Draws

[DJS]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

999 was not an option when applying for the draws in 2018, and it isn't an option now.

Right from the 2018 draw booklet.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding this right or not. Are you saying that 999 is not an option in the current draws? Because I did all my draws this morning and used 999 for multiple draws.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

I thought the number of animals drawn were based on the populations in the zone? If that is the case, then weaning out the people that have no intention on purchasing the tag wouldn't make a difference. All it would do is make hunters pay more and the people that have no intention on drawing pay nothing. Draw frequency would remain unchanged.

If the biologists actually knew the number of animals in each wmu, every year, you would be correct. If 25% of the people drawing don't hunt, then replacing that 25% of people with actual hunters, would increase the harvest, and decrease the number of animals in the wmu, so the biologists would reduce the number of tags in that wmu, and less people would get drawn. The end result, would be that the wait would not be any shorter. But since the biologists have no way of knowing the actual numbers of each species in each wmu, getting rid of the people that don't purchase the tags will result in more actual hunters being drawn for a while. Some people will argue that the harvest reports will help to estimate game populations, but since not all hunters are required to submit harvest reports, they aren't an accurate tool to use in estimating game populations. As well, they don't take poachers, winterkill or disease into account, so the biologists will never know how many of each species actually reside in each wmu.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by DJS

I'm not sure if I'm understanding this right or not. Are you saying that 999 is not an option in the current draws? Because I did all my draws this morning and used 999 for multiple draws.

That is strange, because I just used the system , and I used the "priority only" option, which replaced the 999 option in 2018.

[slopeshunter]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

That is strange, because I just used the system , and I used the "priority only" option, which replaced the 999 option in 2018.

I haven’t done this year yet but do recall the ‘priority only’ from last year.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by slopeshunter

I haven’t done this year yet but do recall the ‘priority only’ from last year.

The "priority only" option is still there, there is no 999 option.

[bucksman]

Originally Posted by DJS

I'm not sure if I'm understanding this right or not. Are you saying that 999 is not an option in the current draws? Because I did all my draws this morning and used 999 for multiple draws.

you cant use the numbers 999 around here apparently, 999 is the draw code for "priority only" and it doesn't actually say 999 when you enter it but it is the number code they use to determine who applies for priority only. I already posted the 2018 draw summary where it clearly shows they use the draw code 999 for priority only draws but thats not the same apparently...

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If the biologists actually knew the number of animals in each wmu, every year, you would be correct. If 25% of the people drawing don't hunt, then replacing that 25% of people with actual hunters, would increase the harvest, and decrease the number of animals in the wmu, so the biologists would reduce the number of tags in that wmu, and less people would get drawn. The end result, would be that the wait would not be any shorter. But since the biologists have no way of knowing the actual numbers of each species in each wmu, getting rid of the people that don't purchase the tags will result in more actual hunters being drawn for a while. Some people will argue that the harvest reports will help to estimate game populations, but since not all hunters are required to submit harvest reports, they aren't an accurate tool to use in estimating game populations. As well, they don't take poachers, winterkill or disease into account, so the biologists will never know how many of each species actually reside in each wmu.

Well at least someone gets it! Yet there's some on here that think they need to be drawn every other year and others are getting in their way from doing this, so let's up the cost of tags and up the cost to apply so they can fulfill their dreams.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If the biologists actually knew the number of animals in each wmu, every year, you would be correct. If 25% of the people drawing don't hunt, then replacing that 25% of people with actual hunters, would increase the harvest, and decrease the number of animals in the wmu, so the biologists would reduce the number of tags in that wmu, and less people would get drawn. The end result, would be that the wait would not be any shorter. But since the biologists have no way of knowing the actual numbers of each species in each wmu, getting rid of the people that don't purchase the tags will result in more actual hunters being drawn for a while. Some people will argue that the harvest reports will help to estimate game populations, but since not all hunters are required to submit harvest reports, they aren't an accurate tool to use in estimating game populations. As well, they don't take poachers, winterkill or disease into account, so the biologists will never know how many of each species actually reside in each wmu.

So what are the current quotas based on then? Must somehow take into account an estimate on animal numbers and estimate on amount of animals harvested in the prior year. I have a feeling mandatory reporting will be coming very soon.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Well at least someone gets it! Yet there's some on here that think they need to be drawn every other year and others are getting in their way from doing this, so let's up the cost of tags and up the cost to apply so they can fulfill their dreams.

Yes and let’s increase the price so those pesky youth don’t use any tags ether! Of course I am just joking but I agree increasing prices doesn’t help other than to satisfy the greed factor.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

So what are the current quotas based on then? Must somehow take into account an estimate on animal numbers and estimate on amount of animals harvested in the prior year. I have a feeling mandatory reporting will be coming very soon.

Mandatory harvest reports are being implemented, but they don't account for unregulated hunting or poaching, so they don't mean a lot. As for what the quotas are based on, they do very limited aerial surveys, but after seeing huge numbers of tags given out after severe winter kills in some areas, they obviously have no clue about the game populations in some areas.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Yes and let’s increase the price so those pesky youth don’t use any tags ether! Of course I am just joking but I agree increasing prices doesn’t help other than to satisfy the greed factor.

The increasing prices are DUE to the Greed Factor. They wont infringe on the young ones either because Jr. can always partner on Mom's, Grandpas or Dad's tag (s)... as it should be - until they are 16 yrs old.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Salavee

The increasing prices are DUE to the Greed Factor. They wont infringe on the young ones either because Jr. can always partner on Mom's, Grandpas or Dad's tag (s)... as it should be - until they are 16 yrs old.

The regulations allow youths to have their own tags, so why shouldn't they have their own tags?

[honda610]

Why shouldn't youth have a chance at a draw tag?. Dont like kids taking your priority? The childish me me me on this sight is brutal! Youth are the future of hunting suppose you would rather them stay home and play video games....or break in to your truck!

[RZR]

It's the all about me nowadays there is a lot of that on this forum. The youth should have more opportunities for some of the hard to draw tags. It's great watching the youngsters getting excited about hunting. There's the stock, the setup, the shot and hopefully the cleanup.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by honda610

Why shouldn't youth have a chance at a draw tag?. Dont like kids taking your priority? The childish me me me on this sight is brutal! Youth are the future of hunting suppose you would rather them stay home and play video games....or break in to your truck!

If you want your kids to get a draw then spend the money and entered them
If your too cheap to enter them. Then you can take your kids with you on a partner tag for a draw that you get.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

If you want your kids to get a draw then spend the money and entered them
If your too cheap to enter them. Then you can take your kids with you on a partner tag for a draw that you get.

And that is another reason that group draws make sense, it doesn't cost a fortune for your children to draw tags with you.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And that is another reason that group draws make sense, it doesn't cost a fortune for your children to draw tags with you.

Oh for sure
A youth partner tag is what $5 though?
On the one hand, if you kids are pulling there tags a couple years earlier, on there own. Wouldn’t that be better?

Some guys on here are right. There is tons of me me me on here.
I’m of the opinion that If we all pay a little more money. Everyone would be pulling their draws sooner
Just my point of view

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Oh for sure
A youth partner tag is what $5 though?
On the one hand, if you kids are pulling there tags a couple years earlier, on there own. Wouldn’t that be better?

Some guys on here are right. There is tons of me me me on here.
I’m of the opinion that If we all pay a little more money. Everyone would be pulling their draws sooner
Just my point of view

If you pay more money you will not draw sooner. Maybe for a year or two but then the number of tags would be reduced in a season because people are having more success. All it does is price out people who cannot afford to spend money yearly on draws which maybe would be your intention. In the end, all that would result is an increase to the price to hunt and that's it. If you have all the money to spend go through an outfitter or travel to another area that draws on lower priorities.

[honda610]

The simple fact is charging more will not fix the issue. Reducing native harvest, limit out of province tags and abusers, reducing outfitter allocations will do more than raising draws to 1000 dollars a draw. You people must have voted liberal ! We have a problem let's tax it let's make it cost more. What a bunch of idiots. If your to cheap comments show your I have money I want to hunt it all attitude. The money raised will not go back into conservation. The problem can be fixed without charging a fortune. Apparently thinking outside the normal of let's make things cost more is to hard for some people. And why do so many have a issue with kids having draw opportunity!!!?
Your kid can draw on yours....so my 12 year old uses my tag. It's another 4 years for another one of my kids to hunt a moose then again and again....so your saying you shouldn't hunt on a draw till your 18? What the hell is your problem! I guess your Dad never took you in the bush so others shouldn't be able either. You ever see the look on a kid who harvested there first moose or mule buck? Or any animal for that matter! Its awsome.
I cant believe people want kids limited in draws so they can personally have more what a bunch of @$$ holes.
Draws can be fixed without charging a fortune it's been explained repeatedly if you guys cant comprehend this then I guess hunting as a future outdoor lifestyle I'd doomed

[ghostguy6]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

So your opposed to spending $20 per draw application in order to potentially reduce your waiting time by a couple years?

I'm apposed to giving the government any more money than I absolutely have too. They already steal enough from me. Lets face it, if we spent any extra money on conservation it would be mismanaged to the point that it would probably hurt conservation even more. It would probably end up going to preserve wildlife so it could only be hunted by the "stewards".

[Sledhead71]

Interesting read through this thread...

We don't need to increase the application fee, these fees go to the provider of the service.

We should limit the number of draws to 3 - 5, this would allow us to prioritize the species we actually want to hunt and would take some pressure off the system.

Charge credit card when drawn, may eliminate a few who never intended on purchasing the permit.

Proof of residency when applying.

Youth have opportunities just like the rest of us, new sportsmen and women are not just youths.

All the best to those applying in 2019.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

That is strange, because I just used the system , and I used the "priority only" option, which replaced the 999 option in 2018.

You are correct! I had to go back into Alberta Relm and look. Priority Only is the option to choose. I didn't even notice that yesterday.

As others have pointed out though, the 999 code is still there when you look at the 2018 draw summaries. Not sure why the different coding...Priority Only vs 999 is necessary.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by honda610

The simple fact is charging more will not fix the issue. Reducing native harvest, limit out of province tags and abusers, reducing outfitter allocations will do more than raising draws to 1000 dollars a draw. You people must have voted liberal ! We have a problem let's tax it let's make it cost more. What a bunch of idiots. If your to cheap comments show your I have money I want to hunt it all attitude. The money raised will not go back into conservation. The problem can be fixed without charging a fortune. Apparently thinking outside the normal of let's make things cost more is to hard for some people. And why do so many have a issue with kids having draw opportunity!!!?
Your kid can draw on yours....so my 12 year old uses my tag. It's another 4 years for another one of my kids to hunt a moose then again and again....so your saying you shouldn't hunt on a draw till your 18? What the hell is your problem! I guess your Dad never took you in the bush so others shouldn't be able either. You ever see the look on a kid who harvested there first moose or mule buck? Or any animal for that matter! Its awsome.
I cant believe people want kids limited in draws so they can personally have more what a bunch of @$$ holes.
Draws can be fixed without charging a fortune it's been explained repeatedly if you guys cant comprehend this then I guess hunting as a future outdoor lifestyle I'd doomed

The only one who would be limiting anything would be you
You could enter them in as many draws as you wanna pay for
Just like now
You put such a value on the experience but you think it should be done for essentially nothing. You get what you pay for. Believe me I pay way more money to the government than you do. This has nothing to do with being a “tax”. But it’s hard to get the message across to someone who only thinks and cares about their own problems. In the long run it’s going to be your kids that suffer from your decisions. Me me me me....

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

The only one who would be limiting anything would be you
You could enter them in as many draws as you wanna pay for
Just like now
You put such a value on the experience but you think it should be done for essentially nothing. You get what you pay for. Believe me I pay way more money to the government than you do. This has nothing to do with being a “tax”. But it’s hard to get the message across to someone who only thinks and cares about their own problems. In the long run it’s going to be your kids that suffer from your decisions. Me me me me....

Why are our kids going to suffer if we don't have to pay more for draws? And how is that me me me? The idea to pay more so you can hunt more is me me me. Giving everyone equal opportunity is not a me first attitude so I am not sure how you are drawing that conclusion.
As stated a few times, you will not draw any quicker as the quota will be reduced if more people are successful which in the end will keep the priority the exact same.
Getting people to pay more so they cannot afford to hunt will get you to draw quicker if that is what you are after.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Oh for sure
A youth partner tag is what $5 though?
On the one hand, if you kids are pulling there tags a couple years earlier, on there own. Wouldn’t that be better?

Some guys on here are right. There is tons of me me me on here.
I’m of the opinion that If we all pay a little more money. Everyone would be pulling their draws sooner
Just my point of view

There is no youth partner tag, a youth partner does not get a tag of his own, he gets a youth partner license for $12, that lets him kill the animal, so the tag holder can attach his tag. So essentially, the government just get's an extra $12 for the animal if a partner is selected, than if the tag holder hunts alone to kill the animal. That is cheap if it provides a youth the opportunity to hunt without having to wait to build enough priority to draw his own tag, but why bother for an over the counter tag , when the youth can get their own?

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Why are our kids going to suffer if we don't have to pay more for draws? And how is that me me me? The idea to pay more so you can hunt more is me me me. Giving everyone equal opportunity is not a me first attitude so I am not sure how you are drawing that conclusion.
As stated a few times, you will not draw any quicker as the quota will be reduced if more people are successful which in the end will keep the priority the exact same.
Getting people to pay more so they cannot afford to hunt will get you to draw quicker if that is what you are after.

Changes need to be made to the system because people are able to exploit it at the cost of resident hunters
There is way bigger issues than this that are far more critical
At the end of the day, the way it stands right now. There is less and less tags available and more and more people applying for them. Continuing on the same course, there is no way for anyones hunting opportunities to improve. Changes will eventually have to happen and who knows what they will be. I’ve just been making suggestions on what I think would help most people. Sure some guys don’t want to pay more money. Same guys couple probably buy a couple less cartons of smokes or cases of beer. If the experience that they feel they get from hunting is as important as they say then you would be able to find the couple extra bucks. $100 isn’t barely a round of golf with cart anymore or a box of shells at cabelas.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Changes need to be made to the system because people are able to exploit it at the cost of resident hunters
There is way bigger issues than this that are far more critical
At the end of the day, the way it stands right now. There is less and less tags available and more and more people applying for them. Continuing on the same course, there is no way for anyones hunting opportunities to improve. Changes will eventually have to happen and who knows what they will be. I’ve just been making suggestions on what I think would help most people. Sure some guys don’t want to pay more money. Same guys couple probably buy a couple less cartons of smokes or cases of beer. If the experience that they feel they get from hunting is as important as they say then you would be able to find the couple extra bucks. $100 isn’t barely a round of golf with cart anymore or a box of shells at cabelas.

Breaking this down to the basics, if there are a given amount of animals in a population, then a given amount of animals can die or be harvested to maintain the population. If there is a winterkill or disease, then the harvest has to be reduced to maintain the population. If poachers kill a significant amount of animals, then again, the legal harvest must be reduced, or the population suffers. If unregulated hunters kill more animals, the regulated harvest must be reduced, or the population suffers. And in the end, since the unregulated hunters will not allow themselves to be regulated, and outfitter allocations are not adjusted annually to compensate for population fluctuations, it is the regular hunters that lose opportunity when the population drops. No matter how much you charge in application fees, or for licenses, that won't change the amount of animals that can legally be harvested , without effecting the population. So the only way to increase resident opportunity, is to reduce the opportunity for unregulated hunters and for outfitters, and good luck making that happen.

[honda610]

Markey mark you have made comments Iam cheap you pay more taxes than me that I pay more for smokes than a draw.
Kids should loose opportunity to hunt....
I dont know you or your situation and you definitely dont know me or my situation. I could personally attack you or make assumptions but I wont .So **** off
Alot of people have had positive discussions about how to fix the problem. Yours has been charge more money limit kids etc. Partner liscence you obviously dont understand how they work.
I have brought up several things that would actually effect draw times in a positive way but you are cant see past your own greed and Iam more important opinion.
You have not brought anything to the board other than charge more money. I think your caught up on that for some reason. Awsome approach....several people have explained how that isnt the solution.
Your either a troll or too involved in yourself to effectively communicate with others on a important issue. Keep up the good work advocating for more expensive ways to live and fix problems. Good luck
This is the last time I'll be talking on this matter as Iam taking our scout/cub group camping this weekend.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Breaking this down to the basics, if there are a given amount of animals in a population, then a given amount of animals can die or be harvested to maintain the population. If there is a winterkill or disease, then the harvest has to be reduced to maintain the population. If poachers kill a significant amount of animals, then again, the legal harvest must be reduced, or the population suffers. If unregulated hunters kill more animals, the regulated harvest must be reduced, or the population suffers. And in the end, since the unregulated hunters will not allow themselves to be regulated, and outfitter allocations are not adjusted annually to compensate for population fluctuations, it is the regular hunters that lose opportunity when the population drops. No matter how much you charge in application fees, or for licenses, that won't change the amount of animals that can legally be harvested , without effecting the population. So the only way to increase resident opportunity, is to reduce the opportunity for unregulated hunters and for outfitters, and good luck making that happen.

Oh for sure
I agree with you
But do you think offering draws for as cheap as we do, and being able to put 4 people on a single application help the problem?
I put in a bunch of draws in the states this year and I can say 100% that if the application was $50 I didn’t do it. Or if I had to pay for the tag at the time of application I didn’t apply. Cheaper states, hell ya I applied.

People don’t realize what is happening here
And how close it’s teetering on the edge
With what is going on in bc
With the ndp granting more harvesting rights
With bill c-71
The fight is coming and it’s going to cost a lot more than $20 for a draw application

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Oh for sure
I agree with you
But do you think offering draws for as cheap as we do, and being able to put 4 people on a single application help the problem?
I put in a bunch of draws in the states this year and I can say 100% that if the application was $50 I didn’t do it. Or if I had to pay for the tag at the time of application I didn’t apply. Cheaper states, hell ya I applied.

People don’t realize what is happening here
And how close it’s teetering on the edge
With what is going on in bc
With the ndp granting more harvesting rights
With bill c-71
The fight is coming and it’s going to cost a lot more than $20 for a draw application

Wat is happening now, is that some people are applying that will not hunt, or even purchase the tags. I would like to make it mandatory to purchase the tags if drawn, to get rid of those people, but the bottom line, is that if we get rid of those people, in the short tern, the harvest will go up. When this happens, the tag numbers will be reduced to compensate. In the long term, the wait times to draw won't change, so why make people pay more to apply, when it changes nothing?