What happened to Milarm?

[Bolete]

I like Milarm, have shopped there for years, and have always been treated fairly. In fact, my first firearm purchase was made there in the 1980s. I continue to frequent the store, purchase ammo, accessories, knives, clothes etc. from them and know them well enough be be on first name basis.

That said - I haven't purchased firearms from there since the end of the LGR due to their practice of recording info. This makes me sad, as I enjoy going there, and would rather spend my dollars there, but I am not willing to compromise on this.
Not only that, but it appears this practice may well be illegal under the provincial privacy act:

http://servicealberta.ca/pipa/documents/PIPAguide.pdf

See page 23:

Refusing to sell a product or service
An organization cannot make an individual’s consent to collect, use or disclose personal information a condition of supplying him or her with a product or service, if the organization is asking the individual to consent to something that is beyond what is needed to supply that product or service (section 7(2)).

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by Bolete

I like Milarm, have shopped there for years, and have always been treated fairly. In fact, my first firearm purchase was made there in the 1980s. I continue to frequent the store, purchase ammo, accessories, knives, clothes etc. from them and know them well enough be be on first name basis.

That said - I haven't purchased firearms from there since the end of the LGR due to their practice of recording info. This makes me sad, as I enjoy going there, and would rather spend my dollars there, but I am not willing to compromise on this.
Not only that, but it appears this practice may well be illegal under the provincial privacy act:

http://servicealberta.ca/pipa/documents/PIPAguide.pdf

See page 23:

Refusing to sell a product or service
An organization cannot make an individual’s consent to collect, use or disclose personal information a condition of supplying him or her with a product or service, if the organization is asking the individual to consent to something that is beyond what is needed to supply that product or service (section 7(2)).

This is why I was asking why they continue to record personal information condition to the sale of firearms. I wasn't attacking millarm as I have never been there, as I stated I was asking a gunshop owner why they have that code of practice. I didn't like his answer but I appreciate the fact he took the time to answer my question.

[Dean2]

Madball

Best of luck with the new venture. Try to ignore the azzhats, those that wear their rectums for a hat, that just can't keep from responding on here, even though they now know you weren't even around when the things they are complaining about happened or haven't even been in your store.

I used to think it was only women that held onto to insignificant wrongs forever and brought them up for decades at every opportunity; but from being here on AO I can now tell you for sure there are a whole lot of girlieboys with the same propensity.(The one exception is I completely agree with those that don't want their info recorded when it isn't required. That is something you need to fix because it would impact whether I bought a gun there too.)

All the best and hope you have another great thirty years in business.

[qwert]

I find it interesting that Bolete and Dean2 first replied very positively in 2011 and identified as satisfied customers. Madball also responded in 2011 with appreciation for feedback and promises of improved service as a result.

The current posters have a mix of issues, but several including Bolete and Dean2 have addressed legitimate and specific privacy concerns relating to store policy as experienced by them and confirmed by Madball. The current Madball is not nearly as appreciative of the honest experience feedback, and even goes so far as to attack a reporter’s character and request that they not return. Madball makes assurances that private personal information is not copied or retained, but requires that we accept this on faith, and trust that there is no possibility of staff malintent or even simple incompetence.

Madball defends the company policy of gathering un-required information by claiming that invoices are destroyed soon after, but does not claim that information is not first collected or stored electronically. We regularly hear of breaches of computer security by hackers, and data theft by employees, and sale of data, and improper disposal of hard-drives, as well as the inherent insecurity of ‘cloud’ or remote storage. Whenever a business goes into receivership or new ownership, the databases become the property of the receiver or new owner to do with as they please. There is always the probability of unwarranted demands for all records by the CFO. There are many credible reports that even the Government of Canada Registry of Firearms has been hacked on several occasions, and also that the contents have been stolen by those having access but not authorized to copy or retain it.

All of the previous concerns are the reason that the Amendments to the Firearms Act ending the LGR, removed any requirement to obtain or retain any personal or private buyer information, or maintain any ‘Ledger’ for the CFO, and also for the passage of the Provincial Privacy Act..

A seller is free to make personal or company policy only so far as it does not conflict with the requirements of the Privacy Act, which the MilArm company policy seems to do, (see post #122 for link and extract). A buyer similarly is free to decline to supply any information that is ‘not required’ by law, and to make their purchases elsewhere, which it seems many previously satisfied customers like Bolete and Dean2 are doing.

If the CPC lose the fall election, we may soon see changes to the Firearms Act that will probably require sellers to keep this information (back-door registry), but until that happens, it is not currently required. I provide personal information on a strictly ‘need to know’ basis, and
I never let my PAL leave my hand, the seller is free to inspect it but not to record ANY information, (and I pay with cash).

Good Luck, YMMV.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Bolete

I like Milarm, have shopped there for years, and have always been treated fairly. In fact, my first firearm purchase was made there in the 1980s. I continue to frequent the store, purchase ammo, accessories, knives, clothes etc. from them and know them well enough be be on first name basis.

That said - I haven't purchased firearms from there since the end of the LGR due to their practice of recording info. This makes me sad, as I enjoy going there, and would rather spend my dollars there, but I am not willing to compromise on this.
Not only that, but it appears this practice may well be illegal under the provincial privacy act:

http://servicealberta.ca/pipa/documents/PIPAguide.pdf

See page 23:

Refusing to sell a product or service
An organization cannot make an individual’s consent to collect, use or disclose personal information a condition of supplying him or her with a product or service, if the organization is asking the individual to consent to something that is beyond what is needed to supply that product or service (section 7(2)).

Now, this I can certainly agree with. You can look at my PAL, no problem. But no one is certainly going to walk away with it, nor record information from it. If that doesn't satisfy the retailer, then I walk away from it and purchase elsewhere. And perhaps, who is to say that madball will not take note of this and educate his new staff? The young lady at Fly's Etc. who knows me on a 1st name basis asks to see my PAL when I purchase a firearm or ammunition. I have no problem with that whatsoever. She is simply being diligent about what her boss (Udo) told her to do in following up with the legalities of it all. In fact, I give her admiration for doing her job properly.

[madball]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

qwert,

* 3rd world people looking to steal something ???
* unkempt filth looking for an opportunity to steal a gun ???
* send the 3rd world trash on it's way ???

Did you somehow miss that.

And look at post #93, where did madball attack the poster's of the above's character??? He did however request that he shouldn't show up at the store with that attitude....so would I.

The post in question had some very serious racist remarks in it. I'll attack the character of people who talk in the manner he did 100% of the time. If that means he takes offence to it and never comes to the shop again, so be it, I don't need that kind of money.

[madball]

I have created a new thread with a press release from MilArm. I hope everyone here takes a moment to read it and comment in the new thread.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by madball

We dabbled in tru-spec and propper in very small amounts before my time here (8 years ago.) When we decided to go full scale with a clothing line, the quality and depth of 5.11 Tactical products were the deciding factor in bring 5.11 in and stopping tru-spec & propper.

Documents with client information are always destroyed before they are thrown out. We ensure that this happens every time

You are the 2nd person to mention someone going in the back room with a PAL for buying ammo. I have no idea who this person was, but I assure everyone that he doesn't work here any longer and no data was ever recorded.

Do you recall what ammo it was and what you paid for it?

Originally Posted by gitrdun

* 3rd world people looking to steal something ???
* unkempt filth looking for an opportunity to steal a gun ???
* send the 3rd world trash on it's way ???

He did however request that he shouldn't show up at the store with that attitude....so would I.

ok a little over the top and exaggerated, yes. you can't be racist to poor people so it's not racism. but that is the nature of the area. i don't feel like walking to my car and loading a gun into my trunk with my back turned.

it is a sketchy area there's no disputing it and that's why i don't shop there.

but if i could order one of these without dealing with downtown traffic/parking/sketchiness i'd do it

[qwert]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

qwert,

* 3rd world people looking to steal something ???
* unkempt filth looking for an opportunity to steal a gun ???
* send the 3rd world trash on it's way ???

Did you somehow miss that.

And look at post #93, where did madball attack the poster's of the above's character??? He did however request that he shouldn't show up at the store with that attitude....so would I.

I do not defend the language in the post you refer to, and share your distaste and disappointment to regularly see far too much of a similar tone.

Good Luck, YMMV

[madball]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

ok a little over the top and exaggerated, yes. you can't be racist to poor people so it's not racism. but that is the nature of the area. i don't feel like walking to my car and loading a gun into my trunk with my back turned.

it is a sketchy area there's no disputing it and that's why i don't shop there.

but if i could order one of these without dealing with downtown traffic/parking/sketchiness i'd do it

I hear ya brother, we've tried to convince 5.11 to sell us some but they only sell the kilts on their website.

And when he mentions 3rd world people, I assume he's referring to the large asian populations in chinatown, not the homeless.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by madball

I hear ya brother, we've tried to convince 5.11 to sell us some but they only sell the kilts on their website.

which doesn't ship to Canada

[madball]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

which doesn't ship to Canada

Super frustrating I know. Everyone that works here wants one too!

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by madball

Yes, it is our store policy to prepare a bill of sale that includes our information, the firearm information and the buyers information for any firearm purchased. But we never photo copy the license. Only record the name, license number and expiration onto the bill of sale.

Regarding Restricted firearms, those bills of sale are kept in our filing system.

Regarding Non-Restricted firearms, those bills of sale are kept long enough to remove the firearm from our electronic data base and then our copy of the bill of sale is destroyed.

I'm thrilled to read that your store policy has changed. I might have to stop by next time I'm through Edmonton to see your store.