awful lot of big game was killed with the .30-06 including the big bears before everyone became affluent enough to own a rifle for every species of game they might hunt.
  #282  
Old 08-09-2018, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
You should not choke your chicken in public......



Well......


Did you see the size of it???
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  #283  
Old 08-09-2018, 06:18 PM
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My long time friend offers this saying for those of us that have the wrong gun, cartrage, and caliber.

"Welcome to my World."

LOL
  #284  
Old 08-09-2018, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marky_mark View Post
Did you say wine?

Who drinks wine?



Honestly this thread should have been shut down a long time ago

Itís the same as the other 10 page 223 for hunting thread.

Same guys trying to show off or act like they are know more than everyone else


Just to clarify, who are the guys trying to show off or act like they know more than everyone else? The guys that have killed or witnessed others killing deer with the 223?
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  #285  
Old 08-09-2018, 09:09 PM
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Late to this thread.

Not sure if its been mentioned but Sask just change the rules here.

Can use 223, 22-250 220 swift and larger varmint case lengths. 1.25" minimum case length.

The ones still a no go 17 calibre, the 22 hornet , 218 Bee amongst others.
  #286  
Old 08-09-2018, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 220 Swift View Post
Late to this thread.

Not sure if its been mentioned but Sask just change the rules here.

Can use 223, 22-250 220 swift and larger varmint case lengths. 1.25" minimum case length.

The ones still a no go 17 calibre, the 22 hornet , 218 Bee amongst others.
Look at that Chuck! If you move there you will have it all!
  #287  
Old 08-09-2018, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyksta View Post
Look at that Chuck! If you move there you will have it all!



This was on the website.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  #288  
Old 08-09-2018, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoseto View Post
Just to clarify, who are the guys trying to show off or act like they know more than everyone else? The guys that have killed or witnessed others killing deer with the 223?
Once upon a time, long long ago, I may or may not have been part of a domestic whitetail deer cull. May have been 40+. Veterinarian supervised of course. Barbituates weren't going to cut it. .22 mag may have done the trick.
Would that be experience?
Yeah there is a difference between a .22 mag and a .223, I get that. Not enough IMO. Would work well in some scenarios, but not all.

Gotta draw a line somehere. I'm good with .240 minimum
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Last edited by MountainTi; 08-09-2018 at 09:35 PM.
  #289  
Old 08-09-2018, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
Once upon a time, long long ago, I may or may not have been part of a domestic whitetail deer cull. May have been 40+. Veterinarian supervised of course. Barbituates weren't going to cut it. .22 mag may have done the trick.
Would that be experience?
Yeah there is a difference between a .22 mag and a .223, I get that. Not enough IMO. Would work well in some scenarios, but not all.

Gotta draw a line somehere. I'm good with .240 minimum
Would the difference between a .22 mag and a .223 be like comparing a .223 to a .240?
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  #290  
Old 08-10-2018, 01:11 AM
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Even though I trust the numbers completely, I have to say seeing a vid like the .22-250 53 gr vs the 375 h&h 300 gr in milk jugs is still eye opening. By a lot of accounts here youíd think the .22-250 would struggle with 1 jug let alone explode five. Itís a fairly dramatic way to show exactly what Iíve sumply been trying to further info on.

Marky mark, not trying to do anything other than educate, sorry you take it a different way. This ballistics talk isnít to turn anyone or push an agenda, itís to see it a little differently and dare I say accurately.

Iím quite surprised at the high speed mono performance actually, I know the numbers show the expected in that the 375 will go further but the explosiveness on those jugs from both tell quite a story. Even without first hand accounts on game to verify.

Iíd still take a grendel or should I say slower with much higher s.d. As most versatile over any of the .22cfs even though muzzle energy nearly identical to .22-250. The numbers show as any other high speed light weight does...one trick ponies. Great pbr, lightning effect, and perfectly suited to that knowledge or limitation. I ask more from my powder though. Iíd rather be a little less impressive in pbr to hold potential to much further for dialing up longer if needed. But both schools are effective in their limits. Iíd say the lightweight speed camp will see more spectacular performance in its narrower node, but the other will astonish at distances most wouldnít imagine possible.

This is what the numbers tell me. Energy/diam./momentum are useless figures. Iím not wrong, they can guide you correctly but inefficiently and inaccurately. Thatís all Iím trying to show. S.d. And impact velocity is where itís at. Bullet construction a given.
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Grendel Grendel bo bendel, banana fanna fo fendel, me my mo mendel.....GRENDELLL

****1000 Club****

The Unofficially Official DEER CLUB for BOWHUNTERS.
Any combination of deer species
P&Y measuring standards, Net Inches Only
Meeting the P&Y minimums to qualify
Up to 7 deer totalling 1000" or higher
1000 is Level 1, 2000, 3000...is attainable!

1000 Club w/6, also 700 Muley Club(w/bow), 1 deer away from 2000 Club!
  #291  
Old 08-10-2018, 01:14 AM
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The more I look at this the more I support the change like sask did. Seriously.
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Grendel Grendel bo bendel, banana fanna fo fendel, me my mo mendel.....GRENDELLL

****1000 Club****

The Unofficially Official DEER CLUB for BOWHUNTERS.
Any combination of deer species
P&Y measuring standards, Net Inches Only
Meeting the P&Y minimums to qualify
Up to 7 deer totalling 1000" or higher
1000 is Level 1, 2000, 3000...is attainable!

1000 Club w/6, also 700 Muley Club(w/bow), 1 deer away from 2000 Club!
  #292  
Old 08-10-2018, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
Once upon a time, long long ago, I may or may not have been part of a domestic whitetail deer cull. May have been 40+. Veterinarian supervised of course. Barbituates weren't going to cut it. .22 mag may have done the trick.
Would that be experience?
Yeah there is a difference between a .22 mag and a .223, I get that. Not enough IMO. Would work well in some scenarios, but not all.

Gotta draw a line somehere. I'm good with .240 minimum
There is a lot of difference. And that difference is easily discernible to those who have used both.
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  #293  
Old 08-10-2018, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
Would the difference between a .22 mag and a .223 be like comparing a .223 to a .240?
Actually no. The 223 has five times the case capacity of the 22 mag. Itís like comparing the 223 to the 338 Lapua.
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  #294  
Old 08-10-2018, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Actually no. The 223 has five times the case capacity of the 22 mag. Itís like comparing the 223 to the 338 Lapua.
The .22 mag is a proven deer killer. 40 for 40 (that is real world experience Chuck)......should it be legal? If not....why not? Anybody?
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  #295  
Old 08-10-2018, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
There is a lot of difference. And that difference is easily discernible to those who have used both.
Don't actually have a lot of experience with a .223. Done a bit of plinking with an AR, that's about it.
22/250 mind you.....different story
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  #296  
Old 08-10-2018, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Actually no. The 223 has five times the case capacity of the 22 mag. Itís like comparing the 223 to the 338 Lapua.
So you're saying comparing the .22mag with 324ft/lbs of energy to the .223 with 1333ft/lbs of energy (just a little over 4x the energy difference) isn't really a good comparison?

If you look at just over all ft/lbs of energy the 223 has about 1000ft/lbs more

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_...Magnum_Rimfire

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington

And the Swede has about 1000 ft/lbs more than the 223

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5◊55mm_Swedish


So it would be like saying "I have a ton of expirience shooting critters with a 223, it's pretty much the same as the swede".

Probably not the most accurate statement.
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Last edited by Kurt505; 08-10-2018 at 06:49 AM.
  #297  
Old 08-10-2018, 07:59 AM
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Old Timer and I are off to the range to sight in the 22 rimfires for Elk, and garbage 308's for Chickens and Rabbits. Dam,,, that auto correct got things mixed up again,,, oh well.

The Northern hunt is closing in fast, lots of pre season scouting, visit will friends and family up there, and enjoy the good times.

It's the best we can do.

Funny thing is the theme song for Bonanza was playing out in my pumpkin last night. LOL

https://youtu.be/bczfyoafHBk
  #298  
Old 08-10-2018, 08:03 AM
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Energy has nothing to do with this😉

But if we want to blur centerfire with rimfire then throw some archery gear in there too.

Rimfire isnít throwing enough s.d. With enough impact velocity to play in these discussions. I know of plenty of big game killed off horse with .22lr and solids in the ear, well heard the stories long ago. But in no instance have I recommended an inadequate s.d. Or impact velocity for big game hunting here including our typical ranges we hunt. When does the 22mag drop below 1600 fps? Lol sure you can execute just about anything with one but hunting? Nah
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****1000 Club****

The Unofficially Official DEER CLUB for BOWHUNTERS.
Any combination of deer species
P&Y measuring standards, Net Inches Only
Meeting the P&Y minimums to qualify
Up to 7 deer totalling 1000" or higher
1000 is Level 1, 2000, 3000...is attainable!

1000 Club w/6, also 700 Muley Club(w/bow), 1 deer away from 2000 Club!

Last edited by Stinky Coyote; 08-10-2018 at 08:17 AM.
  #299  
Old 08-10-2018, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post

Rimfire isnít throwing enough s.d. With enough impact velocity to play in these discussions. I know of plenty of big game killed off horse with .22lr and solids in the ear, well heard the stories long ago. But in no instance have I recommended an inadequate s.d. Or impact velocity for big game hunting here including our typical ranges we hunt. When does the 22mag drop below 1600 fps? Lol sure you can execute just about anything with one but hunting? Nah
Experience says it does the job. Who said anything about behind the ear or head shots?
You drawing a line SC? What factors into this imaginary line you have drawn (not interested in hearing your theories on S.D) ...IN YOUR OPINION?
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  #300  
Old 08-10-2018, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
The .22 mag is a proven deer killer. 40 for 40 (that is real world experience Chuck)......should it be legal? If not....why not? Anybody?
Anybody?
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