A legal question about air pistols

[teberle]

I picked up a Crosman 1322 air pistol this summer for use on grouse while elk hunting. This seemed like a good option for opportunistic grouse hunting without blasting centerfire rounds in elk country. It shoots at 460 fps, so it is not legally a "firearm" under the criminal code, as I understand it. My question is, do laws against carrying concealed weapons apply to such a device? I've read some of the case law regarding concealed weapons in Canada and some of the legal realities surrounding the issue are not what you'd expect. Can I carry this thing inside my hunting pack, or does it have to be visible on the outside? And particularly, can I put it in my bag when carrying it from the house to the car in Calgary? I don't like the idea of openly carrying something that looks from a distance like a handgun, but is concealing it illegal? Interested in opinions, and also if anyone could direct me to the relevant legislation that would be great.

[58thecat]

hmmm good question as I have mine with me always when out in the bush cuz ya never know when a spruce grouse hops up on a limb....I don't keep it out in the open but in a case or a back pack.

Air guns that meet the Criminal Code definition of a firearm, but are deemed not to be firearms for certain purposes of the Firearms Act and Criminal Code
These are air guns with a maximum muzzle velocity of 152.4 metres or 500 feet per second and/or a maximum muzzle energy of 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds. Such air guns are exempt from licensing, registration, and other requirements under the Firearms Act, and from penalties set out in the Criminal Code for possessing a firearm without a valid licence or registration certificate.
However, they are considered to be firearms under the Criminal Code if they are used to commit a crime. Anyone who uses such an air gun to commit a crime faces the same penalties as someone who uses a regular firearm.
The simple possession, acquisition and use of these air guns for lawful purposes are regulated more by provincial and municipal laws and by-laws than by federal law. For example, some provinces may have set a minimum age for acquiring such an air gun. For more information, please contact your local or provincial authorities.
These air guns are exempt from the specific safe storage, transportation and handling requirements set out in the regulations supporting the Firearms Act. However, the Criminal Code requires that you take reasonable precautions to use, carry, handle, store, transport and ship them in a safe and secure manner.

https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firear...types-firearms

[Big Red 250]

I've always believed their not classed as a "firearm" or a "weapon" but as a "toy". I carry mine concealed most of the time, except when I'm aiming it to shoot a bush chicken. Mine is also the Crosman 1322.

[Pioneer2]

Can be made to increase fps and set below the 500fps threshold. Flat top piston,steel breach,plugged bleed valve and or longer barrel. A chronograph is a must.C02 guns work best carried under a coat to keep it warm in cold weather.Pumpers don't care about the weather.Shot many grouse with mine.Custom Crosman 2289 and 2240.

[teberle]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

hmmm good question as I have mine with me always when out in the bush cuz ya never know when a spruce grouse hops up on a limb....I don't keep it out in the open but in a case or a back pack.

Air guns that meet the Criminal Code definition of a firearm, but are deemed not to be firearms for certain purposes of the Firearms Act and Criminal Code
These are air guns with a maximum muzzle velocity of 152.4 metres or 500 feet per second and/or a maximum muzzle energy of 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds. Such air guns are exempt from licensing, registration, and other requirements under the Firearms Act, and from penalties set out in the Criminal Code for possessing a firearm without a valid licence or registration certificate.
However, they are considered to be firearms under the Criminal Code if they are used to commit a crime. Anyone who uses such an air gun to commit a crime faces the same penalties as someone who uses a regular firearm.
The simple possession, acquisition and use of these air guns for lawful purposes are regulated more by provincial and municipal laws and by-laws than by federal law. For example, some provinces may have set a minimum age for acquiring such an air gun. For more information, please contact your local or provincial authorities.
These air guns are exempt from the specific safe storage, transportation and handling requirements set out in the regulations supporting the Firearms Act. However, the Criminal Code requires that you take reasonable precautions to use, carry, handle, store, transport and ship them in a safe and secure manner.

https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firear...types-firearms

Thanks for that. Also relevant, in the Criminal Code I found this:

weapon means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use

(a) in causing death or injury to any person, or

(b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person

and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a firearm and, for the purposes of sections 88, 267 and 272, any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use in binding or tying up a person against their will; (arme)

My understanding is that, for example, you can carry a knife concealed in your bag, but if the intent is to use the knife in a crime, it is considered a concealed weapon, and that the same would be true of the Crosman. Does that make sense to anyone but me?

[antmai]

To muddy the water, is in a backpack carrying a concealed anything? It is more transportation to me.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by teberle

Thanks for that. Also relevant, in the Criminal Code I found this:

weapon means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use

(a) in causing death or injury to any person, or

(b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person

and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a firearm and, for the purposes of sections 88, 267 and 272, any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use in binding or tying up a person against their will; (arme)

My understanding is that, for example, you can carry a knife concealed in your bag, but if the intent is to use the knife in a crime, it is considered a concealed weapon, and that the same would be true of the Crosman. Does that make sense to anyone but me?

yes the minute you use the little airgun or knife in a crime things bump up at bit more....either way you are good to go to pack your grouse pistol...enjoy the hunt.

[Ronan_357]

Carrying a pellet pistol in your bag from your house to your vehicle is not concealed, otherwise every firearm carried in a bag or case would also be concealed.

Seeing as in alberta one can carry and use an air pistol to hunt small game legally I image carrying said pellet pistol either in a holster or in a back pack would be fine while hunting, walking around for day to day errands not so much.

[huntinstuff]

Zero issues

Pack it loaded on your quad if you like

Carry it in a holster

Put it in your pack

Same as a hockey stick

It is not a firearm. Period

[Flight01]

You are good to go. My Crossman pumper 22 has taken many grouse

[whiskeywillow]

Alberta Regs state something along the lines of air pistols being popular for small game, and are an exemption to handgun hunting restrictions. I didn't realize that til I read it in this years Regulation book. I think it's a great thing, and plan to bring mine along knowing now that a guy can do that.

Would love to see centerfire handguns be written in for use someday too

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Zero issues

Pack it loaded on your quad if you like

Carry it in a holster

Put it in your pack

Same as a hockey stick

It is not a firearm. Period

Again, you are correct until you use it in the commission of a crime...then it most definitely is treated as a firearm.
Just to be clear.

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Again, you are correct until you use it in the commission of a crime...then it most definitely is treated as a firearm.
Just to be clear.

Yup
I just didnt go there because i didnt think he cared. Lol

[teberle]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Got the thing sighted in today. Did anyone else run out of elevation adjustment at maximum pumps?

[Pioneer2]

To toss is the plastic breach for a steel one with metal target sights.Leggo for big kids/adults.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by teberle

Thanks for the replies everyone. Got the thing sighted in today. Did anyone else run out of elevation adjustment at maximum pumps?

Nope 10 yards spot on....no issues.