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  #31  
Old 10-31-2018, 09:52 AM
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DirtyBert DirtyBert is offline
 
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I use brown Rice-a-roni. Its the San Francisco treat!
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  #32  
Old 10-31-2018, 10:13 AM
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My rests are loaded with lead shot, I have used them for 50 years.
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  #33  
Old 10-31-2018, 12:29 PM
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Default Target Products or Sil Industrial Minerals ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by sns2 View Post
Go to a sandblasting place and pay em a few bucks. Serious. Don't overthink yourself.
I tried a local company; http://www.manusabrasive.com
Canadian manufacturer and supplier of air blast equipment & supplies - in business since 1983. They dont sell "heavy sand" / zircon sand / chromite sand. They suggested Target Products or Sil Industrial Minerals, both located in Edmonton …
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  #34  
Old 10-31-2018, 03:07 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Obviously, different shooters prefer different media ... and matching equipment to needs is important.
After I started shooting at paper from a bench it did not take long to realize I had much to learn so I started soaking up “advice” from shooters I observed that were getting “better than mine” downrange results. As much as I asked “how”, I asked “why”, and in time I was able to shoot as well as those whom I emulated. My point being, it is important to understand the mechanics behind “why” one “practice” trumps another.
With respect to bags, I get best results with a “bag” that is “firm” as opposed to “hard”. The bag needs to be filled with a medium that will retain shape. In a “sporter” style front bag, the rifle first slides under recoil with a tendency to roll to the right..and as the butt comes to a stop (center of the stop resistance is lower than the bore), the rifle rises and then drops back onto the rest. This results in some “pounding” to the bag which must be hard enough to resist changing shape or else the slide path will change from shot-to-shot (that difference eventually shows up on the paper downrange). In this case, what media will resist deforming? Will it be sand with small irregular shaped crystals that will lock tightly together OR will it be steel shot which is round and acts like a bunch of ball bearings with voids in the non-contact surfaces?
And then apply the same idea with what occurs with the stock in the rear bag.
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  #35  
Old 10-31-2018, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fps plus View Post
Sand blasting sand works fine . Can by a 50 lbs bag at princess auto for around $10.
Haha! No China lily required.

I used rice too. Very sturdy and no issues at all with moisture or wet conditions.
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  #36  
Old 10-31-2018, 10:12 PM
BKG BKG is offline
 
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Default For Bags

This is what works for me.
http://www.plasticsplusltd.com/acces...e-bag-discount
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  #37  
Old 11-01-2018, 07:40 AM
gtr gtr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwinchg View Post
Did some searching online tonight, 2 potential sources:
http://www.manusabrasive.com/
https://www.targetproducts.com/

Manufacturer : https://www.quikrete.com/ , product sold in many local stores
10+ different sands

Health caution, long term exposure with silica sand . acute, chronic, and accelerated silicosis : https://www.lung.org/lung-health-and...silicosis.html

One has to be very careful with using silica sand !!! The MSDSs (aka "safety data sheet") warn about that potential risk.
If the bullet doesn't get you, the sandbag will.
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  #38  
Old 11-01-2018, 02:01 PM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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I guess if you want to go into bench competitions and compete for records, you may have to forego the lead shot, but it is only a cry once buy once situation, get some good stuff, fill your bags and have at 'er. Just out of curiosity, anyone ever had anyone check the bags at a competition? For what I've done, nobody seemed to care, nobody cared, subject never came up.
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  #39  
Old 11-01-2018, 04:49 PM
HW223 HW223 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32-40win View Post
I guess if you want to go into bench competitions and compete for records, you may have to forego the lead shot, but it is only a cry once buy once situation, get some good stuff, fill your bags and have at 'er. Just out of curiosity, anyone ever had anyone check the bags at a competition? For what I've done, nobody seemed to care, nobody cared, subject never came up.
Short answer is Yes .for the serious accuracy enthusiast Chromite or zirconium in the rear bag . Play sand in the front is the norm in competition br . Check foundry suppliers for both that’s where they use it . Play sand available just about any where . Rear bag should be packed on the bottom and firm to hard . The ears firm with just a little air space. Stock should remain neutral under recoil . Front bag firm but not rock hard or the rifle will tend to bounce.
If your a plinker Its probably irrelevant and all that other stuff will work just fine
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  #40  
Old 11-01-2018, 07:56 PM
jayquiver jayquiver is offline
 
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Default What fill for shooting bags?

Back in Ft Mac now and my bags showed up today..

Going to try play sand up front and a little better sand in the rear if I can find it.

Just looking forward to shooting more often once hunting season is over. Thanks for all the suggestions



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  #41  
Old 11-01-2018, 10:13 PM
Mr.Crumbz Mr.Crumbz is offline
 
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I bought a bag of rubber mulch and mostly filled my bags with that. Then topped it off with washed sand from the job site. Light yet firm.
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  #42  
Old 11-01-2018, 10:57 PM
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bwinchg bwinchg is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr View Post
If the bullet doesn't get you, the sandbag will.
I kind of expected one or more AO members to find my health warning about silica sand questionable and also laughable - no surprise with that part Many of the products we use in our hobby are classified as "industrial use" and one has to be careful with how they are used in a "non industrial environment" - with moderation and finding the right balance, of course. Those safety warnings don't suddenly disappear when used away from work. Everyone is free to choose, what they use - at their own risk.
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  #43  
Old 11-01-2018, 11:24 PM
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Default Garnet Sand ?

More than one bench rest forum mentions Zircon and some have used a combination of plastic pellets, lead shot, steel shot with sand. Zircon and chromite sand not easy to find locally. Zircon is $280 for a 50lb bag - Toronto sculpting supply store.

https://www.sandatlas.org/heavy-mineral-sand/
Garnet sand is similar to chromite, zircon in density. Used in sandpaper and sandblasting applications.

One possible source for garnet sand, 50 lb bag: https://www.consolidatedcompressor.com/abrasives
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  #44  
Old 11-02-2018, 06:32 AM
HW223 HW223 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwinchg View Post
More than one bench rest forum mentions Zircon and some have used a combination of plastic pellets, lead shot, steel shot with sand. Zircon and chromite sand not easy to find locally. Zircon is $280 for a 50lb bag - Toronto sculpting supply store.

https://www.sandatlas.org/heavy-mineral-sand/
Garnet sand is similar to chromite, zircon in density. Used in sandpaper and sandblasting applications.

One possible source for garnet sand, 50 lb bag: https://www.consolidatedcompressor.com/abrasives
As mentioned above metallic fill is not allowed in br ,garnet doesn’t pack well so Is not a great choice for a rear bag .chromite is about .50 lb . shipping is the tough part .if chromite is not an option sand would be preferable to plastic or rice or any of the other mediums mentioned as they offer nothing positive in the accuracy dept other than they keep the gun off the bench .they tend to transit harmonics from recoil back to the stock rather than absorb them causeing stray shots .
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  #45  
Old 11-02-2018, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
I filled mine with rice about 4yrs ago, still hasn’t softened up enough for me to bring out the soya sauce.
this is what I did like 15years ago and still works very well.
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  #46  
Old 11-02-2018, 10:55 AM
trailraat trailraat is offline
 
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I used wheat. It's seems to work pretty well, it's heavy. I've had it for 3 years and it doesn't smell like stale beer yet.
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  #47  
Old 11-02-2018, 11:23 AM
sarahfaye sarahfaye is offline
 
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Anyone use glass blasting beads ?
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  #48  
Old 11-02-2018, 01:29 PM
robbiebobbie robbiebobbie is offline
 
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I gutted a teddy bear full of beads from Value Village to fill mine. Light and cuddly.
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  #49  
Old 11-02-2018, 09:06 PM
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bwinchg bwinchg is offline
 
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I learned recently sand sold at local home improvement stores isn't optimal for weight, especially the rear bag. The heavy sand recommended by 6mmbr's website isn't plentiful either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
After I started shooting at paper from a bench it did not take long to realize I had much to learn so I started soaking up “advice” from shooters I observed that were getting “better than mine” downrange results. .
I am in the same place as 260Rem and in agreement, there is much to learn about improving my shooting ability, with better shooting bags, filled with the optimal weight. I don't compete but want to learn more. Finding the correct filler locally for the rear bag, is not as simple or safe as one assumes

Cheaper alternative for a filler :
Silica sand comes with a "silicosis" warning. I learned this past week , inexpensive "sand blasting" sand also known as Ebony Grit "30/50", Green Grit "30/60", ENVIRO-GRIT 30/60 is significantly more toxic than silica sand. One requires an expensive NIOSH approved respirator to handle the these products safely at work. Use it away from work and that same handling procedure is required !!! The contradiction with "sand blasting" sand is that it doesn't have any hazardous chemicals but comes with acute health effects from a repeated, long term exposure over a lifetime - inhalation of very fine particles

Potential health risk with some fillers - the "why" behind my concern
Some guys on this forum are quick to judge me , on my health concern with "industrial use" products including fillers for sand bags - I expect that, no surprise there. All about moderation, I get that part very well. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. A family member who embraced this hobby with a lifetime passion, used many "industrial use" products away from work, without any cause for concern , with safe handling procedures - ignored them often and eventually passed away of 2 aggressive and incurable forms of cancer within weeks. It was an unpleasant place to be, those dark days have passed. I am not abandoning this hobby because of potential health risks - actually embracing it more, with a stronger passion. I learned through lots of research, I have many choices now for bio-degradable, non-toxic products. MPro7 is a great example for that.
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  #50  
Old 11-02-2018, 09:31 PM
SteyrSSG SteyrSSG is offline
 
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Default Shooting bag fill

I have been using aquarium gravel. It can be purchased at most pet stores. A 10 kgs. bag will cost you around $20.00. It is a fairly heavy granular material that locks together and has the added bonus of not swelling when it gets wet.
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  #51  
Old 11-02-2018, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwinchg View Post



Use it away from work and that same handling procedure is required !!! The contradiction with "sand blasting" sand is that it doesn't have any hazardous chemicals but comes with acute health effects from a repeated, long term exposure over a lifetime - inhalation of very fine particles
The harm comes when it is blasted through a nozzle at high pressure where it fractures upon impact creating clouds of dust if you breathe it unprotected without filtration or supplied air. In a shooting bag no dust is created, its un likely to create harmful clouds of dust from a sealed leather bag. You could lay on a pile of silica sand for weeks and it won't hurt you. The emissions from cartridge combustion coming out your barrel that you actually do breathe in while shooting is probably of far greater concern than the inert undisturbed sand inside a bag under your rifle. The sand isn't giving off dangerous levels of silica dust or off gassing harmful toxins when used as a shooting bag filler.
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  #52  
Old 11-03-2018, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post
The harm comes when it is blasted through a nozzle at high pressure where it fractures upon impact creating clouds of dust if you breathe it unprotected without filtration or supplied air. In a shooting bag no dust is created, its un likely to create harmful clouds of dust from a sealed leather bag. You could lay on a pile of silica sand for weeks and it won't hurt you. The emissions from cartridge combustion coming out your barrel that you actually do breathe in while shooting is probably of far greater concern than the inert undisturbed sand inside a bag under your rifle. The sand isn't giving off dangerous levels of silica dust or off gassing harmful toxins when used as a shooting bag filler.
pump the brakes on the common sense there mark! no need to blow people's minds.
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  #53  
Old 11-03-2018, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushrat View Post
You could lay on a pile of silica sand for weeks and it won't hurt you.
I am probably going to get some more criticism with this one too - no surprise with that either

Everyone is free to choose how they interpret this. Careful handling is still required for a 50lb bag. Awareness with safe handling, is my only point :

True , silica sand is inert when in a sealed bag or a pile of it, left undisturbed. The "undisturbed" part is the important. In agreement, the process of sand blasting creates silica dust. It is also the handling of the silica sand that can also generate dust in the air. A 50lb bag is a typical size, a leaking bag (not the bench rest bag) needs to be swept up. NIOSH identified seven primary sources of silica dust exposure back in 2016:

https://www.osha.gov/dts/hazardalert...ard_alert.html
Transporting, moving, and refilling silica sand into and through sand movers, along transfer belts, and into blender hoppers can release dusts containing silica into the air. Workers can be exposed if they breathe the dust into their lungs.

Enviro-grit :
Do not rely on sight to determine if dust is in the air. Contaminants may be in the air without a visible dust cloud. If dust cannot be kept below permissible limits, wear a high efficiency respirator approved for abrasive dust.

Silica Abrasive, 30-50:
Workers in the area, who are not exposed to the dust from blasting (for example, pouring bags of media into a hopper) must wear a
NIOSH N-95 particulate respirator, eye protection, and protective gloves/clothing when handling product.
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  #54  
Old 11-03-2018, 03:18 PM
HW223 HW223 is offline
 
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Silicosis is from long term exposure , unlikely you’ll get that from filling your sand bag , common sense rules , if you don’t have that you probably should not be around firearms any way .
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  #55  
Old 11-03-2018, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HW223 View Post
Silicosis is from long term exposure , unlikely you’ll get that from filling your sand bag , common sense rules , if you don’t have
that you probably should not be around firearms any way .
Almost every local business that sells aggregate or sand based product was unfamiliar with zircon or chromite sand - I contacted many. Unfortunately , many of them weren't able to tell me about a similar use product either.

I am not an expert on sandbags or bench rest - a novice. That is why I am on this forum - to learn more I learned recently, one clearly needs to be careful with silica sand, when transferring it from a 50lb bag. Common sense rules when filling a sand bag from a 50lb bag - a dust cloud should be avoided. Use a small cup and then pour it slowly into a funnel.

It is too bad there isn't a local supplier for zircon or chromate sand. Many could benefit from a solid rear bag instead of using a far less superior filler.

Not very surprised by your criticism, actually expecting one or more comments like yours - wasn't born yesterday.

Acute (short term) / chronic (10 to 30 years) / accelerated (high level exposure) silicosis - you may want to read up on that.


Last edited by bwinchg; 11-03-2018 at 04:35 PM.
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  #56  
Old 11-03-2018, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by trailraat View Post
I used wheat. It's seems to work pretty well, it's heavy. I've had it for 3 years and it doesn't smell like stale beer yet.
I have had one for years that I filled with wheat. Another filled with sand I scooped up in the riding arena.
Whatever works, not really rocket science. Don't overthink it
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  #57  
Old 11-03-2018, 04:55 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by sarahfaye View Post
Anyone use glass blasting beads ?
They work very well.
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  #58  
Old 11-03-2018, 05:13 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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With a decent rig, load, and hold ... most would shoot consistent sub MOA groups with a rear bag full of Jello topped off with water. For sub 1/2 MOA change the Jello out for sand, and for sub 1/4 MOA make that heavy sand.
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  #59  
Old 11-03-2018, 06:32 PM
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I used walnut shells (course) in one set and the gravel for a fish tank (blue rocks) in the other set.
I'm happy with both.
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  #60  
Old 11-03-2018, 06:36 PM
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Default Recoverable zircon from oil sands plants

I am amazed that zircon sand is as hard to find as dilithium crystals - locally.

Of course, I exaggerated about crystals from that imaginary universe LOL My intention all along, was to only share the health caution with pouring of 50lb bag of silica sand into smaller containers and the dangerous dust plume it creates. The sand is inert and safe to use , the dust plume part of it, is potentially dangerous.



[From 2001 report]
Tailings from the two current oil sands plants contain approximately 80,000 tonnes per year of recoverable zircon - approximately 9% of the world’s zircon production.

Zircon Graph.jpg

https://www.sgs.com/-/media/global/d...metallurgy.pdf

Peace to everyone that took offense to my narrative with silica sand and potential dust plumes.

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