Question re authorization to grant land access

[270person]

Apologies if this has been covered recently or if it's right under my nose in the regs.

I have permission from the land "owner" to hunt a couple of pieces of land but was advised the land "renter" may also grant permission to a few friends. The land has no residence located on it. Renter may have crops on the untreed portion but does not graze cattle on it.

Land is posted No Hunting but the landowner advises that people in the area hunt it anyways. Country neighbor and small town entitlement thing I guess. Doesn't fly with me unfortunately.

Who has ultimate authority to grant access? I'm sensing a brouhaha, donnybrook, or potential standoff opening morning if the answer is "both".

Thanks in advance.

[hillbillyreefer]

If the landowner says go ahead let the renter know you have permission from him, may help avoid unpleasant interactions opening morning.

If everyone with irons in the fire knows what's going on the chances for problems will be reduced.

The owner would have the ultimate say, unless the rental agreement says otherwise.

[ryeguy21]

Im confused. You said the landowner allows the renter to do as he pleases with letting friends hunt the land. It sounds like you want to prevent the land owners friends from accessing the land when hes told you that there will be other people hunting it.

Not sure what to tell you but if you raise a stink it will be the land owner needing to press charges and it doesnt seem like that will happen.

Where i hunt farmers will allow this exact scenario to play out on their land. I dont see the issue if the farmer has specifically told you to expect others to be there.

[270person]

Originally Posted by ryeguy21

Im confused. You said the landowner allows the renter to do as he pleases with letting friends hunt the land. It sounds like you want to prevent the land owners friends from accessing the land when hes told you that there will be other people hunting it.

Not sure what to tell you but if you raise a stink it will be the land owner needing to press charges and it doesnt seem like that will happen.

Where i hunt farmers will allow this exact scenario to play out on their land. I dont see the issue if the farmer has specifically told you to expect others to be there.

Landowner basically turns a blind eye to what the renter does, because he's never been "formally" asked for permission before. Renter and surrounding community seem to think they can hunt/allow access with or without landowners permission even though the land is posted.

It's a 1/4 section so not a big piece of property, but it abuts crown land. I'm one of those who prefers not to hunt a property of that size if I think there "might" be someone else on it, OR showing up while I am hunting it.

Pretty lousy scenario if one party is bow or stand hunting and a couple of rifle hunters come strolling through.

[ryeguy21]

My first conversation would be with the land owner on what he wants done if you see anyone there. If the land owner continues to ignore those using the land then what are you going to do?

He has contact info to the person renting his land. Why not reach out to him as well?

It seems your preparing for a heated situation when there seems like an obvious first few steps you could take.

[270person]

Originally Posted by ryeguy21

My first conversation would be with the land owner on what he wants done if you see anyone there. If the land owner continues to ignore those using the land then what are you going to do?

He has contact info to the person renting his land. Why not reach out to him as well?

It seems your preparing for a heated situation when there seems like an obvious first few steps you could take.

I've got all the Obvious bases covered thanks. I know the landowner. All I asked for is who has final say by law. Owner or renter.

[Pikebreath]

The renter is considered a legal occupant and has the right to grant / disallow access as well, so without an understood "agreement" as part of the rental / lease between the landowner and renter clarifying access control, then the renter has the legal ability to ask you to leave,, or for that matter grant access.

And for what it is worth, crop land is not considered rented only during the time the crop is the field unless that is part of original rental agreement. The farmer /operator has every legal right to control access year round as he has a vested interest in the land and wants to protect the land from potential fires, ruts, compaction, introduction of weeds and other pathogens (i.e.. club root) etc. which could effect his ability to grow crops in future years.

The best case scenario is to talk to the renter as well,,, most renters are not that hard nosed that they will turn down someone with landowner permission if they know that to be the case. In many cases it is the renter that looks after the property for an absentee landlord and renters often run into hunters who claim they have permission from the landlord when confronted which frequently proves to be a bogus claim.

I am all of the following,,, a farming landowner, a farming renter and an absentee landowner. I know from numerous experiences every year, hunters often try to gain access or by circumventing one of the party's if they don't like or know the answer they will get from one. The renter has far more interest in the property than the recreational hunter and the landlord / renter relationship is far more important to both the renter and landlord than your ability to use it for recreational hunting.

And to restate in case it hasn't been made clear yet,,,, the renter as the legal occupier has the legal right to ask you to leave the property.

Excerpted from the Petty Trespass Act:

PETTY TRESPASS ACT Chapter P-11

PETTY TRESPASS ACT

Prohibition 2(1) Every person who

2 (a) without the permission of the owner or occupier of land enters on land when entry is prohibited under section 2.1, or

(b) does not leave land immediately after he or she is directed to do so by the owner or occupier of the land or a person authorized by the owner or occupier is guilty of an offence.


The link to the Official Alberta Petty Trespass Act is found here for further info.

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/P11.pdf

[270person]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

The renter is considered a legal occupant and has the right to grant / disallow access as well, so without an understood "agreement" as part of the rental / lease between the landowner and renter clarifying access control, then the renter has the legal ability to ask you to leave,, or for that matter grant access.

Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.

[IL Bar]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

The renter is considered a legal occupant and has the right to grant / disallow access as well, so without an understood "agreement" as part of the rental / lease between the landowner and renter clarifying access control, then the renter has the legal ability to ask you to leave,, or for that matter grant access.

And for what it is worth, crop land is not considered rented only during the time the crop is the field unless that is part of original rental agreement. The farmer /operator has every legal right to control access year round as he has a vested interest in the land and wants to protect the land from potential fires, ruts, compaction, introduction of weeds and other pathogens (i.e.. club root) etc. which could effect his ability to grow crops in future years.

The best case scenario is to talk to the renter as well,,, most renters are not that hard nosed that they will turn down someone with landowner permission if they know that to be the case. In many cases it is the renter that looks after the property for an absentee landlord and renters often run into hunters who claim they have permission from the landlord when confronted which frequently proves to be a bogus claim.

I am all of the following,,, a farming landowner, a farming renter and an absentee landowner. I know from numerous experiences every year, hunters often try to gain access or by circumventing one of the party's if they don't like or know the answer they will get from one. The renter has far more interest in the property than the recreational hunter and the landlord / renter relationship is far more important to both the renter and landlord than your ability to use it for recreational hunting.

And to restate in case it hasn't been made clear yet,,,, the renter as the legal occupier has the legal right to ask you to leave the property.

Excerpted from the Petty Trespass Act:

PETTY TRESPASS ACT Chapter P-11

PETTY TRESPASS ACT

Prohibition 2(1) Every person who

2 (a) without the permission of the owner or occupier of land enters on land when entry is prohibited under section 2.1, or

(b) does not leave land immediately after he or she is directed to do so by the owner or occupier of the land or a person authorized by the owner or occupier is guilty of an offence.


The link to the Official Alberta Petty Trespass Act is found here for further info.

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/P11.pdf

Thank you Pikebreath for posting this. I wish more people understood how it works. Many so called Professional guides don't seem to understand this.

[last minute]

If the landowner says go ahead let the renter know you have permission from him, may help avoid unpleasant interactions opening morning.

I think that's sound advise you can't go wrong .

[35 whelen]

in Alberta a guide needs to have permission to hunt on private land from the land owner or the renter

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[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by 270person

Apologies if this has been covered recently or if it's right under my nose in the regs.

I have permission from the land "owner" to hunt a couple of pieces of land but was advised the land "renter" may also grant permission to a few friends. The land has no residence located on it. Renter may have crops on the untreed portion but does not graze cattle on it.

Land is posted No Hunting but the landowner advises that people in the area hunt it anyways. Country neighbor and small town entitlement thing I guess. Doesn't fly with me unfortunately.

Who has ultimate authority to grant access? I'm sensing a brouhaha, donnybrook, or potential standoff opening morning if the answer is "both".

Thanks in advance.

What the landowner says goes. If he lets the renter grant access as well, then that is legitimate as well. I suspect you may have company when you hunt, and the best thing you can do is smile and share, or move on. I have a landowner who gives me access, but also lets a lot of others on. Nothing I can do about it.