Most effective 12 gauge load for bear defense

[karolko]

Last week i asked about people's opinions on a S&W 500 for bear defense.

Unfortunetly i will be heading into the bush faster than originally anticipated, therefore i will unable to purchase a revolver and become comfortable enough with it before i leave. Thus i have decided that i will be lugging a round a 12 gauge pump in the field.

I was wondering if you boys could give me your opinions on what would be the best shot load to use for bear defense? And obviously where could i get some as well.

Thanks guys, looking forward to the answers.

Adrian Karolko

[Tundra Monkey]

I like slug, slug, slug, slug, slug, slug and then another slug.

You are going to be making a close range shot on any bear that you need to shoot so it has the stopping power that you're going to want.

I do not like using buckshot as warning shots. I like to put warning shots in close proximity to the bear and I worry about about a stray round ball doing something stupid and hitting it.

I also carry a pen styled bear banger or ones that are usable in the guage but I will finger load them...not carry them in it.

tm

[steve]

x2 TM

[colour86]

ya slugs. i always have a pack of slugs in my pocket if im in bear country/ camping. i wouldn't trust buckshot enough. slug is raw stopping power lol.

[ShawnM]

When I did use a bear carry it was a banger then three rounds of 00-buck and one slug.

A big noise will stop 99% of charges and making noise while hiking will prevent 99%.

Unless you're out hunting give them some warning you're coming and you'll never see them. And no sense in pumping a slug into a bear without giving him a chance to reconsider.

I have spent untold days in the back country and I've never had a need to kill a bear. (except when hunting of course) I've backed away from a few and used a banger once but that was it.

Don't go in looking to kill a bear unless it's a last resort.

[Nait Hadya]

hard to put your faith or life on something you have not field tested your self. years ago i shot a big elk at close range,on the run with a 3"slug and when he hit the ground, he never so much as twiched. you have to hit the target though....

[ShawnM]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

hard to put your faith or life on something you have not field tested your self. years ago i shot a big elk at close range,on the run with a 3"slug and when he hit the ground, he never so much as twiched. you have to hit the target though....

Yeah well I'll stick to my bear spray now, I have plenty of faith in that...

[Dumbo_Dave]

I once had a bag of .32 cal balls for muzzleoader. Experimenting, I found that I could load 9 of these balls in three staggered layers of three. I weighed the 9 balls and used an appropriate load of shotgun powder. I was using Winchester Powders for almost everything back then and I think I used whatever worked with the weight of pellets I was using. Would have to look it up to be sure - that was probably 40 years ago.....

I only ever fired one of them - at a Spruce stump from about 10 yards - just about cut that stump in two. I carried a handful around for years but never had to use one in earnest.

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by ShawnM

When I did use a bear carry it was a banger then three rounds of 00-buck and one slug.

A big noise will stop 99% of charges and making noise while hiking will prevent 99%.

Unless you're out hunting give them some warning you're coming and you'll never see them. And no sense in pumping a slug into a bear without giving him a chance to reconsider.

I have spent untold days in the back country and I've never had a need to kill a bear. (except when hunting of course) I've backed away from a few and used a banger once but that was it.

Don't go in looking to kill a bear unless it's a last resort.

ShawnM, I would re-evaluate this if I were you.

If you see a bear and he is far enough away to warrant a bear banger....you will have time to finger load one or dig out that pen type banger and use it. Or yell at him and see what his next move is gonna be. If it is close up surprise you will not want that banger as your first option.

Keep in mind that the OP is going to be in grizz country......and Central Barrenground Grizzly to boot. These are the most dangerous of all the grizz as they are predominantly meat eaters and not berry bears. He believes that he is number 1 on the food chain and you are not bigger than him. I agree that 99% of the time a loud noise will effectively end the threat....it's the 1% that can turn chitty in a hurry.

Also, any lethal shot that you take will very likely be head on and very close. If you are going to miss with a slug....you will also miss with buckshot. A lethal shot is a last ditch effort........if you miss it, you're screwed anyway......so don't. IMO you would be better off to hit him with a big chunk of lead rather than a bunch of little ones.....but that is just an opinion.

tm

[300-510]

Slugs,maybe mix em up with sabot if youre running a smoothbore I wouldnt be afraid at close range to run a few sabots.

[bear crossing]

If it happens that a bear is comming at you,i dont know how many guys out there that if if your skaking at all how accurate will that one slug is going to be .best bet ,alternate buckshot ,slug.reasonbeing buckshot ,you have 9/30 cal balls that is 9 chances instead of one better odds.try for head area that will take out senses then smack him with a slug.

A slug backed up by a few more slugs.

[fordtruckin]

All my friends load rounds of 00buck followed by 2 slugs. If a bear has charged you and you need to shoot its made its mind up to take you down. So first 2 shots of buck go to the head/face. If you blind the bugger then you got a bit of room to move for the 2 slugs. Anyways thats just our thoughts on it. I live in southern montana where there are a load of black bears and grizzlies. Last fall we had a guy eaten and 2 others mauled pretty bad. Anyways thats whats working here so.. unless you go to a 45/70 or 450 marlin. Good luck and stay safe!

From what I've seen and heard, a follow up shot is very unlikely to happen in a true self defence situation. The first shot better do it or it's likely to be game over.

[Dick284]

So has anyone actually had to flog a shotgun blast at a bear, and can give a real world account of how slugs or buck performed?

[6tmile]

A guy I work with shot a blackie up in camp with a 12 guage slug at about 40 yds and it was devastating, the bear wasnt charging but it dropped it right there. The exit was about the size of a coffee cup. Slugs do work. This was a hunting situation and not an attack, I think if I was using a shot gun for bear defense it would have the plug pulled and jammed full of slugs.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Dick284

So has anyone actually had to flog a shotgun blast at a bear, and can give a real world account of how slugs or buck performed?

More than a few times over the years, with an Mm37 Ithaca and with my SXS savage 311 - a couple of times within a few feet.
A;most all except for one or two were bears that were wounded by someone else, BTW, so they wewre very aware, aggressive and defensive!

the work VERY well, as long as the operator keeps his composure and focus.
I have also seen fail miserably at shooting a bear in the face with slugs - great big FAIL!!
Cat

[greylynx]

Old Greylynx has been running around with a shotgun plug in his gun for bear defense.

Can a guy pull the plug and run around in the bush with it claiming the gun is for self protection and not hunting?

Old Greylynx has always tried to stay out of trouble with the law.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Dick284

So has anyone actually had to flog a shotgun blast at a bear, and can give a real world account of how slugs or buck performed?

From what I've read, some of the old time hunters, followed wounded lions into the bush, carrying shotguns, loaded with buckshot. Close range, I don't know if it would matter which.

Grizz

[ShawnM]

Seriously guys, are you going to carry a 8lb shotty loaded with slugs to cover the 1/1000000000 chance you'll face a bear attack. Even more remote that you'll be made aware of it before he's feasting on your gooey insides?

30 years in the bush doing lightweight back packing, hunting, surveying, and general goofing around and I've never seen a full on death-to-the-human bear charge.

Like I said, I don't even carry a shotgun any more unless I'm hunting birds. I've seen video of a can of bear spray stopping a large polar bear in its tracks, that's good enough for me.

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

From what I've read, some of the old time hunters, followed wounded lions into the bush, carrying shotguns, loaded with buckshot. Close range, I don't know if it would matter which.

Grizz

I've heard of it with leopards but not lions but I guess it's possible.

[Git r Done]

In our 12 gauge defender we use a #7 shot then a slug then a #7 shot and then a slug etc.

[Bobby B.]

A buddy of mine completely scrambled a black bear's head at close range with birdshot out of a 12 gauge. From personal experience, I know a .22 rimfire round will penetrate a bundle of shingles at close range. I have some skulls from bears I 've killed and reason dictates that if a .22 rimfire round will penetrate a bundle of shingles, it will easily penetrate a bear's thin skull. My conclusion is a load of buckshot at close range will blow the skull off any bear to pieces. Put whatever you want 15 ft. in front of you and apply a round of 12 gauge 00 buckshot to it. There will be devastating damage, no doubt about it. A slug should work well enough if it contacts the bear in the right spot. A load of buckshot will produce a larger 'pattern' than a slug so that's what I'd use. A double barrel 12 gauge loaded with 00 buckshot at close range will produce very effective results. A PH I met in Africa carried a double barreled 12 gauge loaded with buckshot as his preferred choice when following up wounded leopards. That's good enough for me.

Bobby B.

[ABDUKNUT]

Slugs are your best bet for sure... even cheap deer slugs will take down pretty much any beast that walks, within attacking distance.

Buckshot offers no advantage whatsoever.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by ShawnM

Seriously guys, are you going to carry a 8lb shotty loaded with slugs to cover the 1/1000000000 chance you'll face a bear attack. Even more remote that you'll be made aware of it before he's feasting on your gooey insides?

30 years in the bush doing lightweight back packing, hunting, surveying, and general goofing around and I've never seen a full on death-to-the-human bear charge.

Like I said, I don't even carry a shotgun any more unless I'm hunting birds. I've seen video of a can of bear spray stopping a large polar bear in its tracks, that's good enough for me.

SXS when I was guiding , bear spray anytime else.
The pump used to sit in the corner of the main cabin, I shot one out of the door way at one time with it - it was a " middle of the night home invasion" situation!
Cat

[300-510]

My buddies dad shot one took 3 slugs to put him down,he says the only thing that gave an edge was the bear went after the one pack horse.Another guy I know from alaska shot one 4 slugs later,one glancing off the skull and no damage even done to skull but luckily his partner had 375 hh ,that sealed the deal.After that he traded in the 12 for 375hh.

[Tundra Monkey]

[QUOTE traded in the 12 for 375hh.[/QUOTE]

I think that a short double in a 375 would be the ideal defence weapon.

In all the camps I've worked we use 12's and 45-70's.

I like the pump because I'm pretty fast with it and have used it the most outta the 2. I will not use buckshot because if they are within 200yds of camp they are getting shot at (only exception is if I'm hunting and then I'll shoot if they get stupid).

tm

[Young Eldon]

My suggestions:
Air Horn, shell crackers, rubber slugs, bear spray and lead slugs - use them in that order as distance, bear behavior and time allow. Carry the horn, crackers and rubber slugs on your person and hand load them to warn the bears that are still out there about 50 -100m. Leave the area or behave appropriately based on whether the bear is showing defensive or predatory behaviors. Less than 10m use the spray on approaching bears unless the bear is upwind. When spray can't get too the bear and physical contact is obviously going to happen - use lead slugs on predatory behaving bears and playing dead on defensive bears. If playing dead is failing (continued mauling, bites or missing flesh) shoot all the lead slugs into the bear's front end as your last resort (what you thought was a defensive bear may have turned predatory)!

If you don't know the difference between predatory and defensive bear behaviors you need to learn that as much as you need to learn what kind of lead to carry. This aint rocket science or absolutely fool proof but it is worthy of some learning and requires your keen observation and a cool head when needed.

Learn well and replace your bear spray annually or as needed. Think of it as cheap life insurance because you won't likely be able to afford any coverage from a conventional insurance company!
Enjoy the great outdoors - bears lend verisimilitude to it!!

[KegRiver]

Walk softly and carry a big stick.

My stick of choice, A 30 30 but any lever gun that size or bigger would do fine.
Shotguns are for the birds.

Yeah I've seen what a shotgun slug can do. Even bought a pack of em myself ONCE.

My 30 30 hits just as hard, reaches out further, cycles faster, and holds more ammo then my shotgun.

[Fordman]

Young Eldon. I'm just wondering if you actually thought about what you typed.
If playing dead is failing shoot into the front of the bear. Well in your world that might work but in mine good chance you would be just about dead and not able to use a shotgun anyway. Why would any normal sane person play dead when they are armed, sorry just doesn't make sense.