Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Guns & Ammo Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-26-2017, 06:39 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 6,550
Default Nitriding a Barrel

Anybody had a chambered barrel (bore included) nitride treated...results?
__________________
Old Guys Rule
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-26-2017, 06:43 PM
warriorboy10 warriorboy10 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Campbelltown
Posts: 491
Default

Can’t see why it won’t hurt but don’t really see any benefits of it either. Not in this application.
What reason to do you see it benefiting?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-26-2017, 06:52 PM
sanjuanworm sanjuanworm is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 598
Default

Make sure you ask for qpq liquid nitriding.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-26-2017, 07:03 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 6,550
Default

A friend is having one done as an experiment ... I think most to see if it affects accuracy. If it works, I would consider having a sporter contour done as a rust inhibitor.
__________________
Old Guys Rule
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-26-2017, 07:16 PM
warriorboy10 warriorboy10 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Campbelltown
Posts: 491
Default

If it’s a new build possibly but to tear a rifle down to try it, think I’d be chatting with a couple of builders or further research is needed.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-26-2017, 07:45 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 6,550
Default

Only tinkering with aftermarket barrels on builds. If it does not have a negative effect on accuracy, it would be interesting to do some assessment regarding throat errosion and resistance to fouling.
__________________
Old Guys Rule
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-26-2017, 09:02 PM
7 REM MAG 7 REM MAG is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,089
Default

I've got an rks barrel that was nitrited, thus far it shows sub 3/4 moa but I only have about 40 rounds through it. I've heard that nitriding can increase break in time as the coating takes a while to break down inside the bore, not sure how reliable that is though. The coating has also not been blown off the muzzle/crown area of the barrel, which with my cerakoted barrel the coating was starting to come off after 20 shots
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-26-2017, 09:35 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 6,550
Default

Thanks for your info 7RM. My understanding is that the break-in needs to be done before the process ... then cleaned completely of copper fouling ... preferably confirmed with a bore scope. If nitrided over, the copper would be near impossible to remove.
I have a couple of sporter contour barrels with a few hundred rounds through them to choose between if I decide to give it a try. I am hoping my friend gets his to the Range within a few weeks.
EDIT: What color did your barrel take?
__________________
Old Guys Rule
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-27-2017, 06:48 AM
Altaboy Altaboy is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sherwood Park
Posts: 131
Default

Copper reacts with nitriding causing pitting
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-27-2017, 07:17 AM
fish_e_o's Avatar
fish_e_o fish_e_o is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: rollyview
Posts: 7,475
Default

you may get longer barrel life. although with a case hardening thickness of 2 thou i doubt you notice it.

i think you would notice increased cleaning due to a rougher surface than before.

i personally wouldn't because why mess with a good thing? if it was the new big thing everyone would be doing it.
__________________
Savage barrel nuts
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-27-2017, 08:13 AM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 6,550
Default

Hmmm...nice to have a friend taking the lead. Buddy did mention it would need some "cleaning up" ... don't know if that would involve polishing in any way. I was unaware the nitrided surface would be rougher. The real test will start once he starts shooting the barrel.
I suppose I could get the results I am looking for to reduce shine/rust in the field by using multicolor sharpies
__________________
Old Guys Rule

Last edited by 260 Rem; 09-27-2017 at 08:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-27-2017, 09:30 AM
fish_e_o's Avatar
fish_e_o fish_e_o is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: rollyview
Posts: 7,475
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Hmmm...nice to have a friend taking the lead. Buddy did mention it would need some "cleaning up" ... don't know if that would involve polishing in any way. I was unaware the nitrided surface would be rougher. The real test will start once he starts shooting the barrel.
I suppose I could get the results I am looking for to reduce shine/rust in the field by using multicolor sharpies
it's used commonly as a replacement for bluing and used frequently used in the machinery world to case harden and inhibit rust formation by holding oil. the process is a form of oxidation not unlike rust.

on a new barrel where you might lapp the bore after treatment i would consider it. then you have case hardening and potentially a very smooth bore.
__________________
Savage barrel nuts
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-27-2017, 11:06 AM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 6,550
Default

I will likely eventually have a talk with Thermex ... in a perfect world, it would be nice to nitride the exterior surface and leave the bore, but maybe not possible?
__________________
Old Guys Rule
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-27-2017, 11:30 AM
fish_e_o's Avatar
fish_e_o fish_e_o is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: rollyview
Posts: 7,475
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
I will likely eventually have a talk with Thermex ... in a perfect world, it would be nice to nitride the exterior surface and leave the bore, but maybe not possible?
see if they can do it, i bet they can, they're pretty good.
__________________
Savage barrel nuts
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-10-2017, 12:23 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 6,550
Default

Spoke with my friend this morning... He had a KSA barrel chambered to 6.5 Grendel and nitrided before any rounds fired. Initial cleaning was difficult and he resorted to bore paste to get it nice and smooth. Has shot only two 5 shot fireforming groups that came in mid .3’s.
I have contacted Thermex to see if they have process to do “outside” only but have not yet had a reply.
__________________
Old Guys Rule
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-10-2017, 01:54 PM
chuck's Avatar
chuck chuck is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,800
Default

Is this coating impervious to moisture?
__________________
"All rifle mechanisms are not the same when it comes to reliability in the field."
-Bob F.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-10-2017, 01:56 PM
fish_e_o's Avatar
fish_e_o fish_e_o is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: rollyview
Posts: 7,475
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Is this coating impervious to moisture?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fish_e_o View Post
it's used commonly as a replacement for bluing and used frequently used in the machinery world to case harden and inhibit rust formation by holding oil. the process is a form of oxidation not unlike rust.

on a new barrel where you might lapp the bore after treatment i would consider it. then you have case hardening and potentially a very smooth bore.
not by itself
__________________
Savage barrel nuts
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:10 AM
ghostguy6's Avatar
ghostguy6 ghostguy6 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton
Posts: 1,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
I will likely eventually have a talk with Thermex ... in a perfect world, it would be nice to nitride the exterior surface and leave the bore, but maybe not possible?
If you want to selectively nitride a surface you would have to use gas nitriding. When I worked there they were not set up for that although they may be now. I did a few barrels there but they are a pain to wash the salt out of the bore when its finished. Once that salt solidifies your taking it to a gunsmith to be professionally cleaned and inspected. There are two different salt baths and a light sandblasting between each coat. After the first coat is applied the surface oxides must be removed or the second coat will turn out a bright rust red color. It is impossible to fully remove that oxide from the bore with the sand blaster so you can expect the reddish color in your bore. Also the finish on the outside will vary similar to cold blueing, If you leave it long enough you can get a fairly black surface but there still might be color variances. If left long enough you can expect a surface hardness of 520 to 700 brinell if I remember correctly. There is some microscopic surface pitting when liquid nitriding so I would expect your bore to foul more quickly. Lastly I'm not even sure if they would touch a used barrel because of the risk of copper and lead contamination. All the ones I did were new heavy barrel .338 lapua's but I do know each one was inspected by the armorers for the military so I cant say exactly what had to happen before they could be used.
__________________
Treat management like the person you just put into handcuffs. Treat them firm, fair and expect to be lied to excessively.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:49 AM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 6,550
Default

Ghost —Thanks for sharing your knowledge/experience. Yes, he had quite a time getting the salt out of the bore. Eventually resorted to bore paste. (That experience alone turned me off the idea of trying the bore.). He keeps good records so after some time, should have comment on the nitride effect on the throat (ie: does the hardness decrease the rate of throat erosion?), rate of fouling, group consistency.
__________________
Old Guys Rule
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:57 AM
ghostguy6's Avatar
ghostguy6 ghostguy6 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton
Posts: 1,508
Default

Please let me know what your findings are. I always wondered if it was worth it because we would get lots of bolt, action and trigger group parts but few barrels. I started to get the impression that the barrels were some sort of test just based on the ratio. Since these were milspec rifles I thought they would have all been made to the same specs.
__________________
Treat management like the person you just put into handcuffs. Treat them firm, fair and expect to be lied to excessively.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:01 AM
chuck's Avatar
chuck chuck is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,800
Default

If it is not weather impervious then what is the attraction?
__________________
"All rifle mechanisms are not the same when it comes to reliability in the field."
-Bob F.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:15 AM
ghostguy6's Avatar
ghostguy6 ghostguy6 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: edmonton
Posts: 1,508
Default

Its not 100% corrosion resistant but it helps, its like a heavy duty version of blueing but also surface hardens the steel up to a depth of 0.012"
__________________
Treat management like the person you just put into handcuffs. Treat them firm, fair and expect to be lied to excessively.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:10 PM
fish_e_o's Avatar
fish_e_o fish_e_o is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: rollyview
Posts: 7,475
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostguy6 View Post
If you want to selectively nitride a surface you would have to use gas nitriding. When I worked there they were not set up for that although they may be now.
if they don't i just sent some stuff to hi tech heat treating for gas
__________________
Savage barrel nuts
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.