The Kenney Government

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Jigger

You just generalized an entire industry by calling us all plugs and claiming no one works hard in the patch, then have the audacity to accuse others of trolling lol nice work.

I was self deprecating but I guess without knowing me and not reading the entire post you could surmise that opinion.

The night I graduated high school I went to bed in a rig camp, 20 years working in the patch, 4th gen oilfield, hell my father was killed operating even. So oil is really all I know. But we ain't special and weve got to eventually realize that. It's not that hard of a job vs other gigs around the world.

And when the politicians and the rich start playing us against each other we are the only fools. Everyone says they're worried about the future of our children and the effects of debt. Just wait and see a future with less nurses and over worked teachers. Those 2 jobs feed the future. We support it.

Bottom line is you're not special, never going to be. But you can still be a grown up and not slander your neighbour. Save your anger for the scoundrels at the top!

[blacknorthernjk]

ESOXangler, wise words. I feel a lot of pitting people against each other keeping the fight amongst us is often their tactic.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

I was self deprecating but I guess without knowing me and not reading the entire post you could surmise that opinion.

The night I graduated high school I went to bed in a rig camp, 20 years working in the patch, 4th gen oilfield, hell my father was killed operating even. So oil is really all I know. But we ain't special and weve got to eventually realize that. It's not that hard of a job vs other gigs around the world.

And when the politicians and the rich start playing us against each other we are the only fools. Everyone says they're worried about the future of our children and the effects of debt. Just wait and see a future with less nurses and over worked teachers. Those 2 jobs feed the future. We support it.

Bottom line is you're not special, never going to be. But you can still be a grown up and not slander your neighbour. Save your anger for the scoundrels at the top!

If you haven’t worked other jobs how can you conclude that it’s not that hard of a job? From operations to services to the top brass every job is hard if you take pride in your work, respect your position and do it to the best if your abilities.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Has anyone ever worked as a nurse here? I havent but I've spent a considerable amount of time in the hospital and watched what they do and go thru. And let me tell you they deserve it! Alot more than any jogging pant wearing side boom operator. Or any hand on a drilling rig. Let's face boys we dont actually work that hard in the patch. I've been away for more then 2 months at a time, outside -40 and working 12-14hr days and it still beats wiping someone's ass or dealing with a parent that's terrified about their child.

These people are the ones that are there when we need them to the most. They should be cherished! Trying to relate a nurse to any of us plugs in the patch is ignorant as all hell.

And Kenney is a grease bag who stole his job from an actual albertan that cared about alberta.

Are you suggesting changing a diaper is hard? And I've been doing it for others for free for the last 5 years!?! Very few jobs are "hard" the majority of the time. Some have downsides, being away from home for weeks at a time, working outside in the winter, changing diapers, etc. is unpleasant.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

If you haven’t worked other jobs how can you conclude that it’s not that hard of a job? From operations to services to the top brass every job is hard if you take pride in your work, respect your position and do it to the best if your abilities.

Without realizing it you are making my exact point. All jobs are hard if that's your perspective. I find working outside -30 and running crews alot easier than providing end of life care to someone's child or grandfather. But be a realist we do get compensated for what we do. Not everyone can do it that's a fact but that doesnt mean we get to be ****ty to other people.

One day regardless of who you are you're going to be stuck in a bed somewhere and have someone helping you through your worst moments. I'd want that person to know society appreciates them for their work.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Are you suggesting changing a diaper is hard? And I've been doing it for others for free for the last 5 years!?! Very few jobs are "hard" the majority of the time. Some have downsides, being away from home for weeks at a time, working outside in the winter, changing diapers, etc. is unpleasant.

Hahaha beauty of an strawman. I'll take the bait. Whose ass you wiping? Kids I would assume. That's awhole lot better then a 55 year old man's. And honestly if that's what you equate to nursing than you're luckier than most. Lacking experience in our healthcare system is a ignorance lots dont get to have.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Without realizing it you are making my exact point. All jobs are hard if that's your perspective. I find working outside -30 and running crews alot easier than providing end of life care to someone's child or grandfather. But be a realist we do get compensated for what we do. Not everyone can do it that's a fact but that doesnt mean we get to be ****ty to other people.

One day regardless of who you are you're going to be stuck in a bed somewhere and have someone helping you through your worst moments. I'd want that person to know society appreciates them for their work.

Exactly we all have hard jobs. Referring to all oil field workers as plugs is a disgrace. Your lucky I’m not your boss as you need to learn the meaning of respect.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Exactly we all have hard jobs. Referring to all oil field workers as plugs is a disgrace. Your lucky I’m not your boss as you need to learn the meaning of respect.

Hahaha!!!

I edited this post 3x before I realized this is the internet and theres jokes all over it. Including yourself and your "respect". Obviously you're too sensitive...

I'm out, and I hope you never need a nurse.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Hahaha!!!

I edited this post 3x before I realized this is the internet and theres jokes all over it. Including yourself and your "respect". Obviously you're too sensitive...

I'm out, and I hope you never need a nurse.

Not sensitive at all. I just respect everyone that works for me and with me. From the cleaning staff to the president.
And I didn’t say nurses don’t work hard. Just told you to have some respect for oilfield workers. Stop being so sensitive and start putting in a little more effort to your job!

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Hahaha beauty of an strawman. I'll take the bait. Whose ass you wiping? Kids I would assume. That's awhole lot better then a 55 year old man's. And honestly if that's what you equate to nursing than you're luckier than most. Lacking experience in our healthcare system is a ignorance lots dont get to have.

Took the "strawman" but left the actual argument? Regardless, is it unpleasant, yes, could most 10 year olds change a diaper (assuming the patient could physically assist), yes, it's not hard, difficult, physically exhausting, high degree of knowledge and expertise required task.

[fishnguy]

^ Common, man, you are better than that. You know that changing diapers is the smallest part of their job. My sister only changed diapers when she worked at an old folks home while in school. That’s when she “broke” her back the first time moving old folks who can assist, as you say. She worked in ICU after graduating for a few years and hasn’t changed a diaper once in those years. But she did “break” her back a few more times in those years. She then got her masters in nursing and also became a nurse practitioner. Works in some blood something department on salary and works daily overtime she doesn’t get paid for (neither does she bank the hours). The good news is her back is much better since moving out of ICU.

Edit: I should add, she did consider moving to the States, where she would easily make at least 1.5 times in their private sector with her credentials than what she makes here in the public sector.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

^ Common, man, you are better than that. You know that changing diapers is the smallest part of their job.

I was only using that example as another member, of whom I was responding, used it as an example to show how hard the job was, nothing more.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I was only using that example as another member, of whom I was responding, used it as an example to show how hard the job was, nothing more.

You picked one small part of it and continuously used it. Your whole point was to devalue, even to the point of equating changing your kids diapers to an adults.

Theres no way I'll ever be able to teach you appreciation but life will eventually. I truly hope it doesnt take anything serious.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

You picked one small part of it and continuously used it. Your whole point was to devalue, even to the point of equating changing your kids diapers to an adults.



Theres no way I'll ever be able to teach you appreciation but life will eventually. I truly hope it doesnt take anything serious.

Pot calling kettle black? Lol
I thought you were done in the thread?


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[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Pot calling kettle black? Lol
I thought you were done in the thread?


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Done with you Vern.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

Done with you Vern.

Lol who’s Vern? That some type of insult? Name calling? Lol


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[RO CC]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Lol who’s Vern? That some type of insult? Name calling? Lol


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I admire your patience Andrew. 😂

Funny how always, in any kind of debate, the right comes to the table with the best arguments they have, whereas the left always uses innuendo, assumptions, name calling and insults.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

You picked one small part of it and continuously used it. Your whole point was to devalue, even to the point of equating changing your kids diapers to an adults.

Theres no way I'll ever be able to teach you appreciation but life will eventually. I truly hope it doesnt take anything serious.

I used one of the two examples you provided, which was "..beats wiping someone's ass or dealing with a parent that's terrified about their child." If half your argument is "one small part" the entirety of your argument isn't that good. Let me deal with the other half. Whenever I've been in the hospital, weather it be for a child, family member, friend, it's not the nurses dealing with a terrified parent, it's a lot of, "Sorry sir, I'm just the nurse here to XXXX, you'll have to talk to the doctor". So, both the examples in your argument to reinforce your point don't really strength it. I don't disagree that some nurses work really hard and at times it's not a pleasant job, just like most people's jobs. Kinda like just because a boom operator wears sweatpants don't mean his job is easy. Maybe pick better examples next time....

Also, me appreciating life and pointing out a nurses job isn't hard because she has to change a diaper, in fact it's a job most 10 year olds could perform with just a few minutes training if required, aren't really connected.

[huntsolo1]

For the folks saying its a "scare tactic" from the union...maybe you're unsure of how unions work. It's not the union laying people off...that is the exact opposite of what unions fight for. It is the executives laying people off, and they are mostly all "union exempt", which means they work for the province (in AHS's case) directly. The union wants to keep positions, not lay them off!

And yes, after Kenny announces his "amazing" budget, then public sector organizations/departments figure out what they need to cut to stay in operation. In this case, they need to get rid of 100's of nurses. I know a lot of nurses, and they are all, every one of them, over worked. Ratios of 12 or more patients to 1 nurse...so take away a few hundred more of them and the ratios grow. Just a matter of time until people start receiving a lesser standard of care due to this. And you watch, it will be the same guys saying how "nursing is easy" and "it's not the nurses, it's the doctors doing the real work" that will be complaining how some loved one died or they didn't get proper care that will be back complaining here again. Best part is, they most likely won't make the connection that without those hundreds of nurses the standard of care suffered.

Health care is important, education is important, emergency services are important...right now they are all running as lean as possible, cut them more and we will suffer...wait and see.

The complaints will roll in..."it took 25 minutes for the cops to arrive", "the fire department only showed up with one truck and I lost my house", "my loved ones I.V hasn't been changed"...And people will blame the cops, the fire fighters, and the nurses, instead of the laying the blame on the ones who made the cuts. Typical...

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by huntsolo1

For the folks saying its a "scare tactic" from the union...maybe you're unsure of how unions work. It's not the union laying people off...that is the exact opposite of what unions fight for. It is the executives laying people off, and they are mostly all "union exempt", which means they work for the province (in AHS's case) directly. The union wants to keep positions, not lay them off!

And yes, after Kenny announces his "amazing" budget, then public sector organizations/departments figure out what they need to cut to stay in operation. In this case, they need to get rid of 100's of nurses. I know a lot of nurses, and they are all, every one of them, over worked. Ratios of 12 or more patients to 1 nurse...so take away a few hundred more of them and the ratios grow. Just a matter of time until people start receiving a lesser standard of care due to this. And you watch, it will be the same guys saying how "nursing is easy" and "it's not the nurses, it's the doctors doing the real work" that will be complaining how some loved one died or they didn't get proper care that will be back complaining here again. Best part is, they most likely won't make the connection that without those hundreds of nurses the standard of care suffered.

Health care is important, education is important, emergency services are important...right now they are all running as lean as possible, cut them more and we will suffer...wait and see.

The complaints will roll in..."it took 25 minutes for the cops to arrive", "the fire department only showed up with one truck and I lost my house", "my loved ones I.V hasn't been changed"...And people will blame the cops, the fire fighters, and the nurses, instead of the laying the blame on the ones who made the cuts. Typical...

Well said.

Most of the ones doing the talking havent needed the help yet! When they do they'll appreciate it. Or like you said they'll play the blame game. Either way they're guaranteed crappy service if their beloved cuts go thru...

[AndrewM]

DOOOMMMMMMMM! LOL.
For the ones mad at all the cuts, how do you propose the government saves money? Simple fact. Alberta's debt is increasing as they are spending more than they take in.

AHS budget cut. Education budget cut. Both fire front line staff rather than cleaning up the systems. Seems like they aren't taking the wasteful spending seriously and are just trying to make the public mad.

[blacknorthernjk]

I will certainly agree it does seem as though they're trying to inflame the general public. Appears to be working as well. To what end I'm uncertain?

[jstubbs]

18,000 jobs lost in Alberta, largest single month job loss in Alberta since 2008 financial crisis

https://t.co/RmASKfvZdN?amp=1

[Ram94]

Originally Posted by huntsolo1

For the folks saying its a "scare tactic" from the union...maybe you're unsure of how unions work. It's not the union laying people off...that is the exact opposite of what unions fight for. It is the executives laying people off, and they are mostly all "union exempt", which means they work for the province (in AHS's case) directly. The union wants to keep positions, not lay them off!



And yes, after Kenny announces his "amazing" budget, then public sector organizations/departments figure out what they need to cut to stay in operation. In this case, they need to get rid of 100's of nurses. I know a lot of nurses, and they are all, every one of them, over worked. Ratios of 12 or more patients to 1 nurse...so take away a few hundred more of them and the ratios grow. Just a matter of time until people start receiving a lesser standard of care due to this. And you watch, it will be the same guys saying how "nursing is easy" and "it's not the nurses, it's the doctors doing the real work" that will be complaining how some loved one died or they didn't get proper care that will be back complaining here again. Best part is, they most likely won't make the connection that without those hundreds of nurses the standard of care suffered.



Health care is important, education is important, emergency services are important...right now they are all running as lean as possible, cut them more and we will suffer...wait and see.



The complaints will roll in..."it took 25 minutes for the cops to arrive", "the fire department only showed up with one truck and I lost my house", "my loved ones I.V hasn't been changed"...And people will blame the cops, the fire fighters, and the nurses, instead of the laying the blame on the ones who made the cuts. Typical...

The other connection that most public sector workers aren’t making is that the main source of income that our government has is oil based. When that suffers, everything suffers. There’s no more money for paycheques that come from tax dollars unfortunately. What needs to happen is more government policies that support industry and in turn, all Albertans benefit. Unfortunately they seem to always vote more to the “left” which helps them in the short term, but cripples the economy that funds them in the first place. Now we’re here...

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by huntsolo1

...right now they are all running as lean as possible, cut them more and we will suffer...wait and see.

I think you're version of lean and mine are very, very different. I scrolled through the first 10 pages, composed of directors, paramedics, nurses, pharmacists, managers, assistants, analysts, techs, etc., and think I saw two individuals making less than $125,000.00 annually.

Link

Paying a Registered Nurse $209,879.22/annually is ridiculous in my mind. But to each their own I guess.

[Off in the Bushes]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I think you're version of lean and mine are very, very different. I scrolled through the first 10 pages, composed of directors, paramedics, nurses, pharmacists, managers, assistants, analysts, techs, etc., and think I saw two individuals making less than $125,000.00 annually.

Link

Paying a Registered Nurse $209,879.22/annually is ridiculous in my mind. But to each their own I guess.

If you think its ridiculous do their job see what they see and then sleep at night. I for one would pay them what ever the wanted to not have to witness that trauma.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Off in the Bushes

I for one would pay them what ever the wanted to not have to witness that trauma.

Pretty hard to have a ration budget discussion if that's the mind set, and yes, the budget will always, always be to low and they'll never have enough money.

[JamesB]

Originally Posted by huntsolo1

For the folks saying its a "scare tactic" from the union...maybe you're unsure of how unions work. It's not the union laying people off...that is the exact opposite of what unions fight for. It is the executives laying people off, and they are mostly all "union exempt", which means they work for the province (in AHS's case) directly. The union wants to keep positions, not lay them off!

And yes, after Kenny announces his "amazing" budget, then public sector organizations/departments figure out what they need to cut to stay in operation. In this case, they need to get rid of 100's of nurses. I know a lot of nurses, and they are all, every one of them, over worked. Ratios of 12 or more patients to 1 nurse...so take away a few hundred more of them and the ratios grow. Just a matter of time until people start receiving a lesser standard of care due to this. And you watch, it will be the same guys saying how "nursing is easy" and "it's not the nurses, it's the doctors doing the real work" that will be complaining how some loved one died or they didn't get proper care that will be back complaining here again. Best part is, they most likely won't make the connection that without those hundreds of nurses the standard of care suffered.

Health care is important, education is important, emergency services are important...right now they are all running as lean as possible, cut them more and we will suffer...wait and see.

The complaints will roll in..."it took 25 minutes for the cops to arrive", "the fire department only showed up with one truck and I lost my house", "my loved ones I.V hasn't been changed"...And people will blame the cops, the fire fighters, and the nurses, instead of the laying the blame on the ones who made the cuts. Typical...

Public sector wages are as high as they are because of the unions. Because the wages are so high, the numbers of employees is not supportable. Pay them less and hire more.
I have spent much of the last 3 years dealing with nursing staff from the patient side and my experience is that although there are many good people in the system, there are many more lazy and incompetent ones. I saw gaggles of nurses every night outside the ICU talking incessantly about how to maximize their overtime, change their shifts and minimize their work, all this while my son was waiting for treatment. More than a few times I had to go break up the union meeting to get him catheterized. Sorry you won't ever get me to agree that there is not a great deal of re structuring and cost saving to be had in the system.
Is AHS part of the problem? Absolutely. And they are trying to get their budgets inflated again by using scare tactics. There needs to be a big house cleaning there too.
The whole system is broken, and suggesting that budget cuts will lead to doom is ridiculous.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by JamesB

Public sector wages are as high as they are because of the unions. Because the wages are so high, the numbers of employees is not supportable. Pay them less and hire more.
I have spent much of the last 3 years dealing with nursing staff from the patient side and my experience is that although there are many good people in the system, there are many more lazy and incompetent ones. I saw gaggles of nurses every night outside the ICU talking incessantly about how to maximize their overtime, change their shifts and minimize their work, all this while my son was waiting for treatment. More than a few times I had to go break up the union meeting to get him catheterized. Sorry you won't ever get me to agree that there is not a great deal of re structuring and cost saving to be had in the system.
Is AHS part of the problem? Absolutely. And they are trying to get their budgets inflated again by using scare tactics. There needs to be a big house cleaning there too.
The whole system is broken, and suggesting that budget cuts will lead to doom is ridiculous.

Everyone’s wage is what it is because of unions.
Public sector wages weren’t an issue when oil was $80-100 were they.
It’s not middle class nurses and teachers that are ruining this economy but they sure are an easy target in a downturn.

[Newlyretired]

Originally Posted by Flatlandliver

Everyone’s wage is what it is because of unions.
Public sector wages weren’t an issue when oil was $80-100 were they.
It’s not middle class nurses and teachers that are ruining this economy but they sure are an easy target in a downturn.

Sorry comrade but Bull, my wage and benefits is because of me and no one else. In the 40plus years of working the only time I was unemployed was because of a railroad union going on strike. I quickly learned that it does not matter how hard you work, how smart you are the extra effort you put in, if you below to a union that means **** all period.

Have never worked for a union since and have now retired to enjoy my fruits of labour.