Convince me "hunting" coyotes makes sense

[beansgunsghandi]

I think that "hunting" coyotes has far less to do with "predator" control than people simply going out and blasting animals for the "fun" of it. Same with gophers. It's just wrong to me, and in fact messes up the whole system. Kill coyotes, more gophers, rabbits, etc, how complicated is this to see? Poison gophers, hawks eat poisoned gopher, more gophers...

Everything I have read or seen tells me that killing off coyotes does not in the long-run or even in the seasonal short run make a significant difference in area populations. To put it another way, all the "I'm controlling predators" arguments are pretty much worthless unless supported by some research or even common sense.

"While coyote control can be effective in eliminating specific individuals, it will not help reduce local populations. Coyotes have a compensatory, density‐dependant breeding rate. Killing coyotes disrupts population structure causing more coyotes to breed and have larger litters. Coyotes will also quickly
fill into vacated habitat from adjacent areas. For these reasons, eradication efforts frequently lead to increases in local coyote populations."

There is a lot of research out there that says pretty much the same thing. If anyone here remembers the hunter ed course there's a similar logic applied as to why we can hunt deer etc. within reason; the population will expand to the carrying capacity of the eco system. Kill a bunch of coyotes, you'll end up with more.

Part of my family has ranched for many generations. I'm not in that business myself, but I've spent a fair amount of time working on that ranch, and I've seen problems with coyotes so I don't think I'm naive. I just don't think the research or even historical record supports killing coyotes in the near-random manner that's currently practiced.

But show me some research that randomly killing coyotes reduces predation long-term, I will genuinely look at it and think about it, and if the evidence supports randomly killing coyotes (or gophers) I'll change my mind. So come on, show me that shooting coyotes makes sense or actually does anything positive at all. I can see shooting a coyote or pack that is genuinely threatening your stock during calving season or even your own dog or something but as a policy, no. Right now anyone shooting coyotes randomly is the same in my book as any person who kills any animal for the fun of it, a sick bastart.

Oh, and I'm not an "anti," I hunt hard and work for hunter access as my past posts show.

[Pioneer2]

Sounds like you've already made up your mind why bother with a debate?Harold..........over population leads to mange and a lingering death.Easy to kill pests like gophers satisfy those into bloodletting with sheer #'s of targets

[jaylow?]

who cares what you think, get back to your hacky sack game hippie. shoot em all!

[airbornedeerhunter]

This is just more fuel for the anti's! Fighting amongst ourselves over who does what and what so and so thinks about what the other guy is doing in the woods legally. If you don't want to hunt and shoot yotes and gophers--don't. I don't necessarily agree with all "types" of hunting, but I don't care because, if it does'nt appeal to me I just don't partake in it and stick to what I enjoy doing in the bush and not worry about what the other guy is doing. There's a saying at work that has served me well over the years----"STAY IN YOUR LANE BUD'S"

[Lone_Wolf]

I won't voice my opinion, though I do see both sides of this topic, however I do know threads like this always cause a big fight and hard feelings. Wouldn't be a bad idea for a mod to lock 'er up before it gets out of control.

[beansgunsghandi]

Thanks for the reasonable replies. I'm not calling anyone a "sick bastart," I'm saying that's how I feel about the act of randomly killing something, and that's what I see going on with coyote hunting. Edit: I can see how it looks like that to someone reading the comment, my apologies for the comment. I'd edit it if I could.

I get that people enjoy hunting coyotes, they must or they wouldn't do it. I don't take enjoyment out of killing animals for no reason; surely there are some reasons to randomly kill coyotes that make sense? I am seriously, genuinely open to the idea, I just want to see some real evidence.

Here's some more thought on the subject: "When dealing with coyote conflicts, history shows "bounties" or "culls" are not effective. Most coyotes removed under these programs are the easy-to-catch juveniles or transient animals passing through an area, not the breeding adults that are most often the problem. In addition, programs such as "bounties" don’t target the specific animals causing the conflict or problem in specific areas, but rather indiscriminately target all coyotes across a broad region"

It's not a pink vs. red discussion at all. Let's see some evidence. I've presented some, no one else has.

[M70]

"In the September 2009 O.F.A.H. News Update, O.F.A.H. Biologist Ed Reid “suggests that the increase in coyote-human conflicts reflects two things: when prey is abundant, coyote numbers increase. Reid also thinks coyotes and ‘brush-wolves’ appear to be losing their natural wariness in areas where they are not hunted.” Reid is then quoted as saying that “[t]he greatest benefit of hunting coyotes may not be the reduction of their numbers, but the impact hunting has on their ‘education’. Hunted coyotes are more wary of people and our enterprises and livestock.”

Source: Ottawa Sun

(The OFAH is the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters.)

The aggressive coyotes that come near my yard might get a chance to get "educated" if I miss.

[praire hunter]

after having to put down a couple hour old calf that a coyote got ahold of and ripped its back end apart, i have no problem shooting any coyote that comes within range.

[NBFK]

I love the color red there is no other color I would ever love. Red is the coolest color in the world. Now convince me that pink is best color my minds not made up at all......why don't you google it if your that concerned. A lot of the cattle farmers land I hunt on tell me to shoot coyotes if I want to hunt there. Nothing beats the sound of a ballistic tip hitting a yote. Did I mention I don't like this thread? Convince srd to protect coyotes if you think were sick!

[TreeGuy]

I'd have happily attempted to try and convince you BBG. Unfortunately, you had to puncuate a well written post with.....

Right now anyone shooting coyotes randomly is the same in my book as any person who kills any animal for the fun of it, a sick bastart.

Signed,
Just Another Sick Bastart

[220swifty]

Oh, and I'm not an "anti," I hunt hard and work for hunter access as my past posts show.

How the hell do you hunt tofu?

I guess i'm a sick bastart too. Gonna enjoy the Christmas break killing the coyotes for fun.

[Frans]

There are arguments, but I'm with Treeguy on this one.

[Jamie]

I hunt for the sake of hunting.. Not for the meat, but for the ability to hunt.
And that includes the want to hunt anything that is legal.

I wonder if I am also a "Sick Bastart"?????

Jamie

[cohod]

Originally Posted by Pioneer2

Sounds like you've already made up your mind why bother with a debate?

^^^Pretty much sums it up.

what are your thoughts on trapping?...

cohod

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by beansgunsghandi

I think that "hunting" coyotes has far less to do with "predator" control than people simply going out and blasting animals for the "fun" of it. Same with gophers. It's just wrong to me, and in fact messes up the whole system. Kill coyotes, more gophers, rabbits, etc, how complicated is this to see? Poison gophers, hawks eat poisoned gopher, more gophers...

Everything I have read or seen tells me that killing off coyotes does not in the long-run or even in the seasonal short run make a significant difference in area populations. To put it another way, all the "I'm controlling predators" arguments are pretty much worthless unless supported by some research or even common sense.

"While coyote control can be effective in eliminating specific individuals, it will not help reduce local populations. Coyotes have a compensatory, density‐dependant breeding rate. Killing coyotes disrupts population structure causing more coyotes to breed and have larger litters. Coyotes will also quickly
fill into vacated habitat from adjacent areas. For these reasons, eradication efforts frequently lead to increases in local coyote populations."

There is a lot of research out there that says pretty much the same thing. If anyone here remembers the hunter ed course there's a similar logic applied as to why we can hunt deer etc. within reason; the population will expand to the carrying capacity of the eco system. Kill a bunch of coyotes, you'll end up with more.

Part of my family has ranched for many generations. I'm not in that business myself, but I've spent a fair amount of time working on that ranch, and I've seen problems with coyotes so I don't think I'm naive. I just don't think the research or even historical record supports killing coyotes in the near-random manner that's currently practiced.

But show me some research that randomly killing coyotes reduces predation long-term, I will genuinely look at it and think about it, and if the evidence supports randomly killing coyotes (or gophers) I'll change my mind. So come on, show me that shooting coyotes makes sense or actually does anything positive at all. I can see shooting a coyote or pack that is genuinely threatening your stock during calving season or even your own dog or something but as a policy, no. Right now anyone shooting coyotes randomly is the same in my book as any person who kills any animal for the fun of it, a sick bastart.

Oh, and I'm not an "anti," I hunt hard and work for hunter access as my past posts show.

So what's the problem then?(see bolded) And I'm not a "sick bastart"

[Marlin xl7]

Well, ranchers I know that have problems with coyotes say, " shoot all of them" , I can see it when it is calving season, but personally I enjoy hunting coyotes and regularly don't try to take all of them out of a certain area. Just enough so they are not a large problem. Even taking 2 coyotes off a ranch is usually enough to keep the dogs away. For example, on my own farm, we have shot quite a few coyotes, and now when they see the truck from a few miles away they are on the run for the neighbours place, they used to act like they didn't see us, and at one point they were becoming fairly aggressive towards humans. Since we have been shooting the coyotes we have also seen an increase in ducks, geese, and deer that are on the ranch. Sure there are still some coyotes around, there always will be, that will not change anytime soon, but at least now they are not as aggressive.

As for the actual hunting of coyotes, as I said before I really enjoy it. A lot of prep work and time go into hunting coyotes ( usually ), scouting, calling, and deceiving these smart animals is quite a chore. I do it to keep my hunting skills sharp during the off season, sometimes I will call, and other times I will try to make a stalk on one with my bow.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by beansgunsghandi

While coyote control can be effective in eliminating specific individuals, it will not help reduce local populations. Coyotes have a compensatory, density‐dependant breeding rate. Killing coyotes disrupts population structure causing more coyotes to breed and have larger litters. Coyotes will also quickly fill into vacated habitat from adjacent areas. For these reasons, eradication efforts frequently lead to increases in local coyote populations."

Is that a scientific fact or just your opinion? If it's a scientific fact then the bounty that they had in Sask last year was pointless. Personally, I would expect that if enough coyotes were killed it would take awhile for the numbers to get back to where they were. Assuming of course that coyotes would still not be able to have litters of 30 pups at a time. Anyone know if there's any noticeable change in the numbers in Sask or if last years bounty was effective at all?

Some opinions are best not heard. Especially on a hunting forum if it's condemning a particular type of hunting. Unless, of course, you're reeeeally bored!

[garand]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Is that a scientific fact or just your opinion? If it's a scientific fact then the bounty that they had in Sask last year was pointless. Personally, I would expect that if enough coyotes were killed it would take awhile for the numbers to get back to where they were. Assuming of course that coyotes would still not be able to have litters of 30 pups at a time. Anyone know if there's any noticeable change in the numbers in Sask or if last years bounty was effective at all?

Some opinions are best not heard. Especially on a hunting forum if it's condemning a particular type of hunting. Unless, of course, you're reeeeally bored!

Short term it is right if you bust up pack dynamics that subordinates will breed and cause a "increase". Anyone that hunts them knows it is easy to clean up the pups than the more seasoned dogs though. You turn that tide pretty quick. And there is more shooting

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by beansgunsghandi

I think that "hunting" coyotes has far less to do with "predator" control than people simply going out and blasting animals for the "fun" of it. Same with gophers. It's just wrong to me, and in blah blah blah

Yet another misled Canmore resident.
Humans occupy a role in the eco-system (food chain).
Predators ALWAYS kill lesser predators.

Merry Christmas Beans.