If you were buying a bird gun today..

[birdman86]

What would you get? I have a win SX3 which has been great but thinking about upgrading. Mostly waterfowl but hoping to train the dog up and do more upland by next year.

Chamber...would like 3.5". Main reason to look for an upgrade.

Also thinking OU but don't see many guys using them in the field (for good reason?)...rarely use the third shot in my SX, and it'd be nice to have something that doesn't eject shells twenty feet away.

Recommendations?

[fishnguy]

Saw the thread title and went in to say the SX3, haha. Guess I am no help.

[elkhunter11]

If you already shoot an SX-3 what are you hoping to gain? What do you consider an upgrade? Spending more, isn't necessarily an upgrade.

[saskbooknut]

About two shots from a 3.5 inch over/under should cure you of that urge.
I can see an over/under for Upland, bit it would be light, and likely 20 gauge.
Your waterfowl gun is about as good as it gets.

[birdman86]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If you already shoot an SX-3 what are you hoping to gain? What do you consider an upgrade? Spending more, isn't necessarily an upgrade.

I've got two thoughts bouncing around:

1 - Is a 3.5" chamber worth it? (mine only has 3") Lots of geese fly over my house maybe 40-50 yards out, so I was thinking a bigger chamber might help me reach them
2 - Any reason not to get an OU? I'm sick of hunting down shells in the grass

And then there's the part where I'm probably just looking for excuses to buy a new gun

[Flight01]

I wouldn’t upgrade your waterfowl gun.
But you have my permission to go get yourself a nice 20 gauge O/U for upland

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Flight01

I wouldn’t upgrade your waterfowl gun.
But you have my permission to go get yourself a nice 20 gauge O/U for upland

This x 100

There is zero wrong with your shotgun. One of the most reliable and value semis out there.

I guess there is nothing wrong with 3.5" shells, but they sure as heck are not necessary to consistently kill limits. You would gain a lot more by getting a a Patternmaster or similar extended choke.

[wwbirds]

like a side x side many dog owners prefer break action shotguns when hunting with dogs and especially for upland. I have been told this is for several reasons.
A broken o/u or s/s is easily identified as a safe gun while the action is open by anyone from 50 yards away and although a pump or semi may have the action open it is not as easily seen at distance. Sometimes I dont even close the action until the dogs act birdy. I love my 20 and 28 guage o/u for upland as they are light and carry and point well which is not necessarily true for a 12 gauge.
One of my 12's is a 3.5 and I have had a couple boxes of shells for it for about 6 years. Think I used a few on a goose hunt near Stetler a few years ago but believe there is not enough advantage to shooting 3.5 over 3 inch for geese as 3 inch kill them just fine at 35 yards. 40 might be possible with 3.5 but you also might just wound more as the effective killing range of steel is at its limit around 40 yards.
My semi absorbs recoil so barely notice 3 or 3.5 difference but I would not want to be shooting a lot of 3.5 from an over/ under.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by birdman86

I've got two thoughts bouncing around:

1 - Is a 3.5" chamber worth it? (mine only has 3") Lots of geese fly over my house maybe 40-50 yards out, so I was thinking a bigger chamber might help me reach them
2 - Any reason not to get an OU? I'm sick of hunting down shells in the grass

And then there's the part where I'm probably just looking for excuses to buy a new gun

The 3.5" won't reach any further then a 2 3/4" . What it will do is throw more lead. Which may or may not help you make those longer shots

Wanting to not have to search for empties is as good a reason to switch as any I suppose.

Just wanting something different or new is also as good a reason as any.

One thing upgrading or switching is not likely to do is improve your shooting skill. Not saying it doesn't ever happen, just that it's not likely enough for that to be a good reason.

[birdman86]

Thanks all, pretty happy I posted this... I figured the SX3 was a great duck gun but really just trying to justify an over under.

So a 20g silver pigeon 1 looks nice but $2600 is a bit pricier than I'd like...doable but I'll feel it. Any other options I should look at, call it ~$2000?

[KegRiver]

A side note.

I suspect a lot of wing shooters underestimate the range they are shooting at.

40 yards 120 feet is only the height of a good sized tree.

Clean kills out to 60 yards is possible but it takes some serious lead to achieve.

I suspect lead is the main reason for missing those longer shots, not the shotgun or the cartridge.

I used to hunt along a bush line back home. (in Carcajou).
I knew the average tree there was around 140' tall.

The geese would come in just above the trees, it seemed doable.
But I couldn't seem to connect.

So for a time I gave up trying and switched to hunting the field itself. From, a blind..
I tried the tree line again recently but I had forgot what I used to lead them so I lead a full body length. Wouldn't you know it, I did connect.

But the geese promptly quite coming over the trees so low and that ended that.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by birdman86

Thanks all, pretty happy I posted this... I figured the SX3 was a great duck gun but really just trying to justify an over under.

So a 20g silver pigeon 1 looks nice but $2600 is a bit pricier than I'd like...doable but I'll feel it. Any other options I should look at, call it ~$2000?

Sorry, can't help you there.
I've never spent more then $200.00 on any gun.

[elkhunter11]

I did purchase some 3-1/2" loads once, because they were old stock, and were actually cheaper than the 3" loads, but I only ever fired one box for spring snow geese. The only difference that I noticed was more recoil, if you miss with a 3" load, you will miss with a 3-1/2" load.

[waldedw]

Never could figure out the reason behind the 3 1/2" other than marketing, hype and charging $40 or $50 a box ??? a 2 3/4" x 1 1/16 oz #2 steel at 1550 FPS kills geese just as good as a 3 " x 1 1/4 oz #2 steel at 1550 FPS or a 3 1/2" x 1 3/8 Oz #2 steel at 1550 FPS, same shot size, same speed, same terminal energy and same range.

Most geese I have cleaned have an average of 15 to 18 pellets in the breasts, the rest of them just fly on by and land in the field, IMHO the 3 1/2" only hurts the shooter but does nothing more on the other end, but hey whatever, I shoot 2 3/4 " steel @ 1500 and never feel under gunned, shoot over decoys at 35 yards or less and I don't try to bust geese at 60 yards.

A buddy of mine shoots a 20 ga with 1 oz and knocks geese down with great regularity, the real trick is to pick one goose and nail it in the center of the pattern and don't flock shoot.

I have had the same discussion with trap shooters that feel they need 3 dr 1 1/8 oz from the 16 yards line, by the end of the weekend and 1,000 rounds later they are beat up and pounded, I shoot 2 3/4 dr 1 oz for everything and since switching my scores have actually gone up, in fact this year I started practicing with 7/8 oz and really can't tell the difference on the target breaks, but sure can on the shoulder, I average 10,000 rounds a year, believe me when I say it's easier on the shoulder.

Anyway just my 2 cents worth for what it's worth.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waldedw

Never could figure out the reason behind the 3 1/2" other than marketing, hype and charging $40 or $50 a box ??? a 2 3/4" x 1 1/16 oz #2 steel at 1550 FPS kills geese just as good as a 3 " x 1 1/4 oz #2 steel at 1550 FPS or a 3 1/2" x 1 3/8 Oz #2 steel at 1550 FPS, same shot size, same speed, same terminal energy and same range.

Most geese I have cleaned have an average of 15 to 18 pellets in the breasts, the rest of them just fly on by and land in the field, IMHO the 3 1/2" only hurts the shooter but does nothing more on the other end, but hey whatever, I shoot 2 3/4 " steel @ 1500 and never feel under gunned, shoot over decoys at 35 yards or less and I don't try to bust geese at 60 yards.

A buddy of mine shoots a 20 ga with 1 oz and knocks geese down with great regularity, the real trick is to pick one goose and nail it in the center of the pattern and don't flock shoot.

I have had the same discussion with trap shooters that feel they need 3 dr 1 1/8 oz from the 16 yards line, by the end of the weekend and 1,000 rounds later they are beat up and pounded, I shoot 2 3/4 dr 1 oz for everything and since switching my scores have actually gone up, in fact this year I started practicing with 7/8 oz and really can't tell the difference on the target breaks, but sure can on the shoulder, I average 10,000 rounds a year, believe me when I say it's easier on the shoulder.

Anyway just my 2 cents worth for what it's worth.

Shooting ability definitely means more than the amount of shot you throw. Some skeet or sporting clays every summer will help a person kill more birds than 3-1/2" loads.

[marky_mark]

Beretta or benelli
Semi auto
Buy once cry once

[overhere]

I use a a400 xplor 20g beretta for upland is great to carry nice and light

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Beretta or benelli
Semi auto
Buy once cry once

Spend twice as much as his SX-3, and have a gun that is just as reliable. Browning, Winchester and Remington sell excellent semi auto shotguns.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Spend twice as much as his SX-3, and have a gun that is just as reliable.

Never had an issue with my benelli sbe2
And I think I cleaned it once a year
I like the idea that you can use any ammo you want
If you want to shoot 2 3/4” ammo, fine
If you want to use 3 1/2’s, a okay too

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Never had an issue with my benelli sbe2
And I think I cleaned it once a year
I like the idea that you can use any ammo you want
If you want to shoot 2 3/4” ammo, fine
If you want to use 3 1/2’s, a okay too

The Brownings, Winchester and Remingtons with 3-1/2" chambers shoot 2-3/4" target loads as well. It's the standard these days.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The Brownings, Winchester and Remingtons with 3-1/2" chambers shoot 2-3/4" target loads as well. It's the standard these days.

When I think reliable semi, the last thing that comes to my mind is Remington, Winchester or Weatherby
I had a older a5 and I liked it
So I can’t bash brownings

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

When I think reliable semi, the last thing that comes to my mind is Remington, Winchester or Weatherby
I had a older a5 and I liked it
So I can’t bash brownings

Try a Winchester SX-2/3/4 or a Versamax or V3, they are far superior to the old semi autos that were made in the 20th century. I wouldn't be using a Winchester SX-3 myself, if it wasn't as reliable as the A400, and the SBE2 that I owned, and sold. By the way, the SX-3 uses the same mechanism as the Browning Silver.

[marky_mark]

I would but I sucked it up and just bought a benelli the first time
Don’t need to buy another one til they come out with 4” ammo
Lol

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I would but I sucked it up and just bought a benelli the first time
Don’t need to buy another one til they come out with 4” ammo
Lol

That last statement explains it all.

[270person]

This baby will get the job done and save time plucking.


https://fishgame.com/2015/06/4-gauge...-recoil-video/

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by 270person

This baby will get the job done and save time plucking.


https://fishgame.com/2015/06/4-gauge...-recoil-video/

That reminds me of this one lol
https://youtu.be/vwHs4DtQU3I

The flinch maker

[270person]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

That reminds me of this one lol
https://youtu.be/vwHs4DtQU3I

The flinch maker

Tikka T3 in 338wm? That's pain.

[Twobucks]

Steel loses its energy quickly - shooting it faster or (past a point) having more of it in the air doesn't do very much. I'd spend the price of your gun upgrade on some clays and heavi-shot.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Twobucks

Steel loses its energy quickly - shooting it faster or (past a point) having more of it in the air doesn't do very much.

I do agree with the last half of your post, but not the first.

I've heard that many times and for years I believed it.
Now I'm not so sure it's true.

My go to shotgun is a Mossberg 16 gauge 2 3/4" bolt action.

I bring down Geese with it as far out as I ever did with lead shot and as far out as friends using 3 1/2" semi autos.

The reason that is the case can be found in ballistic comparisons between lead and steel shot.



Velocity differences of steel versus lead at 40 yards are negotiable these days, due to higher initial velocity of recent offerings and larger shot size typically used with steel shot.

In this chart, from Edward Lowry, a comparison between lead #2 shot and Steel #2 shot shows only a 18fps differance at 30 yards and 48fps at 60 yards.



Typical muzzle velocities back in the lead shot era was in the neighborhood of 1400fps
Today's steel shot loads generally run 1550fps or more.

#2 Black Cloud loads have a published muzzle velocity of 1635fps

[Pioneer2]

Went and stretched the 28ga to 3"