Prairie Bighorns Possible

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by ovis40

It was more like SRD approached FNAWS Ab, and asked to have a meeting for funding. FNAWS Ab. agreed to a meeting in Red Deer. When asked, SRD said they wanted to get the transplant sheep from along Lake Abraham...!!! FNAWS Ab. said if the sheep don't come from Cadomin then we aren't interested, if you change your mind call us and left. I think FNAWS Ab. phone was ringing before they got home. From there things went forward and the job got done a whole lot cheeper than if SRD did it on thier own.

I just quoted from the Alberta Wild Sheep Foundations web site. I dont know the particulars on how the transplant went just what is documented on their web site.

SG

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

so the moneys are being used to feed cougars,wolves and university students,LOL STUDY THIS,STUDY THAT. it's a make work project and they are going to delay making decisions that may have an impact on their ability to make a living in the future.

You are a real peice of work, I love every time you post! The more that you post the more your lack of knowledge really shines through. Another wanna be that contributes nothing but criticises everything else that is tried.

So do you think that the up possible changes to the cougar quotas is a delay? Seems to me they are making steps to improve what you supposibly hunt? If guys can keep from killing females there is a chance for alot more cat hunting as quotas wont fill as quick. Part of that is due to the collaring program that us sheep hunters have help fund! Part of that is to try and lower cat populations in areas of sheep habitat and help sheep populations. Its a step in the right direction but obviously you know better than any one and have helped fund many projects right?

SG

[Tatonka]

Originally Posted by steve

These Montana rams everyone gets all excited about, graze in wheat fields and hang out on the river breaks during the day. The back of their horns crack and fill with maggots and rot to the core. They die soon after, I seen a 4yr. old 196'' ram that was about to die. Montana cannot grow a ram over 10yrs old where these big farmland/river break rams live. Not a hunt or a ram I'd be interested in.

I would like to see sheep transplanted to the badlands before more of our Luscar sheep leave the province. Unfortunately I don't see it happening.

Now that's one I've never heard...... Lived here within an hour of The Breaks for over 30 years and I've not once heard anyone say anything about the sheep dieing young because of maggots (or dieing young for any reason). Can you document what you are saying? Have you actually been in the Missouri River Breaks? I'm guessing not..... A 4 year old ram that scored
196"?

[steve]

Originally Posted by Tatonka

Now that's one I've never heard...... Lived here within an hour of The Breaks for over 30 years and I've not once heard anyone say anything about the sheep dieing young because of maggots (or dieing young for any reason). Can you document what you are saying? Have you actually been in the Missouri River Breaks? I'm guessing not..... A 4 year old ram that scored
196"?

Yes this is all coming directly from a person that guides the ministers tag and anyone lucky enough to draw a tag down there.

Have you killed a ram on the breaks?

[ovis40]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

I just quoted from the Alberta Wild Sheep Foundations web site. I dont know the particulars on how the transplant went just what is documented on their web site.

SG

No problem. I just wanted to show how SRD doesn't think.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by ovis40

No problem. I just wanted to show how SRD doesn't think.

Gotcha and I see where ya were going LOL

[Tatonka]

Originally Posted by steve

Yes this is all coming directly from a person that guides the ministers tag and anyone lucky enough to draw a tag down there.

Have you killed a ram on the breaks?

No, haven't been lucky enough to draw a tag. I've seen some rams from the breaks that local hunters have taken over the years. I've never seen nor heard of magots in the horns... hearsay. Show me proof positive, not what someone says. I've never heard of a "Ministers Tag" either. Is that a Canadian term? If we accept something that comes directly from another person as proof positive, we're all in trouble....and that includes me.

I'm confused as to why you would badmouth the bighorn sheep hunting in Montana. What's with that? I'm not sure what your idea of what sheep hunting is like in the breaks, but I get the impression that you think it's just a matter of driving up to a wheatfield and shooting a monster sheep. I know of no one who has ever killed a ram in an agricultural field of any kind. I've heard that the sheep will feed in a grain field, but I've never actually seen sheep feeding in the grain fields. The Missouri River Breaks is tough hunting....very steep canyons. I've hunted the mountains (deer and elk) as well as the Breaks. Neither are easy to hunt, but to me the mountains are a little easier. Once you climb and get up high you can stay up high. In the Breaks just about the time you reach the top of a canyon, you have to drop down 500 feet or more and climb again...and again, and again.....it's constantly up the side of one canyon and down the other side and back up again and the footing is terrible...loose dirt you slide around in......and if it rains, you're done hunting. You can go nowhere in the breaks when it rains. Gumbo city......

LOL...if it's any consolation tatonka, if I ever draw a tag down there, I'll be down in a heartbeat.......those are some awesome looking rams that live in a very unique landscape! Looks like an awesome hunt to me

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by cacty

1800's really? You do know the traders were there then, and the ranching community arrived 1880.

Yah, I know a bit about the area's settlement years. I am fortunate to know a few ranching families that survived the winter of 1906.

I have a book ( or had, may have lent it out) that has accounts of the last Audubon Bighorns in the Cypress Hills, from the very early 1800's.

[crazyfish]

THe funny part is how we seem to be poking fun at what sounds like an easy hunt , when the opposite sounds like the truth. This sounds alot like the thread about the ministers tag and hunting Cadomin and others bashing Archie's ram, bunch of guys saying shootung a ram off a reclaimed mine was like shooting gophers in a field, as soon as they pop they;re heads over the line whack'em ! When the opposite again is the truth !

I'm not sure that our badlands are a "suitable" habitat for them. (IMO) ( not biologist) Was this part of the sheep's historical territory? If so then maybe we should try to re-introduce them there ! if it is and the other issues can be dealt with,( farmers/domestic shep contact/ access) then why not try! But if the only reason is to have a future ram hunt that maybe produces bigger rams that are easier to hunt , then it's not a great idea in my books !

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Tatonka

No, haven't been lucky enough to draw a tag. I've seen some rams from the breaks that local hunters have taken over the years. I've never seen nor heard of magots in the horns... hearsay. Show me proof positive, not what someone says. I've never heard of a "Ministers Tag" either. Is that a Canadian term? If we accept something that comes directly from another person as proof positive, we're all in trouble....and that includes me.

I'm confused as to why you would badmouth the bighorn sheep hunting in Montana. What's with that? I'm not sure what your idea of what sheep hunting is like in the breaks, but I get the impression that you think it's just a matter of driving up to a wheatfield and shooting a monster sheep. I know of no one who has ever killed a ram in an agricultural field of any kind. I've heard that the sheep will feed in a grain field, but I've never actually seen sheep feeding in the grain fields. The Missouri River Breaks is tough hunting....very steep canyons. I've hunted the mountains (deer and elk) as well as the Breaks. Neither are easy to hunt, but to me the mountains are a little easier. Once you climb and get up high you can stay up high. In the Breaks just about the time you reach the top of a canyon, you have to drop down 500 feet or more and climb again...and again, and again.....it's constantly up the side of one canyon and down the other side and back up again and the footing is terrible...loose dirt you slide around in......and if it rains, you're done hunting. You can go nowhere in the breaks when it rains. Gumbo city......

The "Minister Tag" is a canadian(Alberta) term. It what the Alberta Bighorn tag auctioned of at the Wild Sheep Foundation Convention in Reno is referred to as. They also auction one for Montana(what Steve is refering to) but it isnt called a minister tag.

Im with the crowd that see's Montana as beeing a definate possiblity for a new world record. The state is producing some monster rams and is just a matter of time before it hits that majic number.

I think what many guys hold agains Montana is that many/most of the herds that are producing these huge rams started from transplanted Alberta sheep. We have held the Bighorn record for ever so many feel threatened that there is a chance to loose that and its easier to discredit then look at the accomlishments.

SG

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

The "Minister Tag" is a canadian(Alberta) term. It what the Alberta Bighorn tag auctioned of at the Wild Sheep Foundation Convention in Reno is referred to as. They also auction one for Montana(what Steve is refering to) but it isnt called a minister tag.

Isn't it called the Governors tag? Watched Best of the West last night and the hunter had this tag and I believe he was was hunting the breaks. Beautiful looking country.

Originally Posted by Huntnut

Isn't it called the Governors tag? Watched Best of the West last night and the hunter had this tag and I believe he was was hunting the breaks. Beautiful looking country.

I think that was a Wyoming show you saw last night but you are correct that the U.S. tags are called Governor's Tags and the Alberta and BC licences are called Minister's Permits.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Huntnut

Isn't it called the Governors tag? Watched Best of the West last night and the hunter had this tag and I believe he was was hunting the breaks. Beautiful looking country.

Ya Ive heard many of the tags referred to as Goveners tags also. On the auction listings at Reno it isnt refered to as that though. Its just called the State of Montana Bighorn Sheep License.

SG

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I think that was a Wyoming show you saw last night .

You are probably right-I thought i heard them say something about the Missouri Breaks and just assumed.

[Chet]

I put a tape to one of those Missouri breaks rams for a guy a couple months ago. One horn was over 6" shorter than the other and it still netted over 190". The ram was over 8 1/2 years old and his horns in good shape (other than being heavily broomed on the one side) It sounded like a fun hunt. I would love to pull a tag down there.

[steve]

Nothing against Montana break rams, their habitat or the access to them.

I would be down there in a heartbeat if I drew at tag, like TJ said.

This info regarding maggots and the shorter life due to maggots came directly from a guy that capes out a breaks ram every year. He said the big rams they kill have no more then a couple months of life left, and a pile of rams simply dissapear.

They have great feed and genetics and put on bone fast.

I can't disagree with someone who watches them year round and packs a couple out a year. If you do, that's fine with me.

Originally Posted by Tatonka

No, haven't been lucky enough to draw a tag. I've seen some rams from the breaks that local hunters have taken over the years. I've never seen nor heard of magots in the horns... hearsay. Show me proof positive, not what someone says. I've never heard of a "Ministers Tag" either. Is that a Canadian term? If we accept something that comes directly from another person as proof positive, we're all in trouble....and that includes me.

I'm confused as to why you would badmouth the bighorn sheep hunting in Montana. What's with that? I'm not sure what your idea of what sheep hunting is like in the breaks, but I get the impression that you think it's just a matter of driving up to a wheatfield and shooting a monster sheep. I know of no one who has ever killed a ram in an agricultural field of any kind. I've heard that the sheep will feed in a grain field, but I've never actually seen sheep feeding in the grain fields. The Missouri River Breaks is tough hunting....very steep canyons. I've hunted the mountains (deer and elk) as well as the Breaks. Neither are easy to hunt, but to me the mountains are a little easier. Once you climb and get up high you can stay up high. In the Breaks just about the time you reach the top of a canyon, you have to drop down 500 feet or more and climb again...and again, and again.....it's constantly up the side of one canyon and down the other side and back up again and the footing is terrible...loose dirt you slide around in......and if it rains, you're done hunting. You can go nowhere in the breaks when it rains. Gumbo city......

[sheepguide]

Here is a great river breaks ram. Looks healthy and doesnt appear to have any horn cracking or problems. Dont get much better than this anywhere.


http://www.gothunts.com/misouri-breaks-monster/

SG

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

instead of big horn sheep why not try introduceing something like the Aoudad sheep, and axis deer, into those areas???

[steve]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Here is a great river breaks ram. Looks healthy and doesnt appear to have any horn cracking or problems. Dont get much better than this anywhere.


http://www.gothunts.com/misouri-breaks-monster/

SG

X2 that's a toad.

I saw a pick up once from Cadomin where the horn cores had been eaten by maggots but that ram was nearly 50" and over 14 years old. All the Montana rams I've seen looked pretty healthy to me and I've definitely seen some with some age on them but I'm sure maggots occasionally happen down there as well. No doubt some of those rams can grow fast though. They have had book rams at 5.5 years I know.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by steve

X2 that's a toad.

Yep the type of porn wet dreams are made of!!!!!!!!!

[Cowtown guy]

I was under the assumption that maggots only ate dead flesh.

I would have thought the cores were actually still "living."

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Cowtown guy

I was under the assumption that maggots only ate dead flesh.

that's true, that is why we used to use them to clean nasty infected wounds.

[sheepguide]

Here is some pics of a Montana ram that another member forwarded to me. It appears to possibly have the issues that Steve described above.

image001.jpg

image002.jpg

image003.jpg

image004.jpg

SG

Originally Posted by Cowtown guy

I was under the assumption that maggots only ate dead flesh.

I would have thought the cores were actually still "living."

Blow flies will lay eggs in an open wound and the maggots hatch. I've seen thousands of them under dog's skin slowly eating the dog alive. No different with sheep I'm guesing.

[Neil Waugh]

So TJ you're an Alberta Fish and Game Association employee, is there a resolution on this weekend's convention agenda calling for an aggressive repopulation program for big horns in their extirpated range on the Red Deer, Oldman, South Saskatchewan, Cypress Hills, Milk River range?
All three parks (Cypress and Dinosaur, Writing-on-Stone) would make perfect refuges for a herd development project. Just like Suffield did for the prairie elk.
The Luscar mine preserve has already been identified as a viable source for the surplus animals.
Of course the answer is no. Am I right?

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Here is a great river breaks ram. Looks healthy and doesnt appear to have any horn cracking or problems. Dont get much better than this anywhere.


http://www.gothunts.com/misouri-breaks-monster/

SG

Wasn't that the Ram that was taken away because of some illegal activities by Mr. Lewton?

[rightroad]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Here is a great river breaks ram. Looks healthy and doesnt appear to have any horn cracking or problems. Dont get much better than this anywhere.


http://www.gothunts.com/misouri-breaks-monster/

SG

Can't argue with that. That's a nice animal, wished we had sheep in our bad lands like that.

[rightroad]

Originally Posted by Neil Waugh

So TJ you're an Alberta Fish and Game Association employee, is there a resolution on this weekend's convention agenda calling for an aggressive repopulation program for big horns in their extirpated range on the Red Deer, Oldman, South Saskatchewan, Cypress Hills, Milk River range?
All three parks (Cypress and Dinosaur, Writing-on-Stone) would make perfect refuges for a herd development project. Just like Suffield did for the prairie elk.
The Luscar mine preserve has already been identified as a viable source for the surplus animals.
Of course the answer is no. Am I right?

Sounds like an awesome plan to me. I wonder if the lack of big predators on the prairie would help recovery?