Bullet separation

[coyoteman]

I mortally wounded a doe, that bolted,there was time for a second shot.I rushed it maybe did not take the bolt all the way back.I soon discovered a bullet was jammed in the chamber,separated from the case.Not sure what happened,seems like i might have missed resizeing.I knocked the bullet out with a cleaning rod.That was not a pleasant experience.I have had miss fires,with the bullet lodged in the barrel,one time only.The doe was found,dead.A wake up call for sure,extreme care and caution in the reloading room,always required.

[Nyksta]

reloading is definitely "read the instructions first" type of activity... how far off the lands are you?

[Dick284]

Bullet separation the term reserved for a jacket separating from a bullet core during terminal performance.
What you had happen is a jammed in the throat, and pulled bullet.

Jamming a bullet into the lands of a rifle is a result of improper seating length, and a failure to function test your ammunition prior to taking it into the field.

We all must learn from our mistakes, but one must wonder some days.

[jef612]

Agreed - the bullet was seated too long and was pinched into the lands when you chambered the round, and then the bullet pulled out of the brass case when you tried to eject the round.

Double check your loaded round overall length (bullet seating depth) and compare against the actual dimensions of your gun. Many reloaders attempt to come very close to the rifling for accuracy purposes, but a few thousands of an inch of error at that point can cause the situation you have described.

Learn from it and move on. That's all a guy can do.

If you want to consider the "what if scenarios" - the ejection of that round should send powder flying everywhere and alert you that something is wrong. But in case you didn't notice that (possible in the heat of the moment) - the next round wouldn't chamber without a significant of force. I don't think it would chamber at all, but if it did chamber it surely would not go unnoticed.

Just my opinion of course

[GrandSlam]

I don't do "chase the lands" on hunting rifles for just that reason.

Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

[mindoutside]

Happened to me once, I think frost was a factor because I have had lots of rounds of the same O.A.L and never had that problem in the same rifle. Could he a human error not pulling the lever all the way too.

[Pioneer2]

The first Win 70 FWT's came out the .270's were short throated so bad Hornady changed the cannelure location on their 130gr bullets.I talked to Hornady directly....................... before someone doubts it. Stupider yet is neck sizing hunting ammo so when the wounded animal needs another the fired brass won't eject.Had it happen on elk with a .custom .300 RUM built by Corlanes.The owner had the 168gr "Burgers" seated out for the long throat the gun couldn't use it's magazine and he neck sized as he shot from his back porch bench at gongs all summer.Three attempts later cleared it and the elk and another were tucked in.Borden action.FL size to hunt.JMO

[coyoteman]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Bullet separation the term reserved for a jacket separating from a bullet core during terminal performance.
What you had happen is a jammed in the throat, and pulled bullet.

Jamming a bullet into the lands of a rifle is a result of improper seating length, and a failure to function test your ammunition prior to taking it into the field.

We all must learn from our mistakes, but one must wonder some days.

I have a tikka and savage in 6.5CM.The bullet used 143eld-x.All were loaded less than 2.825.and individually measured.I fired a couple of hundred rds practice,from bench rest,to various position,before the season.Two bucks and a doe were taken--This the 1st problem.I load four different calibers.Still a mystery.

[coyoteman]

Originally Posted by GrandSlam

I don't do "chase the lands" on hunting rifles for just that reason.

Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

I have two 6.5 CM,over 200 rds fired at gongs and targets.All were loaded and mesasured individually.the 143 gr ELD-X were used.All measured less than 2.825.I have no idea.

[coyoteman]

Originally Posted by Pioneer2

The first Win 70 FWT's came out the .270's were short throated so bad Hornady changed the cannelure location on their 130gr bullets.I talked to Hornady directly....................... before someone doubts it. Stupider yet is neck sizing hunting ammo so when the wounded animal needs another the fired brass won't eject.Had it happen on elk with a .custom .300 RUM built by Corlanes.The owner had the 168gr "Burgers" seated out for the long throat the gun couldn't use it's magazine and he neck sized as he shot from his back porch bench at gongs all summer.Three attempts later cleared it and the elk and another were tucked in.Borden action.FL size to hunt.JMO

Murphys law-----

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by coyoteman

I have two 6.5 CM,over 200 rds fired at gongs and targets.All were loaded and mesasured individually.the 143 gr ELD-X were used.All measured less than 2.825.I have no idea.

Are you using a comperator from the ogive or measuring OAL from the tip of the bullet?

[coyoteman]

Originally Posted by jef612

Agreed - the bullet was seated too long and was pinched into the lands when you chambered the round, and then the bullet pulled out of the brass case when you tried to eject the round.

Double check your loaded round overall length (bullet seating depth) and compare against the actual dimensions of your gun. Many reloaders attempt to come very close to the rifling for accuracy purposes, but a few thousands of an inch of error at that point can cause the situation you have described.

Learn from it and move on. That's all a guy can do.

If you want to consider the "what if scenarios" - the ejection of that round should send powder flying everywhere and alert you that something is wrong. But in case you didn't notice that (possible in the heat of the moment) - the next round wouldn't chamber without a significant of force. I don't think it would chamber at all, but if it did chamber it surely would not go unnoticed.

Just my opinion of course

I fired ejected,the second bullet,didnt seem to want to go in.So I ejected it but left the bullet seated.Of course the next bullet wouldnt seat.When home I knocked the jammed bullet out with a cleaning rod--The crazy thing is I could see it had seated correctly--- but move on I will,for sure super alert now.

[coyoteman]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Are you using a comperator from the ogive or measuring OAL from the tip of the bullet?

Yes,the 6.5 cm 143gr eld-x.Call for a max col of2.825.all were loaded,and measured less than that.I have dummies made for easy of set up.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by coyoteman

Yes,the 6.5 cm 143gr eld-x.Call for a max col of2.825.all were loaded,and measured less than that.I have dummies made for easy of set up.

Just wondering if you measured your throat and are measuring from the ogive / tangent intersection to base? The reason I ask, is I have a short throated aftermarket barrel that you cannot load to sammi spec.....or the bullets pull out.

[Subaru297]

Maybe loose neck tension and the bullet slid forward a bit during recoil......?

[DLab]

Originally Posted by coyoteman

I fired ejected,the second bullet,didnt seem to want to go in.So I ejected it but left the bullet seated.Of course the next bullet wouldnt seat.When home I knocked the jammed bullet out with a cleaning rod--The crazy thing is I could see it had seated correctly--- but move on I will,for sure super alert now.

Make sure I got this.The second round wouldn't chamber,on extraction, the bullet pulled from the case due to it being jammed into the barrel lands.A cleaning rod to tap the stuck bullet was required for removal.Did you notice a visible ring or marks on the bullet ogive from jamming?
If it was due to light neck tension you would think the round would have chambered by seating the bullet further in the neck on bolt closing if it moved forward from original seating depth from recoil,perhaps the bullet wasn't seated to correct depth on loading.
Are your loads compressed?Too much bullet in the case,the compressed powder pushed it out due to light neck tension/recoil combination?
My factory CM chamber measures 2.906 col.,2.266 Ogive,even seated at 2.82 leaves plenty room for 143's.
or Murphy....

[coyoteman]

Originally Posted by DLab

Make sure I got this.The second round wouldn't chamber,on extraction, the bullet pulled from the case due to it being jammed into the barrel lands.A cleaning rod to tap the stuck bullet was required for removal.Did you notice a visible ring or marks on the bullet ogive from jamming?
If it was due to light neck tension you would think the round would have chambered by seating the bullet further in the neck on bolt closing if it moved forward from original seating depth from recoil,perhaps the bullet wasn't seated to correct depth on loading.
Are your loads compressed?Too much bullet in the case,the compressed powder pushed it out due to light neck tension/recoil combination?
My factory CM chamber measures 2.906 col.,2.266 Ogive,even seated at 2.82 leaves plenty room for 143's.
or Murphy....

I loaded 39.6 grs of h4350. No compression.May have picked up on something--Hornadys 10th edition.6.5 creedmoor max col 2.825.But--the individual col for the 143 gr eld-x 2.800.--I have two 6.5 cm--savage and tikka. You guessed it I was useing the savage, which has a slightly shorted chamber than the tikka.I loaded to 2.285----The mis feed in the heat of the moment,left the bullet in the chamber, and bullet caseing and powder on the ground.Of course the new round,jammed the bullet,but lucky for me wouldnt chamber.

[coyoteman]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Just wondering if you measured your throat and are measuring from the ogive / tangent intersection to base? The reason I ask, is I have a short throated aftermarket barrel that you cannot load to sammi spec.....or the bullets pull out.

The dummy may have been me---I have two 6.5 creedmoors--the chamber on the tikka is longer than the savage---You guessed it i was useing the savage----

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by coyoteman

I mortally wounded a doe, that bolted,there was time for a second shot.I rushed it maybe did not take the bolt all the way back.I soon discovered a bullet was jammed in the chamber,separated from the case.Not sure what happened,seems like i might have missed resizeing.I knocked the bullet out with a cleaning rod.That was not a pleasant experience.I have had miss fires,with the bullet lodged in the barrel,one time only.The doe was found,dead.A wake up call for sure,extreme care and caution in the reloading room,always required.

Reloading is something that needs to be done in steps and only a break from the table at certain times to ensure no double powder loading etc but that being said once all bullets are seated and your starring at your little precious babies final steps it to verify that all are run through the rifles action....safely...just a last precaution that there is no issues also last look at the cartridge.....

Or you may be in the field with a bullet in the barrel and a magazine full of powder...if your lucky you catch it, if not

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by coyoteman

The dummy may have been me---I have two 6.5 creedmoors--the chamber on the tikka is longer than the savage---You guessed it i was useing the savage----

Lessens learned....thanks for sharing as a wake up for all because many have issues but never share thier screw ups and we are all guilty of it.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by coyoteman

I have a tikka and savage in 6.5CM.The bullet used 143eld-x.All were loaded less than 2.825.and individually measured.I fired a couple of hundred rds practice,from bench rest,to various position,before the season.Two bucks and a doe were taken--This the 1st problem.I load four different calibers.Still a mystery.

A mystery? No, it’s not a mystery. You could safely put a lot of money on this one.

[coyoteman]

Originally Posted by chuck

A mystery? No, it’s not a mystery. You could safely put a lot of money on this one.

Dog gone--That savage got a short chamber-----

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by coyoteman

Dog gone--That savage got a short chamber-----

Not a short chamber, just shorter than the Tikka!
Cat

[Dick284]

This goes to show you screwed up, and you don’t quite know as much as you think you do.(this is the lesson to be learnt here)

And were equally un informed as to totally remove every bit of doubt, anyone could have ever had.(quit blaming the rifle, it’s your screw up)

This is the one of the most dangerous situation a person can be in.(oblivious to realities of the event)
I’m pretty sure every reloading manual warns against this in the front chapters, but who reads the operating instructions anyways.

Luke 23:34 comes to mind.

Put that one in your blog!

[coyoteman]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Lessens learned....thanks for sharing as a wake up for all because many have issues but never share thier screw ups and we are all guilty of it.

Alls well that ends well---Lucky the deer was dead and not struggling.Lesson learned,and move on.------Darn that new savage got a short chamber---The rule of thumb--never assume anything----

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Dick284

This goes to show you screwed up, and you don’t quite know as much as you think you do.

And were equally un informed as to totally remove every bit of doubt, anyone could have ever had.

This is the one of the most dangerous situation a person can be in.
I’m pretty sure every reloading manual warns against this in the front chapters, but who reads the operating instructions anyways.

Luke 23:34 comes to mind.

Put that one in your blog!

How is it one of the most dangerous situations a person can be in?

[coyoteman]

Originally Posted by Dick284

This goes to show you screwed up, and you don’t quite know as much as you think you do.

And were equally un informed to remove every bit of doubt, anyone could have ever had.

This is the one of the most dangerous situation a person can be in.
I’m pretty sure every reloading manual warns against this in the front chapters, but who reads the operating instructions anyways.

Luke 23:34 comes to mind.

Put that one in your blog!

Aint that the truth--Familiary breeds comtempt.and walking down a road of assumptions,A recipe for disaster.Darn that savage got a short chamber--wait a minute, maybe the tikka got a long chamber--Here we go again--Makes you wonder--How did I live to be old??????---

[elkhunter11]

The fact is that despite what some people think, throats can vary greatly from rifle to rifle , and if you don't measure the distance to the lands in your rifle, with every bullet you intend to use, you can run into problems. As well, inadequate neck tension also makes this more likely, but many people never check that either.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by coyoteman

Aint that the truth--Familiary breeds comtempt.and walking down a road of assumptions,A recipe for disaster.Darn that savage got a short chamber--wait a minute, maybe the tikka got a long chamber--Here we go again--Makes you wonder--How did I live to be old??????---

Short or long is not relevant, it’s incumbent upon the all so mighty outdoors blogger to assess each firearm as an individual entity, and work up loads separately, and determine the amount of leade each rifle has, and therefore reload and segregate the ammunition separately.

Quit blaming the rifle!

[DLab]

To help insure the same situation doesn't happen again you could load for each rifle with different brass brands ,Hornady, Lapua,Alpha,etc. or buy a second set of dies and clearly label each, along with ammo boxes identified for Tikka and Savage.
If your going to load the same bullet for both,also helps keep the same brass with the same chamber,which might not be a bad idea either.
I'm also loading for 2 CM's,different makes.