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05-18-2019, 07:46 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Lacombe
Posts: 118
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Do cows drive off wildlife?
I farm part of a quarter where 90 acres have never been broke. Hills, ponds, beavers, poplars throughout. Beautiful piece of scenery but not real useful to me outside hunting season.
Cows were pastured there till the 80's and its been idle since.
Sandy, hilly land north of Blackfalds where it "always" rains. If it gets refenced and grazed in the spring-fall will the cows drive the deer and moose away or do they co-exist?
(I'm not a cow guy, just looking to answer landowners questions).
Thanks
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05-18-2019, 08:03 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 838
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Deer and moose will co-exist.
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05-18-2019, 08:03 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 87
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Cows themselves don’t chase the deer away, I think it’s more that the cows are so intense on the underbrush that the deer don’t have the cover they want for bedding down and the forage is grazed down.
So two factors of what deer want are diminished, add the forage back in the deer will feed there and it could be better, but the deer will be more transient only feeding.
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05-18-2019, 08:24 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 19,416
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A place I hunt has cattle as well as lots of horses and the deer and moose don’t seem to particularly wary of their presence.
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"The trouble with people idiot-proofing things, is the resulting evolution of the idiot." Me
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05-18-2019, 09:16 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: central Alberta
Posts: 12,627
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everyone gets along... not my pics.
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This country was started by voyagers whose young lives were swept away by the currents of the rivers for ten cents a day... just for the vanity of the European's beaver hats. ~ Red Bullets
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It is when you walk alone in nature that you discover your strengths and weaknesses. ~ Red Bullets
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05-18-2019, 10:01 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,207
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Grazing will absolutely effect wildlife on the property.
Sure, deer and moose will likely maintain a presence.
Though I wouldn't count on it. Seen it too many times where cattle have temporarily pushed big game to neighboring properties.
Odds are deer and moose use of this land would be much higher if cattle were not allowed to graze here.
Then there is all the small stuff most people ignore.
Birds, rodents and other small ones. Native plants.
Cows will definitely have an effect on the Wildlife. Depending on the grazing intensity and timing, the effect can be devastating. Yet many will not recognize the apocalypse before them, put up a picture of a cow and deer together and imagine that all is heavenly.
^ This should be enough to give your thread some traction.
Having said that, there can be positives to occasional high intensity grazing.
And Fire, and flood and drought. Nature sometimes needs a kick.
I would reflect on what this property means to you, what you want your role as Steward to be.
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05-18-2019, 11:06 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canmore
Posts: 4,740
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"I would reflect on what this property means to you, what you want your role as Steward to be."
x2.
If it's to be a wildlife sanctuary for all wildlife, then cows should not be part of it.
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The world is changed by your action, not by your opinion.
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05-18-2019, 11:49 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Grazing will absolutely effect wildlife on the property.
Sure, deer and moose will likely maintain a presence.
Though I wouldn't count on it. Seen it too many times where cattle have temporarily pushed big game to neighboring properties.
Odds are deer and moose use of this land would be much higher if cattle were not allowed to graze here.
Then there is all the small stuff most people ignore.
Birds, rodents and other small ones. Native plants.
Cows will definitely have an effect on the Wildlife. Depending on the grazing intensity and timing, the effect can be devastating. Yet many will not recognize the apocalypse before them, put up a picture of a cow and deer together and imagine that all is heavenly.
^ This should be enough to give your thread some traction.
Having said that, there can be positives to occasional high intensity grazing.
And Fire, and flood and drought. Nature sometimes needs a kick.
I would reflect on what this property means to you, what you want your role as Steward to be.
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....this. if I have the choice I'll hunt where there's been no livestock every time. You'll find wildlife where there's livestock but there'll be more where there's not
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05-18-2019, 11:51 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: central Alberta
Posts: 12,627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper
"I would reflect on what this property means to you, what you want your role as Steward to be."
x2.
If it's to be a wildlife sanctuary for all wildlife, then cows should not be part of it.
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X2.
Thumper makes a great point. If this land is surrounded by disturbed pasture or farmland disconnected from adjacent natural ecosystems what kind of wildlife sanctuary can that land be?
I will add my 2 cents....
Well said Walking Buffalo. The pics I posted were only to illustrate the grazers can co-exist. In my experience in the parkland area I notice some balances of domestic livestock and wildlife can occur.
If cattle numbers are managed properly most species of wildlife will find their place on the land. Historically, even though there were massive herds of buffalo that seasonally grazed an area the smaller wildlife species still fit in. The prairie dog colonies still grew and red and swift fox, snakes, badgers, birds, etc. all found their places on the bison grazed land. Just the forest dwelling species could not establish themselves because bison (and wildfires) influenced tree growth.
If a piece of land has a balance of uplands, bottom land, bush and riparian areas cattle will only use certain areas. I know of a half section of a parkland farm where a herd/colony of mulies (20-35 animals) have lived alongside of a free ranging herd of grazing cattle (40-60 animals) for the past 40 years. I'm sure the cattle get jealous when the mulies can just hop the fence to chew on the field pea crops next door. And on the same land's treed bottomland there is always a cow moose or two using it as a calving ground. And I have shot and flushed whitetail on all levels of this land too. And now the occasional cougar is roaming through the property on its rounds too. Amphibians, ground birds, yappers and small critters are all intact too. I can think of other properties that are similar too.
This leads me to believe if a piece of land is allowed to develop over time into an ecosystem with cattle incorporated onto it there can be a balance of most species. The role of the land steward is to understand and manage the land according to the land's carrying capacities.
Thanks for letting me share my 2 cents...for what it's worth.
__________________
___________________________________________
This country was started by voyagers whose young lives were swept away by the currents of the rivers for ten cents a day... just for the vanity of the European's beaver hats. ~ Red Bullets
___________________________________________
It is when you walk alone in nature that you discover your strengths and weaknesses. ~ Red Bullets
Last edited by Red Bullets; 05-18-2019 at 11:57 PM.
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05-19-2019, 12:58 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sledin
Cows themselves don’t chase the deer away, I think it’s more that the cows are so intense on the underbrush that the deer don’t have the cover they want for bedding down and the forage is grazed down.
So two factors of what deer want are diminished, add the forage back in the deer will feed there and it could be better, but the deer will be more transient only feeding.
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X2
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05-19-2019, 06:05 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Saskatoon
Posts: 1,592
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As has been stated, it depends on the intensity of cattle pressure on a piece of land and the state of plant succession.
Lack of major grazing species and absence of fire allows a plant succession of increasing bush density, often to the point that it is less attractive land for game birds and deer.
On the other hand, native prairie with small bush clumps is ideal land for Sharptails. With heavy stocking levels of cattle, the bush is demolished and the waterhole becomes a mudhole, making it less attractive for wildlife.
Light grazing pressure can actually improve denser bush as wildlife habitat.
90 acres is quite a small piece of habitat. You should look at that parcel in context of the lands around it.
Last edited by saskbooknut; 05-19-2019 at 06:15 AM.
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05-19-2019, 07:20 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 975
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If you want to see what happens when cattle and wildlife coexist? Come down to Waterton. A protected park next to private cattle ranches . The ungulates move out of the old stale grass of Waterton to the lush second growth of the ranchlands. Deer and Elk prefer to graze behind cattle,much like they did for thousands of years behind the bison.
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05-19-2019, 08:58 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 349
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I have to agree with the comments that grazing improves the use of pasture by wildlife, I have 1 quarter that I grazed heavy for about 4 month a year and it always had elk and deer year round even when the horse were there. Since I cut back on the horses the area does not get used much and I never see the game there. The adjoining quarter with my cows on it is now where I see the elk and deer, and always on the short grass that the cows keep chewed down.
It has to do with the new grass being more nutritious and better energy
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05-19-2019, 10:26 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canmore
Posts: 4,740
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Deer, elk, perhaps even moose can do well with cattle. But not entire, natural communities. There's a big difference between land and its diversity of creatures that evolved with constantly moving herds of bison, and land and waterbodies that now contains fenced-in cattle.
Visit a few of Alberta's 'Natural Areas' where no cattle are permitted, or a few Nature Conservancy properties, most of which exclude cattle, or even some of those Ducks Unlimited properties where cattle are excluded, and you can see the difference for yourself.
I'm thankful to hunt grazing leases, with their abundance of deer & elk and moose, but if I want to photograph a wide variety of native flowers & plants, birds, small wildlife or insects - I head for areas protected from grazing cattle.
Anecdotally, elk, in particular, do very well in my yard in Canmore, but that doesn't make my land holding much a wildlife sanctuary!
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The world is changed by your action, not by your opinion.
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05-19-2019, 11:00 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,377
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food is not the only motivator
Any port in a storm.
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05-20-2019, 02:51 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper
Deer, elk, perhaps even moose can do well with cattle. But not entire, natural communities. There's a big difference between land and its diversity of creatures that evolved with constantly moving herds of bison, and land and waterbodies that now contains fenced-in cattle.
Visit a few of Alberta's 'Natural Areas' where no cattle are permitted, or a few Nature Conservancy properties, most of which exclude cattle, or even some of those Ducks Unlimited properties where cattle are excluded, and you can see the difference for yourself.
I'm thankful to hunt grazing leases, with their abundance of deer & elk and moose, but if I want to photograph a wide variety of native flowers & plants, birds, small wildlife or insects - I head for areas protected from grazing cattle.
Anecdotally, elk, in particular, do very well in my yard in Canmore, but that doesn't make my land holding much a wildlife sanctuary!
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Don’t know of any Nature Conservancy properties that excludes grazing.( not in SW AB anyway) they promote grazing to encourage biodiversity, and fire suppression. Their studies show that wildlife benifits from a. Proper grazing plan .
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05-20-2019, 06:15 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,520
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Ungulate numbers are lower with the presence of cattle. In general. The flaura/fauna of your land will be set back at least 20 years if it recovers at all in your lifetime.
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05-20-2019, 06:36 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,843
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Elk won’t be anywhere near cattle, but the mule deer, whitetail, moose and pronghorns don’t mind the cattle. Once the cattle are out of the pasture the elk will move in. Elk and cattle are like oil and water.
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05-20-2019, 06:49 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Drayton Valley
Posts: 1,251
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Dunno about that. I've had Elk eating from bale feeders in the field along with the cows. They also jumped the fence into the bale yard and opened up a row of silage bales - what a mess
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05-20-2019, 08:30 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,721
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Must be a factor involved that creates different situations. I witnessed 2 cows chase a moose out of a pasture near Nanton. They never stopped until the moose jumped the fence, it didn’t look like they were just having fun either. Maybe the amount of feed available has something to do with it.
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05-20-2019, 09:46 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,667
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Of course cows don’t drive off wildlife, they can’t drive to begin with
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05-20-2019, 10:12 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef
Of course cows don’t drive off wildlife, they can’t drive to begin with
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05-20-2019, 12:09 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
Ungulate numbers are lower with the presence of cattle. In general. The flaura/fauna of your land will be set back at least 20 years if it recovers at all in your lifetime.
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Please show study that supports this claim ? Or are you an arm chair biologist?
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05-20-2019, 01:47 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landowner
Please show study that supports this claim ? Or are you an arm chair biologist?
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I was wrong. Can’t remember where I got that info as I’ve had it a long time. Doing searches and reading some studies says the opposite in fact. The only negative impacts I can find involve streams. Nothing really on grassland. Not sure if I was told that or read it somewhere. But in the end it would appear beneficial in fact!
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05-20-2019, 02:36 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 975
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Of course over grazing and poor management is detrimental to both game and livestock. Numerous studies have shown good practices enhance grazing for wildlife. That includes the Nature Conservancy, and AB govt .
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05-20-2019, 02:50 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landowner
Of course over grazing and poor management is detrimental to both game and livestock. Numerous studies have shown good practices enhance grazing for wildlife. That includes the Nature Conservancy, and AB govt .
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It either needs to be grazed or burned off to remain healthy. Nowadays grazing is the popular choice....
Back in the day the Indians burned it off for good reason
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05-20-2019, 04:32 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 346
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A quarter I hunt has elk in sept all the time, but when they move the cattle in in oct. the elk move on. But they do tolerate them
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05-20-2019, 10:35 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,667
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An area without cattle and especially horses will have more wildlife that those that do. That’s almost a guarantee. Can they coexist? Yup, but they prefer not to. It’s rare to see deer, elk or moose right in with cattle.
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05-20-2019, 11:07 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef
Of course cows don’t drive off wildlife, they can’t drive to begin with
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Baha
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05-21-2019, 05:35 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
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Deer and moose yes. Elk no.
They stink, make messes of wetland, and are clumsy and noisy. Three thinks elk hate.
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