Shot placement question

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by 209x50

As politely as possible I ask you to consider that age is no factor in how much experience a hunter has. I've hunted in all the same decades as you but know hunters half my age with more experience around the world.

With all due respect, of course age is a factor. I too know people half my age who have more experience then I do.

But that's not because age isn't a factor, but because opportunity is a bigger factor, and they had opportunities I didn't. Just as I and Big-River had opportunities many here didn't.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I killed the biggest bull elk of my life this fall with a single high shoulder shot at 210 yards. The super uber magnum I used? A 130 grain Berger VLD out of a 260 AI.

209...a question.
did you choose that shot over boiler room for any particular reason?
After all the debate over the shoulder shot on big bears I have concluded that \i may try that one.
For an animal that will be eaten I would probably let it walk before shooting it high in the shoulder. well maybe not....but you know what i mean
Unless he was going to run somewhere where it would be impossible to retrieve I think a bleed out heart/lung shot is optimal with no meat loss.

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by big-river

Been there, done that. That's all I'm saying.

I'm hoping the chest-puffing is over and the discussion can go back to bullets and shot placement soon.....

[209x50]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

With all due respect, of course age is a factor. I too know people half my age who have more experience then I do.

But that's not because age isn't a factor, but because opportunity is a bigger factor, and they had opportunities I didn't. Just as I and Big-River had opportunities many here didn't.

Sorry but did you read what you posted? You say age is a factor even though you know people half your age with more experience than you. I'd say that meant that age wasn't a factor but experience was. But maybe I didn't read your post correctly.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by 209x50

But maybe I didn't read your post correctly.

Obviously you didn't. What part of the last sentence do you not understand?

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

But that's not because age isn't a factor, but because opportunity is a bigger factor, and they had opportunities I didn't. Just as I and Big-River had opportunities many here didn't.

Okay...so its opportunity...and NOT age thats a factor....kinda two contradicting statements in your post, but I'm gonna agree that age isnt a factor at all.....

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

209...a question.
did you choose that shot over boiler room for any particular reason?
After all the debate over the shoulder shot on big bears I have concluded that \i may try that one.
For an animal that will be eaten I would probably let it walk before shooting it high in the shoulder. well maybe not....but you know what i mean
Unless he was going to run somewhere where it would be impossible to retrieve I think a bleed out heart/lung shot is optimal with no meat loss.

Yes I did choose that shot. You can see the shot in Episode 13 of the show this year. I waited until he stood and I leveled him. It is my shot of choice and given the right circumstances, the one I'll take every time. My whitetail this year was slightly quartered away with his near front leg stepped forward, the perfect shot then was the heart and he died mid air on the third leap.
Which ever shot placement you chose, practice gives you the confidence to place the bullet accurately.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

Okay...so its opportunity...and NOT age thats a factor....kinda two contradicting statements in your post, but I'm gonna agree that age isnt a factor at all.....

Well I suppose it's all in how you define factor.

By the way, where is it written that it has to be one or the other. Why can't both be factors?

To me saying ones age is not a factor in their level of experience is like saying the number of days they get to hunt is not a factor. That just doesn't make any sense.

But it's not worth arguing over. You define it any way you wish. I'm sure the universe will survive whatever you come up with.

[Rocks]

I haven't shot any what's considered dangerous game. But for big game, I've been using the shoulder shot occasionally for the last few years with spectacularly devastating results with the animal dropping on the spot just like the old base of the skull shot.

Now all the times I have tried it have been when I have time before the shot, and with the animal broadside or slightly quartering to or away. All other situations, or when the shot is in a hurry, I naturally gravitate back to the boiler room shot as that is what I've trained myself to do over the years.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Rocks

I haven't shot any what's considered dangerous game. But for big game, I've been using the shoulder shot occasionally for the last few years with spectacularly devastating results with the animal dropping on the spot just like the old base of the skull shot.

Now all the times I have tried it have been when I have time before the shot, and with the animal broadside or slightly quartering to or away. All other situations, or when the shot is in a hurry, I naturally gravitate back to the boiler room shot as that is what I've trained myself to do over the years.

Thank you Rocks. That's what I'm talking about.

I may not be a shoulder shot fan, but I like your response.

[Rocks]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Thank you Rocks. That's what I'm talking about.

I may not be a shoulder shot fan, but I like your response.

Well you should try it if you get the chance, it works.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Rocks

Well you should try it if you get the chance, it works.

Okay, you guys win. I can see that shoulder shots are the only acceptable shots on this site. I concede defeat.

Of course you are right Rocks. I must have never tried a shoulder shot or I would be a fan wouldn't I.

I'll rectify that right away. Sir.

And you wonder why there is so much fighting on this site.

More the half a dozen cheap shots directed at me in the last two pages.
What a bunch of heros.

[BrownBear416]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Okay, you guys win. I can see that shoulder shots are the only acceptable shots on this site. I concede defeat.

Of course you are right Rocks. I must have never tried a shoulder shot or I would be a fan wouldn't I.

I'll rectify that right away. Sir.

And you wonder why there is so much fighting on this site.

More the half a dozen cheap shots directed at me in the last two pages.
What a bunch of heros.

I think your giving as good as your getting

And I think Rocks post had zero sarcasm and he was simply saying you should try the shot if you get a chance...

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Best of luck guys. The thread is yours.

KegRiver....you need to breathe. Too many times I've watched you get all emotional about minor topics. You make several comments and then get ultra-defensive when someone posts something contradictory to your way of thinking. Often times, it results in overboard reactions that I would think would be quite embarrassing...

You need a thicker skin if you're looking to debate topics where not everyone agrees with you....its getting old. You're not always the victim...

[KegRiver]

A thicker skin would certainly be an asset on threads like this, rackmastr.

Something in the range of Rhino skin perhaps.

Yeah I get a little, okay, a lot emotional about some subjects. I know I have a deficit when it comes to getting my ideas across. It is terribly frustrating to make every effort to make a point and avoid an argument only to find myself in the middle of an argument and my point totally missed. As was so graphically demonstrated with the exchange between Rocks and myself.

How do I get across to people that it is not the shot placement they choose that I have a issue with. it is this attitude that shoulder shots are somehow superior. Rocks demonstrated that attitude very well, with his comment that I should try it, like I had no idea and if only I would try it I would understand how superior it is.

And Brownbear, I agree that I did take a shot at Rocks, but I don't think I took a shot at anyone else.
I was at times sarcastic, I did try exaggeration to make my point. But I don't see how anything I said was a shot at anyone, until Rocks took his shot at me. But I may be wrong, I'll go over my posts again. If you are right then I owe some folks an apology.

[KegRiver]

Well Brownbear, I have gone back over my posts. I don't see where I took any shots at anyone, other then Rocks. So did I miss it somehow?

And Rackmastr, perhaps I did as you say on some other thread. I don't see that on this thread. I was debating the topic, trying to make my point until you and sheep took exception to my comment, which by the way were not intended to be directed at either of you in any way.

Yeah I got a little emotional. What did I do to you or sheep to get you so upset with me?

I was chatting with Big River and Giterdone and sheephunter comes along and accuses me of thinking he is stupid.

when a person states their prefered shot that some others automatically assume you are too stupid to take any other shot.

Then he takes a shot at me and Big River,

I can't wait till I'm 100 years old

Yeah I know he cleverly didn't mention any names, but I don't think anyone was fooled. The targets of those comments were clearly me and Big River.

Otherwise why would you then come back and challenge me on the validity of age being a factor?

I have to admit the whole thing blindsided me. I had in no way meant to aim any comment at you or Sheep. And yes I did get a bit emotional.

Is it wrong to react poorly to being blindsided ?

Oh never mind. Lets not head off in another direction. This thread has taken enough wrong turns already.


I'm outta here. Have fun.

[The Fisherman Guy]

Big Gulps huh?



Well, see ya later!

[209x50]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Obviously you didn't. What part of the last sentence do you not understand?

The part where you say age is a factor and then say you know people half your age with more experience. You contradict your self.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Okay, you guys win. I can see that shoulder shots are the only acceptable shots on this site. I concede defeat.

Of course you are right Rocks. I must have never tried a shoulder shot or I would be a fan wouldn't I.

I'll rectify that right away. Sir.

And you wonder why there is so much fighting on this site.

More the half a dozen cheap shots directed at me in the last two pages.
What a bunch of heros.

My goodness you sound like a whiny child. Perhaps that is just the faceless posting on the internet but you sure come across that way to me.
If you weren't so busy whining you could look at my post #97 where I mention how I killed my buck this year. It wasn't with a high shoulder shot. Nobody here has claimed that is the only shot they use. But the OP asked for our preferred shot.
From the online dictionary:
pre·fer(pr-fûr)
tr.v. pre·ferred, pre·fer·ring, pre·fers 1. To choose or be in the habit of choosing as more desirable or as having more value: prefers coffee to tea.

Nowhere does it say prefer means exclusive or only choice.
Hey didn't you get your feathers in an uproar and leave once already?

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Yeah I got a little emotional. What did I do to you or sheep to get you so upset with me?

I wasnt upset and its laughable to think that at any time I was. This is the internet. I keep my emotions out of it. You should try it....it works!

[Pathfinder76]

This is directed at no one, but the high shoulder shot is an iffy shot. Several years ago a hunting partner and I came across a Mule Deer buck that had been high shoulder shot. He was barely alive, and my pard killed him by cutting his throat and then tagged him. By the snow fall timing and his tracks we figured he had been shot at least two days before, ended up getting to where he was, and was slowly bleeding to death.

I have seen it personally since, but for actual reference there is a Lancaster/Fontana film that shows a client shooting a Stone Ram high in the shoulder. All four legs go stiff and straight in the air. There is weeping and crying, congratulating and then swearing as the ram gets up and starts to run away.

Shocking the bottom of the spine produces dramatic results, but they are not always permanent. Just sayin.

[Rackmastr]

Thats interesting Chuck, and I remember the video you speak of. Pretty crazy to think that someone could shoulder shoot a deer and have it get away, but it makes a guy think for sure!

Thanks for the insight....

[elkhunter11]

Shocking the bottom of the spine produces dramatic results, but they are not always permanent. Just sayin.

The results are similar to those with less than perfect neck or head shots.The animal drops at the shot,then sometimes regains it's feet and runs off.

I think if you hunt long enough and with enough people and watch enough videos, you'll see an animal get away from every shot. The high shoulder shot when done properly is anything but iffy but like any shot, if you miss the mark, things can go wrong. One or two instances hardly makes a rule. High shoulder is a good solid anchoring shot just as heart lungs is. As this is a dangerous game thread, I just want a shot that prevents an animal from making new tracks. My experience tells me that's a shoulder shot.

[209x50]

Animals routinely get up from any poorly made shot, no matter where the shooter was aiming. I mean really you never spoke to the hunter so how do you know that the wounded mule deer wasn't the result of a poor lung shot?

Originally Posted by chuck

This is directed at no one, but the high shoulder shot is an iffy shot. Several years ago a hunting partner and I came across a Mule Deer buck that had been high shoulder shot. He was barely alive, and my pard killed him by cutting his throat and then tagged him. By the snow fall timing and his tracks we figured he had been shot at least two days before, ended up getting to where he was, and was slowly bleeding to death.

I have seen it personally since, but for actual reference there is a Lancaster/Fontana film that shows a client shooting a Stone Ram high in the shoulder. All four legs go stiff and straight in the air. There is weeping and crying, congratulating and then swearing as the ram gets up and starts to run away.

Shocking the bottom of the spine produces dramatic results, but they are not always permanent. Just sayin.

[elkhunter11]

I mean really you never spoke to the hunter so how do you know that the wounded mule deer wasn't the result of a poor lung shot?

Why would he need to speak to the hunter,they found the deer, and tagged it, so they obviously know where the bullet struck.

Several years ago a hunting partner and I came across a Mule Deer buck that had been high shoulder shot. He was barely alive, and my pard killed him by cutting his throat and then tagged him.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Well Brownbear, I have gone back over my posts. I don't see where I took any shots at anyone, other then Rocks. So did I miss it somehow?

And Rackmastr, perhaps I did as you say on some other thread. I don't see that on this thread. I was debating the topic, trying to make my point until you and sheep took exception to my comment, which by the way were not intended to be directed at either of you in any way.

Yeah I got a little emotional. What did I do to you or sheep to get you so upset with me?

I was chatting with Big River and Giterdone and sheephunter comes along and accuses me of thinking he is stupid. Then he takes a shot at me and Big River,
Yeah I know he cleverly didn't mention any names, but I don't think anyone was fooled. The targets of those comments were clearly me and Big River.

Otherwise why would you then come back and challenge me on the validity of age being a factor?

I have to admit the whole thing blindsided me. I had in no way meant to aim any comment at you or Sheep. And yes I did get a bit emotional.

Is it wrong to react poorly to being blindsided ?

Oh never mind. Lets not head off in another direction. This thread has taken enough wrong turns already.


I'm outta here. Have fun.

Hi Keg, you were chatting with me "gitrdun". Giterdone is another member who has posted in the thread. I just don't want to be confused with another poster, good or bad. Heck, I can dig my own holes very well on my own Ok, carry on....and have fun.

[Rocks]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Okay, you guys win. I can see that shoulder shots are the only acceptable shots on this site. I concede defeat.

Of course you are right Rocks. I must have never tried a shoulder shot or I would be a fan wouldn't I.

I'll rectify that right away. Sir.

And you wonder why there is so much fighting on this site.

More the half a dozen cheap shots directed at me in the last two pages.
What a bunch of heros.

Easy there Keg, just giving you my honest opinion and some friendly advice, you can take it or leave it.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I mean really you never spoke to the hunter so how do you know that the wounded mule deer wasn't the result of a poor lung shot?

You're kidding right?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

High shoulder is a good solid anchoring shot just as heart lungs is. As this is a dangerous game thread, I just want a shot that prevents an animal from making new tracks. My experience tells me that's a shoulder shot.

That's interesting. I've heard Andrew Dawson, a well respected African PH say he does not like shooting dangerous game "above the halfway line".