old style cartridges velocity

[catnthehat]

I figured I'd start this thread in support of some of our older csrtridges that are still manufactured.

A few threads back someone made a comment about the 7x57 and the 708.
many people these days consider old military cartridges such as the 7mm, 8mm, and the 6.5X55 to name a few, rather underpowered and inferior to the modern stuff, like the 708, 260, and the 338 Federal.

Well, they ARE, but only in factory loadings!
This is because many of the older military rifles were considered too weak to handle modern SAAMI pressures of our North American cartridges.
Many likely are, but iof you look on the website of canadaTradeex.com
you will see MANY "weak" actioned rifles like '95 and '96 Mausers in factory chamberings of 30'06, etc.
The actions themselves are good, but during wartime many were made more than a little inefficiantlly, for sure!
Once the steel is tested , theay can be sorted out.

Once the cartridges are loaded to their full potential with a manual, it is nothing but amazing at what they can do.

They are accurate, easy to care for , and brass can be had cheap for the most part.

Just a little info for those of us that are not "in the know" about this sort of thing!
Cat

[duffy4]

I have a 7X57 that I have killed a few things with. My wife and kids use it mostly now. Don't know if a .300 savage rates as an "old timer" yet but I killed my first moose with one many years ago and killed my last moose with it (so far) just a couple years ago.

When you look at shooting critters made of hide, bone and muscle, how much speed and power do you really need? If you feel fine about shooting moose with your 7X57 at 200 yards or less, then you don't really need the extra range and power of a 7mm Rem Mag.

Robin in Rocky

[eric2381]

I highly agree with you Cat. The 6.5x55 is a bigger case than a 260. A 7x57 has more room for powder than a 7mm-08. There is no reason that each can't be loaded to higher velocities than it's newer buddy. The 6.5x55 is one of the worlds greatest deer cartridges, IMO. An 8x57 can be loaded to equal a 30-06, plus it is bigger diameter, so it has a bit greater knockdown power. I also think the only reason to get a 450 Marlin is if you don't handload, otherwise the old 45-70 gets the nod. 8mm Mauser factory ammo is terribly downloaded, due to the confusion of the different bore sizes, and older rifles. I worked up a load for a friends 8mm this summer, and I wanted one afterward. The rifle should be here in a week. Eric

[rottie]

A lot of these older cartridges are forfotten gems,I have been using old Voere in 7 *57 with Hornady 139 grain bullets for years. I cant think of a better combo,light recoil,accurate and harvests game as far as I can shoot(350-400yards)
Good post Cat

[catnthehat]

This doe was taken a few years back with an aging 8X56 mannlicher
in an original mannlicher Schoenauer carbine, one of the slickest actions ever made.
The cartridge is a slow one, maxing a 180 bullet about 2,400FPS.
The doe was hit at 90 paces , and the Pro Hunter 180 went in quartering in front of the last rib, coming to rest on the underside of the right shoulder.
Total weight loss was les than 10 grains, expansion was about .50 !
Cat

[Matt L.]

Are there any rifles chambred for 7x57 anymore? I can't seem to find any.

[SakoAlberta]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

Are there any rifles chambred for 7x57 anymore? I can't seem to find any.

Ruger #1

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

"I figured I'd start this thread in support of some of our older cartridges that are still manufactured . . .

. . . many of the older military rifles were considered too weak to handle modern SAAMI pressures of our North American cartridges . . .
.

Hey Cat, my kind of thread . . . Thanks for posting it up!

For those that are not familiar with 'SAAMI' (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute), herez a link to bring you up to speed;

- http://www.saami.org/

Cheers

[Grizzly Adams]

some of these oldtimers have been around for over 100 years, believe it, or not and are still going strong. I wonder how many of the new "super" cartridges will get to last that long.
Grizz

Perhaps my .444 Marlin does't fit into the old cartridges category, but at 2330 fps and 265gr lead at 163 yds, well then maybe so. Here's my Nov. 11th little bull. This pic's been around a couple of times.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

Are there any rifles chambred for 7x57 anymore? I can't seem to find any.

Ruger, CZ, Fair, Sako ( I think), and a few others.
Winchester and Remington used to.....
Cat

[Whiskey Wish]

Good post, good point.
To illustrate; My pa hunted his entire life with a .303 British. He had the money and knowledge to chose any caliber he wanted and, while he did pick up a Win. Model 70 .243 in 1967 for varmints and fun, he said he never found any other caliber that made him feel he needed to change. He built a hunting lodge in 1959 and I spent most of my life growing up there. I could not begin to count the numbers, types and calibers of rifles that made their way through that old lodge over the years and none of them ever hung more meat than the Old Mans Parker Hale conversion.

To the hand loaders out there, look up the BC for a 150 gr bullet in .303 British. As Pa used to say: It may not win the Indy 500 but I sure as hell aint gonna stand out there with a catchers mitt at 500 yards.

[Jason Balesdent]

As I've mentioned in other posts before, my go to rifle is a Rem. 700 in 6.5X55 Swede. Since this is a new rifle it can be loaded hot enough to blow cases long before I hurt the rifle, however I don't go that far. My most accurate load for deer launches a 140 gr at around 2400 FPS. Now I haven't proved it but, according to most charts this cartridge will catch up to and outrun a 180gr 30cal round at about the 5-600 yd mark, has light recoil, cheap to reload and penetrates like it has a power drill attached to the tip. Whats not to like?

[Echo-Gecko]

I shoot a 7x57 and loaded hot mine shoots very close to a 270 win.
Killed some animals with it and none of them knew any diffrence between the 7x57 and a 7mm mag

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

"some of these oldtimers have been around for over 100 years, believe it, or not and are still going strong . . . "
.

Of all the 'old-timer' cartridges out there (100+ yrs old), the "Most Popular" award (by a long-shot ), would have to go to; Ye Ol' .30-06 Springfield.

It's kind of interesting ... because of it's huge modern-day popularity, you don't think of the .30-06 as being 'old', but as of this year it's 102 years old!

[duffy4]

Yes the 30/06 is a great round. The US gov't saw how their army got its butt kicked by the 7X57 mm and so they decided to build a similar cartridge only BIGGER (like Americans often do).

Robin in Rocky

[MK2750]

Great information here. I would never guessed the 7x57 could be loaded to that performance. There must be concern as to the strenghts of some of these older actions. How do you know which actions you dare push?

I have a custom sporter in 7x57. I have been a little worried about knock down power as compared to the 30-06 I'm using.

It is built on Springfield action (I think) serial # 922XXX. I looked around the web a bit and believe it was manufactured in Oct/Nov 1942. Sako barrel with only a couple boxes fired.

What do you guys think of this combo for going beyond factory loads?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Great information here. I would never guessed the 7x57 could be loaded to that performance. There must be concern as to the strenghts of some of these older actions. How do you know which actions you dare push?

I have a custom sporter in 7x57. I have been a little worried about knock down power as compared to the 30-06 I'm using.

It is built on Springfield action (I think) serial # 922XXX. I looked around the web a bit and believe it was manufactured in Oct/Nov 1942. Sako barrel with only a couple boxes fired.

What do you guys think of this combo for going beyond factory loads?

I wouldn't push that Springfield too hard, but then, you don't really have to!
You can get a 150 grain bullet going about 2750, which is not too shabby, but still well within safe pressures of that action.
Some of the Springfields had questionable hardness qualities in their actions, that is why I mentioned it.....
Cat

[ruger338]

Ive hunted with my grand pa's old 45-70 gov for 20 yrs
and taken many animals with the same box of shells
oldies are definatly goodies

[catnthehat]

I may have posted this one before, head shot on a Spruce grouse with an original .577 Snider!
Cat