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View Poll Results: If you were limited to one of the following calibers for all your hunting, which would you choose?
.308 Winchester 17 11.18%
.270 Winchester 54 35.53%
.30-06 Springfield 81 53.29%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 11-21-2008, 04:19 PM
twilson_99 twilson_99 is offline
 
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Get something to start shooting, you can always get another gun, and another, and another. I started out hunting with an old BSA 243 that I got from my uncle. It served me well and then in a few years I got a Browning 300 win mag, so then the 243 became my coyote gun. And now I have a locker with quite a few different guns. The biggest thing is to just get out and shoot and be comfortable with what you got.
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  #32  
Old 11-21-2008, 05:10 PM
378 Wthrby 378 Wthrby is offline
 
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X2 Okotokian,
I haven't needed a stubby WSM and the added expense with my... how did U put it "Vanilla" 270. LOL
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  #33  
Old 11-21-2008, 06:27 PM
Vindalbakken Vindalbakken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
Here's my inexperienced take on it... in what realm is a.270 WSM "much superior" to a vanilla .270? At 100 yards on a deer? doubtful. At 400 yards? Perhaps, but that shot takes it out of the realm of "starter" for a newbie (and I suspect out of the realm of most hunters). And given that the dictum here seems to be "practice, practice, practice, and then practice some more", an additional $10 a box can add up. I'm just sayin'
Aye, there's the rub.
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  #34  
Old 11-25-2008, 11:07 PM
Brad09 Brad09 is offline
 
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See, and that extra $10 a box is one of the reasons I never looked at the .270 WSM. Once I buy a gun, I'd like to put at least 500 rounds through it before I even consider taking it hunting. I want to shoot from different positions, at different ranges, with different lighting, crosswinds, and conditions, so that I know exactly how that bullet is going to behave when I take down a deer. My understanding is that the occasional animal is going to be able to run after being hit no matter what, but my inexperienced opinion is that if it is running away, bleeding and in pain, that is a disservice to hunting in general, because anyone that may come upon that animal(hikers, birdwatchers, etc) before you recover it is going to have an immediate negative opinion of hunting. Therefore, I'd like to avoid this as much as possible(also, the idea of tracking a wounded deer for any number of miles is certainly something I'd like to spare myself from). So I definitely hear you guys beating the practice drum, and I think you're absolutely right.

So, by my math:

20 rounds to a box = 25 boxes for 500 rounds(my minimum test-fire round count)
$20 a box(for cheap stuff, not even necessarily what I'll shoot; depends what the gun likes) x 25 boxes = $500.

For an initial start, this sounds pretty reasonable. Please check out my new thread, Ammuntion 101, and offer your opinions.

Thanks to everyone that posted. Please consider this thread closed.
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  #35  
Old 11-27-2008, 01:39 PM
EagleEye54 EagleEye54 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad09 View Post
Once I buy a gun, I'd like to put at least 500 rounds through it before I even consider taking it hunting. I want to shoot from different positions, at different ranges, with different lighting, crosswinds, and conditions, so that I know exactly how that bullet is going to behave when I take down a deer.
Great in theory but it practice, it doesn't happen. Most hunters would never even put 500 rounds through a hunting rifle in their lifetime let alone before going hunting for the first time. Far too expensive and time consuming to do that. Some "hunters" have never even confirmed their scopes' zero point at a shooting range after getting a new scope installed. Based on the number of tresspassers coming onto the property I hunt, some don't even bother to get permission to hunt, let alone practice good ethical shooting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad09 View Post
My understanding is that the occasional animal is going to be able to run after being hit no matter what, but my inexperienced opinion is that if it is running away, bleeding and in pain, that is a disservice to hunting in general, because anyone that may come upon that animal(hikers, birdwatchers, etc) before you recover it is going to have an immediate negative opinion of hunting.
Actually, deer almost always run after being shot, no matter where the bullet hits. They are usually dead on their feet but until they loose consciousness, they run. "Bang flops" are not as common as some would have you believe. The exception to this is usually the result of the animal being hit in the nervous system somewhere. We call this being "spined".

By the way Brad, if you really are so concerned about the animals welfare as you say you are, then I respectfully suggest you not go big game hunting. The first time you shoot a deer and dress it out, you may puke your guts out. It isn't a pretty sight and smell is something else again.
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  #36  
Old 11-27-2008, 02:25 PM
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Copidosoma Copidosoma is offline
 
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Originally Posted by EagleEye54 View Post
By the way Brad, if you really are so concerned about the animals welfare as you say you are, then I respectfully suggest you not go big game hunting. The first time you shoot a deer and dress it out, you may puke your guts out. It isn't a pretty sight and smell is something else again.
I see no reason why someone who has an interest in a clean quick kill should be discouraged from pursuing hunting. Sure, alot of people think that if you need to go back out the next day to find the animal you shot it is just fine. Not all of us do though.

Nothing wrong with the inside of a deer either. Especially if you don't bother to take a Texas heart shot or gut shot. Shouldn't be doing that anyways in my opinion. I'll bet that the first time most people saw the insides of a large animal they didn't feel too well.

Granted, it is probably a good thing to have some experienced help if for no other reason than to know which bits to not cut.

Good luck Brad.
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  #37  
Old 11-27-2008, 03:42 PM
EagleEye54 EagleEye54 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Copidosoma View Post
I see no reason why someone who has an interest in a clean quick kill should be discouraged from pursuing hunting.
There is no way I would discourage hunting or not to be ethical when hunting...that was not my meaning at all. I was simply pointing out there are harsh realities beyond the idealist viewpoint. I encourage anyone that hunts to do their level best to make a clean kill...I believe it is our moral obligation to do so.

And while you are at it, please do not offend the hikers, bird watchers and tree huggers.
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  #38  
Old 11-27-2008, 05:14 PM
twofifty twofifty is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad09 View Post
.... Once I buy a gun, I'd like to put at least 500 rounds through it before I even consider taking it hunting. I want to shoot from different positions, at different ranges, with different lighting, crosswinds, and conditions, so that I know exactly how that bullet is going to behave when I take down a deer. ...... So I definitely hear you guys beating the practice drum, and I think you're absolutely right.

Please consider this thread closed.
Hold on there Brad, not so fast. lol.

I would like to commend your attitude wrt becoming proficient with your hunting rifle.

You might consider purchasing a 2nd rifle for practice, a rimfire in .22LR caliber, whose action is similar to that of your big game hunting rifle. This is advice that I took to heart a couple years ago, and I found that the benefits carried over to my high power rifle.

Brad, you don't need to fire 500 rounds of high power at $1.25 to $3.50 apiece to learn how to repeatedly go through the same correct process/motions that lead to good field marksmanship. $20 will buy you 500 rounds of .22LR, $100 will buy you 2,500 training shots that if taken in a willful protracted way, should make you a proficient shooter of most any rifle/caliber combination.

If you want to get this .22LR practice done in the company of nice folk who really know marksmanship and will share their knowledge and techniques, consider joining one of Alberta's many smallbore Metallic Silhouette Rifle clubs. These folk use .22LR bolt action rifles to consistently hit tiny metallic animal cutouts at ranges that vary from 40 to 100 meters. With their high power rifles, the same folk hit bigger animal cutouts from 200 to 500 meters out....offhand.
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  #39  
Old 11-27-2008, 05:39 PM
twofifty twofifty is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Copidosoma View Post
....Nothing wrong with the inside of a deer either. Especially if you don't bother to take a Texas heart shot or gut shot. Shouldn't be doing that anyways in my opinion. I'll bet that the first time most people saw the insides of a large animal they didn't feel too well.

Granted, it is probably a good thing to have some experienced help if for no other reason than to know which bits to not cut.

Good luck Brad.
Sure enough, 'cept for the part about not feeling too well - at least if the animal was not gut shot - and its heart kept beating long enough to somewhat drain the body out through the wound channel.

It helps to wear rubber dishwashing gloves because you will need to get your hands in there, to push aside organs with one hand as the other wields a knife and cuts the support structures. Keeping all the bits connected to each other prevents a big bloody/gucky mess. The gloves cut down on the 'yuk' factor, and they prevent your hand from slipping off the knife handle.

The organ layout on deer is the same as in most other mammals - big and small - including humans. So if you check out a human anatomy text in advance, you will be able to figure out what is what. Take your time, proceed logically, think your way through the job, marvel at the beauty that lies within, and your experience will be a positive one. If you refrain from puncturing the lower organs, there is nothing much more than a 'warm' smell in the air - nothing objectionable.

Now, if your bullet damaged the organs that lay behind the diaphragm (gut shot), or if you puncture those with your knife, the olfactory experience is at another level of magnitude.

Good to have some water with you, in a cycling bottle so you can squirt it under pressure should you need to clean guck off what you want to keep. A small well-honed knife is easier to manoever in tight quarters than a big long knife. You'll need a small saw to cut through the front of the pelvic girdle, so that you can crack the pelvis front apart and free the rectum and anus without cutting into them.

There are other things to consider, and tools some bring along, that ease the job. Perhaps others with more experience can jump in with advice on what works and what does not when it comes to field dressing.
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  #40  
Old 11-27-2008, 07:39 PM
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Selkirk Selkirk is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad09 View Post

" . . . Please consider this thread closed."
.
Brad ... It looks like this thread of yours has taken on a life of it's own. Your attempt to close it down (^) has only resulted in an ineffective minor 'wound-shot' ... it's still very much alive and running!

If you decide to try to close it down again, next time I would suggest you 'place' a 140 gr .270 bullet directly in the heart.
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  #41  
Old 11-27-2008, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
Here's my inexperienced take on it... in what realm is a.270 WSM "much superior" to a vanilla .270? At 100 yards on a deer? doubtful. At 400 yards? Perhaps, but that shot takes it out of the realm of "starter" for a newbie (and I suspect out of the realm of most hunters). And given that the dictum here seems to be "practice, practice, practice, and then practice some more", an additional $10 a box can add up. I'm just sayin'
The 270WSM is about 200 feet per second faster generally, than the standard .270 win. , that is where the "superior cartridge" comes from.
But the 270 is "better than a bunch more, and the 270 WSM is inferior to a bunch more!
They are all good cartridges, but some are a bit different than others.....
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  #42  
Old 11-27-2008, 08:03 PM
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huntinstuff huntinstuff is offline
 
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Brad, here is some secret knowledge I have that may help you:

About 35 minutes after God created the 30-30, he created the 30-06.



Seriously, pick the one that fits you the best and you shoot well. All 3 calibres will do any animal justice.

Oh, and take those guys up on their offers to let you shoot their rifles. That's one of the best ways to get it figured out.
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  #43  
Old 11-28-2008, 12:06 PM
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Copidosoma Copidosoma is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriggerFinger View Post


Brad ... It looks like this thread of yours has taken on a life of it's own. Your attempt to close it down (^) has only resulted in an ineffective minor 'wound-shot' ... it's still very much alive and running!

If you decide to try to close it down again, next time I would suggest you 'place' a 140 gr .270 bullet directly in the heart.
Zombie thread...
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  #44  
Old 12-01-2008, 12:33 PM
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The DragonSlayer The DragonSlayer is offline
 
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Default It's Easy

Pick the Rifle FIRST. How does it feel on your shoulder? Does it have the features you want (ie: adjustable trigger, removable magazine, ease of scope mounting, etc).
Pick the caliber SECOND!!! All three that you have mentioned are good, AND there are more!
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  #45  
Old 12-01-2008, 11:36 PM
Brad09 Brad09 is offline
 
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This thread, after having taken on a life of it's own(damn zombie threads), has actually become quite interesting. For EagleEye, who is looking out for my welfare when I cut into that first deer for gutting, I'll just let you know that I actually used to work in a cattle slaughterhouse, and have been chin-deep in blood and bile and all kinds of wonderful things. But I do appreciate the heads-up.

Also, having been doing some shooting with hand-loaded .308 rounds and a Remington 700 SPS that a friend of mine owns, I've worked my way up to just 200 rounds. Admittedly, these have all been fired from the bench, at short distances, but I'm definitely learning. I'm learning the basics of handloading(which I find interesting), although I haven't actually done any of it yet, and I've gained a lot of shooting experience. I feel great about my shooting to this point, although I'm only out to about 55-75 yards. I've also done some shooting with a .270 and a .30-06, but for some reason, I find myself coming back to that .308, perhaps simply because I'm more familiar with it, and it's easier for me to get out to fire it.

Now I guess there's no sense in me trying to close this thread again, so let me announce the grand re-opening, and let's just keep it clean, boys and girls.

Brad
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  #46  
Old 12-02-2008, 12:21 AM
Vindalbakken Vindalbakken is offline
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Is there a door prize?
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  #47  
Old 12-03-2008, 01:44 PM
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Brad,
The advise to buy a 22 and use that for some much needed (not just for you but all of us) practice is great. I had developed a fairly bad flinch and found I was jerking the trigger of my .270 which was resulting in some bad shooting. After doing some reading I did 2 things
1. Put a Sims limbsaver recoil pad on my .270
2. bought a 22 that I could shoot lots!

The 22 reminded me why I loved to shoot and allowed me to go through a lot of rounds for cheap and re-develop some good shooting habits. Now with the recoil pad I really enjoy shooting my .270, although I usually do not shoot more than 15 rounds per session to the range, but I have developed confidence in my shooting again!!
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