SRD's Feb Sheep count -general results

[thumper]

The following is from the Bow Valley Wildsmart wildlife activitey report.
I do not have any further detail:

Education Tidbit

In early February, SRD completed an aerial survey of Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep in Kananaskis Country and sheep range as far north as the Red Deer River. These surveys are conducted every 3-4 years weather and budgets permitting. Traditional sheep winter ranges are surveyed each time and sheep are counted and classified according to age groupings and sex. This winter, 1082 sheep were counted which is the highest number ever counted since these surveys were instituted in the 1970s. Sheep numbers were up on some winter ranges and down on others. Fluctuations in numbers is typical and could be due to any number of reasons but overall, bighorn numbers appear to be doing well in this part of the province. In the Bow Valley, an additional ground survey will be conducted in the spring along Highway 1A. It is much easier to see sheep on their winter ranges along the side of the highway than it is to spot them from a helicopter. This makes it much easier to count and classify animals.

Apparently every sheep zone in Alberta was surveyed this year and the Clearwater was done twice. Sounds like we'll see a bunch of information about sheep populations, hunter success and new management strategies in April.

[sheepguide]

Will be nice to see some solid numbers. Looks like they are deffinatly checking things out before changes are made.
One other thing that would be neat to see is how much higher winter populations in some areas are compared to the summer and fall.

SG

[Grizzly Adams]

OK, so numbers are doing well, but what was the age, sex breakdown?

Grizz

[ram crazy]

Sheep numbers are up and we need changes to hunting them WHY???
When they do these fly overs how can you accurately count Sheep when some may be in the trees, because there are quite a few that live in the trees.

[sheepguide]

This thread is really nothing without the numbers. A rise in population is good but doesn't mean there is a rise in hunt able ram populations. They did a countin 2009/2010 in zone 445 that also had an increase in total population but the proportion of rams in that population was lower.

I hope when the numbers are published it shows all numbers to be up but till then we dont know much more than we did before.

Are they studying the park areas and out of Alberta areas also?

And the winter is the best time to get a count as most sheep have moved onto the open slopes(not near as many in the bush) and are bunched up more than any other time of the year.
SG

[Wolf Medicine]

Lol.. Age break down? From A helicopter? Likely not. Ewe, Lamb, Ram.. Would be about as close as you would get if they bothered. Anything else would be speculation..

WM..

[ram crazy]

Good point there Sheepguide, because there lots of Sheep that go into BC and the Parks that can be in hunting territory during the hunting season. therefore these areas should be counted as well!!!

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Sheep numbers are up and we need changes to hunting them WHY???
When they do these fly overs how can you accurately count Sheep when some may be in the trees, because there are quite a few that live in the trees.

Total population in the mentioned area is up(be nice to have the numbers) but doesnt state that the huntable population is up.
SG

[ram crazy]

It depends on what they call as huntable numbers as well, because you can fudge numbers to whatever you want to get the results you want. It would be pretty tough to get an age count from the air.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Sheep numbers are up and we need changes to hunting them WHY???
When they do these fly overs how can you accurately count Sheep when some may be in the trees, because there are quite a few that live in the trees.

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Good point there Sheepguide, because there lots of Sheep that go into BC and the Parks that can be in hunting territory during the hunting season. therefore these areas should be counted as well!!!

Originally Posted by ram crazy

It depends on what they call as huntable numbers as well, because you can fudge numbers to whatever you want to get the results you want. It would be pretty tough to get an age count from the air.

Try reading the sheep survey protocol info that has been posted here a hundred times on sheep threads. These concerns are all addressed in the survey methodology.


Ignorance is not bliss for those listening to it.





Bighorns continue to show a positive population growth in general. Yet the mature ram population may be decreasing according to SRD. Licenced hunters are not reponsible for an increased harvest of these rams. So basic logic follows that mortality is coming from another source. IF the source of mortality is native hunting or poaching, then further restrictions on licenced hunters will have NO positive effect in increasing mature ram populations.

If there is a general issue with class 4 ram populations, SRD should reconsider wildlife law enforcement efforts and native subsistence harvest management.


Hopefully the details of this survey will be available to the public before sheep hunting regulation changes are made.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Wolf Medicine

Lol.. Age break down? From A helicopter? Likely not. Ewe, Lamb, Ram.. Would be about as close as you would get if they bothered. Anything else would be speculation..

WM..

That would be close enough and significant.

[sheepguide]

This explains how the WMU 445 count was done, im sure its comparison to all area counts.

5.3.2 Survey methods
All mountain complexes and known sheep habitat were flown from December 14 ‐
15, 2009 using a Bell 206B helicopter. Mountain contours were flown counterclockwise
at a height to ensure visibility of open slopes on all ridges. The crew
consisted of a pilot, a navigator/observer, an observer and a recorder/observer.
The navigator was seated in the left front seat of the helicopter and was
responsible for directing the pilot on the survey as well as assisting in obtaining a
total count and classification of the sheep. The observer seated directly behind the
navigator was responsible for obtaining a total count and classification of sheep.
If a discrepancy between the numbers counted by the navigator and observer
seated behind the navigator occurred, the herd was re‐counted and re‐classified.
The recorder (seated behind the pilot) was responsible for recording all
observations, for using a GPS unit to obtain precise locations of animals, and for
scanning to tree line below the helicopter for sheep. All sheep were classified by
sex (ewes and rams) and age (adults and lambs). Rams were further classified into
horn size categories of ¼ curl, ½ curl, ¾ curl, 4/5 curl (legal) and larger.


SG

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Wolf Medicine

Lol.. Age break down? From A helicopter? Likely not. Ewe, Lamb, Ram.. Would be about as close as you would get if they bothered. Anything else would be speculation..

WM..

Just curious if you have ever flown sheep country? Have you ever glassed sheep from a helicopter or plane with your optics? Its not really that tough to get a general age structure. Definatly able to tell a quarter curl from a half and a half curl from 4/5 or full.
Pretty easy to tell maturity levels and such.
SG

[duffy4]

Originally Posted by thumper

The following is from the Bow Valley Wildsmart wildlife activitey report.
I do not have any further detail:

Education Tidbit

In early February, SRD completed an aerial survey of Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep in Kananaskis Country and sheep range as far north as the Red Deer River. These surveys are conducted every 3-4 years weather and budgets permitting. Traditional sheep winter ranges are surveyed each time and sheep are counted and classified according to age groupings and sex. This winter, 1082 sheep were counted which is the highest number ever counted since these surveys were instituted in the 1970s. Sheep numbers were up on some winter ranges and down on others. Fluctuations in numbers is typical and could be due to any number of reasons but overall, bighorn numbers appear to be doing well in this part of the province. In the Bow Valley, an additional ground survey will be conducted in the spring along Highway 1A. It is much easier to see sheep on their winter ranges along the side of the highway than it is to spot them from a helicopter. This makes it much easier to count and classify animals.

I thought it seemed strange that you had said "SRD completed an aerial survey..." As SRD no longer does game counts. The ACA does. I had never heard of "Bow Valley WildSmart" so I googled and find they are not a government organization at all. I do not know how much "faith" I would put in information from them.


Bow Valley WildSmart
How to donate to Bow Valley WildSmart?

Bow Valley WildSmart is a program of the Biosphere Institute of the Bow Valley and relies entirely on donations and sponsors.



Donations through
Biosphere Institute
of the Bow Valley.
Our Mission

The Bow Valley WildSmart Community program is a proactive conservation strategy that encourages efforts by communities to reduce negative human-wildlife interactions.

Our goal is to develop a coordinated approach to education/outreach programs and help support direct management activities that will aid in increasing public safety and enjoyment as well as contribute towards sustainable wildlife populations.

The program was first established in 2005 by a coalition of local interest groups including businesses, environmental groups, and public, municipal and provincial government agencies. In the last year WildSmart decided it would be more effective operating as a program of the Biosphere Institute of the Bow Valley.

[nube]

Find it weird that a population has a rise in numbers yet a decrease in huntable rams. The only thing i can think of that would be a reason for a decrease in more mature animals is that the winters years ago wiped out that older generations worth of rams and since then the winters have not been bad so the population has rebounded and stayed good.

AS I stated before and got heat for saying so the sheep population is doing well. Changes are not needed in this province. There are lots of opportunity for everyone to find rams. If you are not finding them you are doing something wrong. It has nothing to do with a decrease in the number of sheep. The last thing we want is thesystem changed.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by nube

Find it weird that a population has a rise in numbers yet a decrease in huntable rams. The only thing i can think of that would be a reason for a decrease in more mature animals is that the winters years ago wiped out that older generations worth of rams and since then the winters have not been bad so the population has rebounded and stayed good.

AS I stated before and got heat for saying so the sheep population is doing well. Changes are not needed in this province. There are lots of opportunity for everyone to find rams. If you are not finding them you are doing something wrong. It has nothing to do with a decrease in the number of sheep. The last thing we want is thesystem changed.

Careful there Nube, Walking Buffalo may take offence to that because there are numbers involved and he likes numbers. I just checked the ACA site and they did aerial bighorn studies in 2009/2010. There was 3 studies done on 13 WMU's but I couldn't find any conclusions on them.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by nube

Find it weird that a population has a rise in numbers yet a decrease in huntable rams. The only thing i can think of that would be a reason for a decrease in more mature animals is that the winters years ago wiped out that older generations worth of rams and since then the winters have not been bad so the population has rebounded and stayed good.

AS I stated before and got heat for saying so the sheep population is doing well. Changes are not needed in this province. There are lots of opportunity for everyone to find rams. If you are not finding them you are doing something wrong. It has nothing to do with a decrease in the number of sheep. The last thing we want is thesystem changed.

There was a collored female cougar on the Ram river that in a two week period killed 2 or 3 legal rams a couple winters ago. How many do these animals kill after the rut? Stuff like that affects huntable populations more than anything.

Obviously there are a few groups concerned or the money wouldnt be being spent on these studies. Looks like if they did the clearwater twice then rumors are true that they are worried about how many legal rams are being taken from this area. They were saying that 80+% of the legal rams are taken out of here every year. Doesnt leave much to try and keep things going.

What do you thing is happening in the Burnt Timber and Ya Ha the Nube? Used to go there in the winter and see lots of sheep. The old look out and stuff had lots of big rams wintering there. And the hills behind the ranch buildings and going into scalp creek had large numbers of ewes and many big rams there. Now both of these places have minimal winter populations. The ranch is lucky to have a quarter to half the population in the winter compared to 15yrs ago, and the burnt is pretty desolate the last few times ive been in there in the winter.

How bout the Hummingbird, winter time you could see a hundred+ ewes and lambs and a good bunch of rams wintering there. Now the ram numbers are way lower and ewe numbers are a quarter of what they used to be. This summer the ram population in the onion lake area was low but probably higher than the ewes.

Hope that the sheep have just moved and are living else where but seems that these prime wintering areas have decreased significantly. And that concerns me. If populations are still up then where are these animals wintering? Are the now putting added pressure else where do to being pushed off native lands? How long can that last before those lands can not sustain the sheep?

Still no number that state what populations are actually at so no sense getting to excited.

And your right the last thing that we want is change but we also want whats best for the sheep and with out solid numbers we are just forcing opinions towards being facts.

Its about the sheep not about hunting.
SG

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Hopefully the details of this survey will be available to the public before sheep hunting regulation changes are made.

They said they will. It is cool that they are doing the parks too and that they are getting some baselines on counts at different times of the year. It sounds primising that we'll at least have some data before any regulation changes are considered.

[Wolf Medicine]

Sheepguide. As A matter of fact I have. Not for bighorns. But in the NWT over Dalls. And yes I know that if you take the time you can get all of that info. My problem with the apparent scope of this survey and SRD's limited funds. How thorough they were in regards to aging and sexing the sheep observed. And as always with any documents how forthcoming they will be to those requesting the information. Have sat in meetings with them A few times in regards to Cougar management, And often it is unfortunately A waste of breath. So having spent the last 14 years guiding for Deer, Moose, Bighorns, Dalls, Caribou, And mountain lion. etc. I have flown some country. And looked over some sheep. So know the time it does take. So was for the most part suggesting that their accuracy may be somewhat general given the area they have apparently covered. And their sheep population concerns are slightly different then the average hunters. Depends on who they had up there. And the worst thing they do for management is piggy back University, Or private studies. And use that information for game management. See the Grizzly situation... Just A observation and opinion. Not saying in any way that I know more then the next guy. Just drawing from my experiences. And observations. Doesn't make me right or wrong. But in all things internet. Opinions generally run away with A topic before any facts are presented.

WM.

[mad mountain mike]

This debate is starting to drive me nuts! The sheep are up there, all you have to do is go up there and look. I am by no means an expert, I don,t read everything there is to read about sheep populations but I do know what I see, and what i see is alot of sheep. I saw three legal rams this season and five last year, they were sqeakers at best, but none the less legal. I did,nt attempt to take one because I realize that at my age my first ram will most likely be my last and I am waiting for the one that fits that title. The bottom line is that sheep populations are good, and that huntable rams are up there, you just have to work a little harder for them. I cant help but to feel that APOS is behind the push for change, they are having a hard time selling exclusive, high priced sheep hunts to wealthy foreigners when they run into ambitious local hunters in the middle of no where.

[Wolf Medicine]

On A side note. The Cougar study that collared that female. I have worked for and with the outfitter that is doing the hound work for that study and the Cypress Hills study. The killing of mature rams by lions in the hills is no different then the killing of Mature Mule deer, Elk, Whitetail, Moose, Caribou. Or any thing I have missed. Have many whitetail buck pick ups from cougar kills in December. Simple predator philosophy. Kill the ones that are sleepy or weak. Hence any mature male shortly after breeding season...

WM...