Why Gerrrman Cars Are a Bad Idea

[Dean2]

We have had a number of discussions on AO about what is the best car, SUV etc. to buy. Perennially the Japanese made ones, especially Toyota, Lexus and Honda come out on the top of the pile. I have often complained about the excessively high cost of parts, repairs and even regular maintenance on German made vehicle; VW, Mercedes, Porsche, BMW and Audi, they are all ridiculously expensive to run. I have said previously I don't run German vehicles any more, even though I do most of my own work, because they are just stupid expensive to operate.

I thought for any of you tempted to go the German route this latest example might be of interest. What do you think the repair estimate is for repairing this minor bump on the front bumper of a 2009 BMW, 328i 4 door sedan. Estimate was provided by the BMW certified Autobody repair shop in Edmonton.

Anyone care to take a shot at what the repair estimates was?

[hogie]

I'll try , about $4500. Maybe more depending on damage behind. Parts will be more than the labour.

Replace the bumper skin, manufacturer jumps the prices on body parts because they only get replaced at a retail level, rarely a warranty issue.

[teledogs]

I'd say it's a write off...

[Austin]

$2395.00

[elkhunter11]

Repairs aren't so cheap on non German vehicles either. I hit an owl last month with my 2019 Tacoma, and all that was visible after a quick look, was a crack in the bumper cover, about 1" long. In the end, the repair bill was over $2500, a major part of that being a $960 headlight, that needed replacement, because two plastic mounting tabs were broken.

[3blade]

$3500

Had to do the same on a Ford, was about 1200...triple sounds about righ for German stuff

And 100% agree with you.

[Glion]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Repairs aren't so cheap on non German vehicles either. I hit an owl last month with my 2019 Tacoma, and all that was visible after a quick look, was a crack in the bumper cover, about 1" long. In the end, the repair bill was over $2500, a major part of that being a $960 headlight, that needed replacement, because two plastic mounting tabs were broken.

Hit a fox with a Corolla years ago was over 4k in dmg, that was like 14 years ago.

[reddeerguy2015]

Don't leave us hanging!!!

[jstubbs]

Not sure I want to know... I put an almost identical ding in my neighbour's nearly new Dodge 1500 Limited one time after backing my flat deck trailer into it. Only cost me $700 out of pocket thankfully to put on a new bumper cover.

[amosfella]

$2200. But bodywork on a honda is just as expensive. If you're near Calgary, go talk to Earnest at Exotic Cars International. He can fix a lot of that stuff with plastic welding rather than getting a whole new bumper in and painting it. His work is excellent.

[Trochu]

Well, seeing as repairing a tailgate on an F250 can run around $9k, I'm going to go with $5,200.00. Looks like a scuff in plastic, so they'll likely want to replace, paint, takes time to replace grille, lights, etc.

[silver lab]

Take it to a regular body shop.... $300.00.

[204ruger]

Any repair is going to be expensive when taken to the German manufacturer dealership. Take it to a private body shop and it’ll be a fraction of the cost.

[Dean2]

So, not to leave you hanging, quote was $6,500 of which parts was $1,600. Effectively makes this vehicle a write-off from a minor cosmetic bump in the front bumper. Black book is $4,000 and Retail it is worth about $6,000 max. Teledogs was right when he said write-off.

Those that said take it to a different place were spot on. Same repair work at another body shop, not BMW certified but still replacing the parts, repaint etc, $2,700. Plastic weld and blend the paint $800.

Long and short of it, German Dealerships and any Certified repair shops are just stupid expensive and WAY over priced. When you can have exactly the same repair done for roughly one third the price you know they are trying to shaft you. Just out of curiosity I checked for a replacement front facia for a Lexus of the same vintage, it was half the price of the BMW.

Like I said, will never own another German car because of their poor reliability and ridiculous parts costs.

[mooseknuckle]

$6,800 easy. How much to install signal lights on a beemer?

[urban rednek]

Maintain a safe distance and wear protective goggles.

[KGB]

You are in Edmonton, go to the George’s Autobody on 99 street. Family run shop, very reasonable prices and great quality. Doesn’t look like much from the outside but the owner is a German guy, second generation body repaires and paint. Very honest work.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Dean2

So, not to leave you hanging, quote was $6,500 of which parts was $1,600. Effectively makes this vehicle a write-off from a minor cosmetic bump in the front bumper. Black book is $4,000 and Retail it is worth about $6,000 max. Teledogs was right when he said write-off.

Those that said take it to a different place were spot on. Same repair work at another body shop, not BMW certified but still replacing the parts, repaint etc, $2,700. Plastic weld and blend the paint $800.

Long and short of it, German Dealerships and any Certified repair shops are just stupid expensive and WAY over priced. When you can have exactly the same repair done for roughly one third the price you know they are trying to shaft you. Just out of curiosity I checked for a replacement front facia for a Lexus of the same vintage, it was half the price of the BMW.

Like I said, will never own another German car because of their poor reliability and ridiculous parts costs.

Want to sell it?

Any angst caused by high service costs vanish when you put the throttle down through corners. There's nothing like Euro suspensions.

[HVA7mm]

$5.99 to $15.99

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by 270person

Want to sell it?

Any angst caused by high service costs vanish when you put the throttle down through corners. There's nothing like Euro suspensions.

Not mine, belongs to a guy that wouldn't take my advice and just had to buy a used BMW because all the car rags say they are such great performance vehicles.

As far as putting the throttle down, I have owned enough German cars and other high end cars to know for sure that there are lots of other choices that perform as well or better and are FAR cheaper to own.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by mooseknuckle

$6,800 easy. How much to install signal lights on a beemer?

That’s absurd, nobody has ever found out if a signal bulb was out on a BMW, they’d have to initiate the turn-stalk for that discovery to happen!

[270person]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Not mine, belongs to a guy that wouldn't take my advice and just had to buy a used BMW because all the car rags say they are such great performance vehicles.

As far as putting the throttle down, I have owned enough German cars and other high end cars to know for sure that there are lots of other choices that perform as well or better and are FAR cheaper to own.

Not domestics bud. Hasn't been a decent domestic built since the early 70's and even then it was all about motors and little else.

If I could own one my personal choice would be a Ferrari but that ain't happening.

I used to wonder why the Beemer oil change was $190.00? Now I wonder why a Dodge hemi synthetic change is $160. Thennnn we better change that cabin filter...$80.

Plus, buy a typical domestic and you're back to the dealership an average of 6 times for all the things they did wrong during assembly. Zero fit and finish.

With you on the Japanese though. Toyota and its Luxury end Lexus, Honda and their step up Acura are the best vehicles on the road. Bar none.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Dean2

So, not to leave you hanging, quote was $6,500 of which parts was $1,600. Effectively makes this vehicle a write-off from a minor cosmetic bump in the front bumper. Black book is $4,000 and Retail it is worth about $6,000 max. Teledogs was right when he said write-off.

Those that said take it to a different place were spot on. Same repair work at another body shop, not BMW certified but still replacing the parts, repaint etc, $2,700. Plastic weld and blend the paint $800.

Long and short of it, German Dealerships and any Certified repair shops are just stupid expensive and WAY over priced. When you can have exactly the same repair done for roughly one third the price you know they are trying to shaft you. Just out of curiosity I checked for a replacement front facia for a Lexus of the same vintage, it was half the price of the BMW.

Like I said, will never own another German car because of their poor reliability and ridiculous parts costs.

I thought beamer drivetrains were highly reliable, and the biggest advantage to them is how easy they are to work on if you do your own maintenance. I haven’t heard much good about their electronics, but if the car will give you 500000 Kim’s on the drivetrain that’s pretty good.

[keeks]

Looks like a good spot to add an air hole.

[Grizzly Adams]

Lose the key fob for your VW and see what that sets you back.

Grizz

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by 270person

Not domestics bud. Hasn't been a decent domestic built since the early 70's and even then it was all about motors and little else

The Mustang Bullitt, Camaro ZL1, Aviator, Fiesta ST, by all accounts the C8, etc. are great vehicles. The vast majority of Japanese vehicles are great, if you're simply looking for a vehicular appliance to get you from Point A to B. Some of us want more than that.

[bobtodrick]

A year ago my ex's front fender on her 2007 Golf was rusting out due to an improperly repaired auto accident (they bondo'd but did no prep of the metal that was repainted).
Estimate from a VW dealership....$4500
Estimate from MAACO...............,$1300
Did some research. The fender is attached with four bolts.
Purchased (from Amazon of all places) an OEM fender for just under $100.00
Spent about $200 on VW prep materials, undercoat and paint and spent about a total of three hours over a weekend putting on five coats of paint followed by clearcoat. Then a couple hours taking off the rusted fender, putting on the new and installing the side marker lights.
Total $300 in materials, and 6 hour labor. At going labor rates the MAACO estimate was probably fair...but other than a capuccino (they offer capuccino at the VW dealership) the $4500 estimate at the VW dealership was ridiculous.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Just because you haven't driven one doesn't make it true. The Mustang Bullitt, Camaro ZL1, Aviator, Fiesta ST, by all accounts the C8, etc. are great vehicles. The vast majority of Japanese vehicles are great, if you're simply looking for a vehicular appliance to get you from Point A to B. Some of us want more than that.

Absolutely agree. Even a modern domestic sedan or entry level pony car does everything better than anything domestic made through the early 70's. That being said, 50 years of technological advancement should make them better.

New cars are not very serviceable by the average person, but do drive nicer, faster, way more efficient and comfortable than the classics. This coming from a guy that would own acres of classic cars if I ever won the lottery.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Trochu

The Mustang Bullitt, Camaro ZL1, Aviator, Fiesta ST, by all accounts the C8, etc. are great vehicles. The vast majority of Japanese vehicles are great, if you're simply looking for a vehicular appliance to get you from Point A to B. Some of us want more than that.

Wow. 4 models that aren't crap? 4 more than I would have guessed.

I'll hold to my fit and finish opinion tks. 95% of domestics make multiple visits back to the dealership they came from. Squeaks, windnoise, one wiper that works, etc.

And yes...those Lexus, Acura, are sure boxy, no style appliances huh? Nissan and Infinity, even though I wouldn't own one, have likely led all automakers in styling for many years.

When a domestic gets rated #1 multiple years in a row we'll talk, AND let us know when you purchase one of the vehicles you mentioned. Lincoln...lol.

[traderal]

I drank the koolaid one time and bought a mid 80's BMW 735i. To this day I still shake my head that people would pay so much for that car and think it was something special. Driving it was just plain wierd. Fixing the electronics was just plain stupid. Parts prices were crazy. Reminds me of that sitcom, Dr. Fraisier Crane and his brother Niles.