Elk Island National Park considers hunt to cull herds

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

If there is money to be made on the excess elk and moose, the Government will probably do what they want with the money or put it back into the parks. I see no incentive to let recreational hunters benefit.

The sad truth is that this is a cull or an extermination. Just supervising will be a drain on tax dollars and a big fiasco. No matter what they decide there will be many threads of debate and heated argument.

You "see no incentive to let recreational hunters benifit"?? That is a trully sad sentiment for someone on a hunting or outdoorsmen forum.
How naive to worry about the tax dollars. When you and I are long gone the govt. will still have limitless tax dollars to spend or waste as they see fit.

I just hope some member or two went to that meeting tonight and can let us know how it went. I doubt any decisions were announced, and I hope it didn't degenerate into a shouting match like the town hall meetings about bill 6.

[J0HN_R1]

Originally Posted by waterninja

I wonder if these are what they call jump rails ?

From the sounds of it, and using the basic idea that a "jump gate" or "jump rail" is a section of fence that ungulates are able to "JUMP" over. Versus the current 8 foot high "impassable" post & mesh fences that surround National Parks like Banff.

So I would say no, that blue thing is not a "jump rail". Not to mention, any deer or elk would be easily able to clear the fence attached to that blue ATV bridge-thingy.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by J0HN_R1

From the sounds of it, and using the basic idea that a "jump gate" or "jump rail" is a section of fence that ungulates are able to "JUMP" over. Versus the current 8 foot high "impassable" post & mesh fences that surround National Parks like Banff.

So I would say no, that blue thing is not a "jump rail". Not to mention, any deer or elk would be easily able to clear the fence attached to that blue ATV bridge-thingy.

Thanks john. I think the consenses is that it is a sort of OHV. bridge.

[ryeguy21]

Did anyone else make it to the meeting? I assumed with all the uproar on here and all the outdoor enthusiasts upset at certain items that there were going to be hundreds of us there from the forum.

[Akoch]

Interesting that on an outdoorsmen forum so many are saying suggesting options other than what would benefit the outdoorsmen of Alberta. Hunts can be done ethically and safely, even in the confines of a fenced park. They could provide thousands of pounds of meat, hundreds of positive experiences, and countless hours of bliss for the average outdoorsmen of Alberta if set up as an actual hunt.

If set up as a cull with loads of people and rifles it will look the same as the CWD or Suffield culls.

I'm interested in how this will play out but not super hopeful.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by ryeguy21

Did anyone else make it to the meeting? I assumed with all the uproar on here and all the outdoor enthusiasts upset at certain items that there were going to be hundreds of us there from the forum.

There have only been about 25 members who posted anything on this thread, not hundreds.
Cat

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

There have only been about 25 members who posted anything on this thread, not hundreds.
Cat

I agree with most of what you posted, except I don't understand the Suffield remark. I was not lucky enough to get drawn so don't have first hand knowledge on how the Suffield hunts went. From almost everything I read about the suffield hunts, they were very well organized, and most hunters enjoyed the experiance.

[Outdoorfanatic]

Was at the "meeting" last night. Very poorly organized. There was no presentation just a lot of chaos. All parks staff only one of whom was a biologist and all of them very young. Just a lot of people talking over one another. The question I don't understand is why are they considering installing jump rails all around the park that apparently would allow everything except Bison to come and go freely but haven't now for more than a decade sent elk down into Blackfoot where there is already a hunting season. They could do that any day and issue the appropriate tags for this up coming season. I don't see why they couldn't also allow 20-30 bison down into blackfoot as well and issue 10 lottery tags and 20 First Nations tags on first come first serve basis much like hay lake zama bison hunts. Find it very interesting that once again another jurisdiction is expressing need for more elk to be killed as well as other ungulates.

[waterninja]

There is a fresh video and news report about the meeting on google, if any one has the skill to post here. Apparantly it was a full house.
There were some interviews with...
...one person representing anti hunting there period.
... elk foundation rep. who doesn't like the idea of hunting on nat. park land which kind of surprized me. This "Cull" is for the future health of the animals.
... an Indian band chief from a band that I have never heard of and can't find on the list of AB Indian reserves or official tribal names saying Elk Island Park is their traditional land and they should be allowed to hunt there. The Popachoos?
Not one responce was aired about the chance of AB residents being able to participate in a hunt if there is one. Apparantly not one person or group showed up and advocated for AB resident hunters. Or, Maybe, their views are not being aired.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by waterninja

You "see no incentive to let recreational hunters benifit"?? That is a trully sad sentiment for someone on a hunting or outdoorsmen forum.

I did not say I did not want recreational hunters to benefit. I was talking about the big $$bucks$$ someone mentioned for future generations. If there is $$cash$$ to be made, it would probably go back to parks. I see no incentive for the government or parks to do anything for recreational hunters, other than letting them fill their freezers.

[waterninja]

I agree with OF about letting elk and maybe some bison and moose into Blackfoot. It shares a fence with Elk Island and is already set up for hunting. Also, there is an ambudance of grasing in Blackfoot. Heck they have allowed herds of cattle to graze there for years.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I did not say I did not want recreational hunters to benefit. I was talking about the big $$bucks$$ someone mentioned for future generations. If there is $$cash$$ to be made, it would probably go back to parks. I see no incentive for the government or parks to do anything for recreational hunters, other than letting them fill their freezers.

Sorry Covey. That is not how your post was worded, however I know how easy it is to make a simple grammatical error and have what your trying to say come out wrong. I agree with you about the money issue.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Sorry Covey. That is not how your post was worded, however I know how easy it is to make a simple grammatical error and have what your trying to say come out wrong. I agree with you about the money issue.

Yep! Being older and never learned how to type. Some of this stuff looks good and I usually even read before hitting send

Maybe its more about the older thing than the typing

[waterninja]

Have to say that this whole issue seems to have been orchestrated from the start. At first there were over 400 elk that had to go. Now its 225 and bison and moose have been added. At first it sounded like something had to be done quickly to protect the habitat from being destroyed, and now they are talking about a "10 year mngt. plan".
I have yet to hear or read an actual presentation from someone in authority that outlines just what, if any problem really exists and just how serious it is. All we have really seen or heard is what the newspeople and interest groups are making up.

[Outdoorfanatic]

Park Biologist last night did make the point that forage in the park is being eroded pretty quick. So I took that to mean that something needs to be done now but also for the long term. And I would have interviewed on behalf of the pro hunting sane but of course no one asked me.

Hope government people realize that without the hunter as in "recreational" hunter there's no need for their job to exist.

[NCC]

Turn some wolves and problem grizzly bears loose inside the high fence and let nature take it's course. If the desired result is fewer ungulates, that will work. If the populations get too low, have some subsistence hunters shoot a few gbears. 🙄

[Big Lou]

Originally Posted by waterninja

There is a fresh video and news report about the meeting on google, if any one has the skill to post here. Apparantly it was a full house.
There were some interviews with...
...one person representing anti hunting there period.
... elk foundation rep. who doesn't like the idea of hunting on nat. park land which kind of surprized me. This "Cull" is for the future health of the animals.
... an Indian band chief from a band that I have never heard of and can't find on the list of AB Indian reserves or official tribal names saying Elk Island Park is their traditional land and they should be allowed to hunt there. The Popachoos?
Not one responce was aired about the chance of AB residents being able to participate in a hunt if there is one. Apparantly not one person or group showed up and advocated for AB resident hunters. Or, Maybe, their views are not being aired.

I don't suppose the band you never heard of was "Papastayo/Papachase"? Only reason I ask is because I know there was an attempted land claim 15-20 years ago by that band for that general area.

[covey ridge]

It seems that this whole discussion started with an article released by parks announcing an open house to discuss a future elk population problem where they no longer have the option of transplanting elsewhere due to CWD. They mentioned a 10 year plan. For me it seems good that they are thinking long term and are asking input.

I think it is unfortunate, but when it gets to threads like this, the push is by special interest groups and individuals with special interests and by groups and individuals with more interest in opposition to certain groups.

In all of this, only a few have concentrated on the welfare of the elk herd.

[jaylow?]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Sorry Jay, but you don't have a clue. You make it sound like the Elk are in a schoolyard or something. Elk Island Park might be fenced, but it is huge. Might as well say that hunting on private property, or on crown land is also "canned" hunting. Or that fishing in a lake is unsportsmanlike because it is bordered by a shoreline.
So what is your solution to the overpopulation problem? I would really like to know. I'm betting you want to put Wolves, Bears and Cougars in there and let mother nature sort them out.
"Canned" hunt? People with your attitude are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

EDIT... Hunters have a hard time harvesting an Elk or Deer in Blackfoot, which border's Elk Island, despite all it's trails.

Part of the problem hey

Park is so over populated with no natural predators and high fenced so they float the idea of a hunt . Not fair chase . Make sure you register your horns with SCI and tell everyone the story of your hard park hunt. Maybe hit up African lion safari in Ontario for your big Africa hunt .

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

Hope government people realize that without the hunter as in "recreational" hunter there's no need for their job to exist.

Their job exists to manage wildlife for all Canadians. The recreational hunter is not the reason for management or biologist jobs, but the recreational hunter is a tool to manage herd numbers.

[catnthehat]

Personally speaking I would not be looking for antlers on a cull like this but to put an elk in the freezer
Cat

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Personally speaking I would not be looking for antlers on a cull like this but to put an elk in the freezer
Cat

Same here, although I have to admit that I don't get overly jazzed about the idea of going hunting in there, other than the fact that it's relatively close to home and there's a good chance of success.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Personally speaking I would not be looking for antlers on a cull like this but to put an elk in the freezer
Cat

X2, I doubt you can taste the difference between an elk from elk island, or an elk from island lake!

[Deezel]

Originally Posted by catnthehat
Personally speaking I would not be looking for antlers on a cull like this but to put an elk in the freezer
Cat

I'm willing to bet that there would be a lot less interest in this if the head/antlers of animal was not allowed to leave the park. I'm also willing to bet that First Nations wouldn't be so interested in it either, if that was the case.

Personally, I like the idea of turning the cull into a chance for youth hunters.

[claystone]

Originally Posted by Deezel

I'm willing to bet that there would be a lot less interest in this if the head/antlers of animal was not allowed to leave the park. I'm also willing to bet that First Nations wouldn't be so interested in it either, if that was the case.

Personally, I like the idea of turning the cull into a chance for youth hunters.

Hey if I end up going there it's to fill my freezer , if you want a big rack go get one , I've no interest in antlers.

[leo]

If I were managing the wildlife populations I would propose the following. Have a lottery for the 225 animals to be culled next year. 1000 tickets at $10 each. There's $10,000 in general revenue that should go towards the parks general revenue. Draw in random order the 225 recipients. Give them a date they can "pick up" their elk or bison. The park staff should do a round up of this many animals and run them through the chute. Bull, cow, yearling. whatever is in the chute at the time is what you get. Do it the same as a slaughter house. This gives the park biologist the opportunity to say yea or nay to an individual animal. No random bullets flying, no wounded critters, and most importantly, no black eye for hunters. It's a cull not a hunt.

[DiabeticKripple]

open it up to everyone through a lottery draw, no priority. Natives can apply through the lottery.

[nube]

Originally Posted by leo

If I were managing the wildlife populations I would propose the following. Have a lottery for the 225 animals to be culled next year. 1000 tickets at $10 each. There's $10,000 in general revenue that should go towards the parks general revenue. Draw in random order the 225 recipients. Give them a date they can "pick up" their elk or bison. The park staff should do a round up of this many animals and run them through the chute. Bull, cow, yearling. whatever is in the chute at the time is what you get. Do it the same as a slaughter house. This gives the park biologist the opportunity to say yea or nay to an individual animal. No random bullets flying, no wounded critters, and most importantly, no black eye for hunters. It's a cull not a hunt.

I used to buy Bison from Elk island years ago like this in a way. They auctioned off X amount of certain age class and top bidders won. We got a few bison that were 1.5 year olds for $250. Grain fed for 6 months and then cooked them on the BarB Q lol Yum yum.

I like the idea of a youth hunt as well.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Big Lou

I don't suppose the band you never heard of was "Papastayo/Papachase"? Only reason I ask is because I know there was an attempted land claim 15-20 years ago by that band for that general area.

I have no idea how it's spelled. All I know is that some fellow claims he is speaking on behalf of them, in the news footage aired.
I have know learned that there used to be a band of them somewhere in that area, but they were one of the first bands in AB (Canada) to sell any claims they might have to the Govt. They then disapeared or merged with other nations. That is why there is no mention of them in the First Nations Registry.
Funny this guy pop's up out of nowhere to claim rights for a band/tribe/firstnation that no longer exist's.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by leo

If I were managing the wildlife populations I would propose the following. Have a lottery for the 225 animals to be culled next year. 1000 tickets at $10 each. There's $10,000 in general revenue that should go towards the parks general revenue. Draw in random order the 225 recipients. Give them a date they can "pick up" their elk or bison. The park staff should do a round up of this many animals and run them through the chute. Bull, cow, yearling. whatever is in the chute at the time is what you get. Do it the same as a slaughter house. This gives the park biologist the opportunity to say yea or nay to an individual animal. No random bullets flying, no wounded critters, and most importantly, no black eye for hunters. It's a cull not a hunt.

This concept is exactly what many within the "Compassionate Conservation" community ( an alias for anti-hunting wildlife management) are currently lobbying for.

There is an opportunity here for a significant change in how Federal and Provincial jurisdictions manage wildlife within "protected" landscapes.

This could go in favour of including hunting as a valid management practice both within parks and other lands, or as you suggest, to eliminate hunting as an option when populations needs to be reduced.