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  #181  
Old 10-21-2020, 10:52 PM
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Have you done any research on the amount of game now vs when your grandfather was shooting moose in July? My research suggests that there is more game around now than then, unless your grandfather was here before the buffalo were killed off. It is absurd to suggest that habitat loss is the reason that unregulated hunting is now unsustainable.
I was born in 1954, long after the buffalo were gone.

I have seen a profound drop in the numbers of many species. Moose, Fish, even Ducks.

Certain wildlife populations may have increased but many have been devastated by modern farming practices and habitat loss.

I don't get that from research, I get that from hands on, boots on the ground observation.

There is plenty of research out there that was done in the library, not in the field.

But you are right about unregulated hunting, at least with modern equipment. That is not sustainable and in fact is why we have conservation laws.
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  #182  
Old 10-21-2020, 10:55 PM
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Certain wildlife populations may have increased but many have been devastated by modern farming practices and habitat loss.
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  #183  
Old 10-22-2020, 06:16 AM
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  #184  
Old 10-22-2020, 09:26 AM
JDK71 JDK71 is offline
 
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Well how about your right to own property for starters.

Your deflections are interesting, but not well thought out.
its not are right to own property you have to work for it and pay for it
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  #185  
Old 10-22-2020, 09:33 AM
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its not are right to own property you have to work for it and pay for it
Nobody owns property in Canada. Not a single person. A group claims they own all of it, and they have actually been given something like 120% of all the land in BC, but you do not 'own land'.

You get the privelege of paying property tax on the land for the duration of time your name is on the tax roll. You pay an exorbitant amount for this honor, then are taxed for the 'privelege' until you find someone else to take over the payments.

Don't pay land tax for 2 years and see what happens to 'your land'.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #186  
Old 10-22-2020, 01:45 PM
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as you say i do not own it but i can control who comes on it and who can not that i can guarantee
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  #187  
Old 10-22-2020, 01:57 PM
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as you say i do not own it but i can control who comes on it and who can not that i can guarantee
You might really want to look into that one.....you have a privilidge of having land but if warranted can be "inspected" if required by law be it municipal, provincial or federal....and you will have little to no say other than the words out of your mouth s they walk on by....even as little as a illegal building, livestock etc......
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  #188  
Old 10-22-2020, 01:59 PM
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Oh i have be my guest if you would like to try it
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  #189  
Old 10-22-2020, 02:04 PM
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Oh i have be my guest if you would like to try it
huh...
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  #190  
Old 10-22-2020, 02:10 PM
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i find it funny how Some people like to tell land owners what they can do or cant do on there land
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  #191  
Old 10-22-2020, 02:18 PM
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i find it funny how Some people like to tell land owners what they can do or cant do on there land
I dont. Take the people who had the peaceful invaders steal chickens or turkeys or whatever it was. Not funny at all.

I know what you are saying, and I agree with you.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #192  
Old 10-22-2020, 02:24 PM
JDK71 JDK71 is offline
 
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not trying to start a fight just my thoughts i have spent a lot of money on my land and will not just stand by and let some one take advantage of it
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  #193  
Old 10-22-2020, 02:24 PM
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sorry 58 and Ken
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  #194  
Old 10-22-2020, 02:30 PM
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sorry 58 and Ken
all good...I wasn't referencing to dicks taking from you...I too would be say a little less welcoming....but if a fella shows up because I got 69 donkeys running amuck and wants to legally inspect the property...well crap eh!....anyone want a donkeyor two....
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  #195  
Old 10-22-2020, 02:33 PM
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all good...I wasn't referencing to dicks taking from you...I too would be say a little less welcoming....but if a fella shows up because I got 69 donkeys running amuck and wants to legally inspect the property...well crap eh!....anyone want a donkeyor two....
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  #196  
Old 10-22-2020, 05:35 PM
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Just awesome.

Part of a major highway leading to the international airport in Victoria and the BC ferries will be closed for an hour to protest something that is over 5000 km away. Same group of people who closed the highway because of a pipeline to Vancouver. I just don't get how local law enforcement is okay with this. Setting up detours? How about not letting a group of people shut down a highway.


https://www.peninsulanewsreview.com/...demonstration/
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  #197  
Old 10-22-2020, 05:42 PM
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sorry 58 and Ken
No not at all, just making a point. No need to apologize
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #198  
Old 10-23-2020, 07:04 AM
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Just awesome.

Part of a major highway leading to the international airport in Victoria and the BC ferries will be closed for an hour to protest something that is over 5000 km away. Same group of people who closed the highway because of a pipeline to Vancouver. I just don't get how local law enforcement is okay with this. Setting up detours? How about not letting a group of people shut down a highway.


https://www.peninsulanewsreview.com/...demonstration/
Yup......the troops with boots on the ground are just following orders....but I agree with you this bs needs to stop.....if I got all,worked up and set up a blockade over something my butt would be in cuffs and sitting in a cell for a little time out for being an idiot.....rightfully so!
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  #199  
Old 10-23-2020, 07:36 AM
KinAlberta KinAlberta is offline
 
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i find it funny how Some people like to tell land owners what they can do or cant do on there land
I’d love to find out what exactly the King’s representatives and the chiefs and elders said during treaty negotiations. Hard to imagine first nations being told that they wouldn't be sharing the land and its resources.

The immigrants have done pretty well. Individual property rights plus
literally trillions of dollars in benefits received from the land and its resource depletion.

That said, a friend’s family were crofters forced out of their scottish homes and brought to Canada in the 1800s and placed in debt to the same landlord who had access to the vast acreage in Canada. Essentially refugees. She was already quite wealthy. Hundreds of millions in wealth in todays dollars.

Quote:
“ on the lower estimate equivalent to £203,000,000 in 2019.”

“ Known for her stance against Catholicism, she played a leading role in the Highland Clearances as she continued the clearances initiated by her father-in-law.[7] Many crofters on her lands were re-settled to the North West territories of Regina and Wapella in Canada, possibly due to the shares she held in the Canadian Pacific Railway.[1]”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Gordon_Cathcart
Everyone should read about how much Lord Selkirk paid for his land.

Last edited by KinAlberta; 10-23-2020 at 07:45 AM.
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  #200  
Old 10-23-2020, 12:25 PM
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I was born in 1954, long after the buffalo were gone.

I have seen a profound drop in the numbers of many species. Moose, Fish, even Ducks.

Certain wildlife populations may have increased but many have been devastated by modern farming practices and habitat loss.

I don't get that from research, I get that from hands on, boots on the ground observation.

There is plenty of research out there that was done in the library, not in the field.

But you are right about unregulated hunting, at least with modern equipment. That is not sustainable and in fact is why we have conservation laws.

1954 was after two mass predator poisoning campaigns. I’m willing to bet there were more moose in the North Peace in 1954 than there was in 1900. If the moose population has decreased since then, I doubt that habitat loss is the problem as they are thriving on the farmland in eastern Alberta. There are no moose in many areas of Alberta that haven’t seen a tire track for 40 years.

Didn’t the government increase the limit on Snow geese to 50/day because the tundra can’t take the strain anymore? That suggests to me that the goose population (and likely duck) has benefitted from how humans have altered their habitat by increasing the food supply.


Please provide some examples of species that are in decline due to modern farming practices.

I’ve been going on mountain pack trips since I was 13 and ranched in the Peace Country for 15 years, so I also have some boots on the ground experience to go along with my research.
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  #201  
Old 10-23-2020, 09:23 PM
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1954 was after two mass predator poisoning campaigns. I’m willing to bet there were more moose in the North Peace in 1954 than there was in 1900. If the moose population has decreased since then, I doubt that habitat loss is the problem as they are thriving on the farmland in eastern Alberta. There are no moose in many areas of Alberta that haven’t seen a tire track for 40 years.

Didn’t the government increase the limit on Snow geese to 50/day because the tundra can’t take the strain anymore? That suggests to me that the goose population (and likely duck) has benefitted from how humans have altered their habitat by increasing the food supply.


Please provide some examples of species that are in decline due to modern farming practices.

I’ve been going on mountain pack trips since I was 13 and ranched in the Peace Country for 15 years, so I also have some boots on the ground experience to go along with my research.
Species in decline due to modern farming practices?
You’re joking right? You don’t think any species have been affected by modern farming?

Have you been around Taber? There’s barely a blade of native grass left.
How could entire species not be affected ?
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  #202  
Old 10-24-2020, 01:14 AM
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Species in decline due to modern farming practices?
You’re joking right? You don’t think any species have been affected by modern farming?

Have you been around Taber? There’s barely a blade of native grass left.
How could entire species not be affected ?
Exactly!

Some have benefited, some have lost big time.

I was shocked to find there are more Moose per square mile east of Hwy 2 then there is in the whole Peace River district. But the Moose aren't a species that have gained or lost due to farming practices or habitat loss.

Their decline has a lot more to do with Wolf populations and hunting pressure then anything else.

But Ducks and Sharp tailed grouse both lost big time due to modern farming practices and habitat loss.

There is never one thing that leads to a population increase or decline as some seem to think. It's always many factors, but a single factor can be the pivotal factor.
Habitat loss and farming practices are two common pivotal factors.

I find it amazing how little some hunters seem to know.

To think that habitat loss is never a factor is unimaginable to me.

All one has to do is count the birds and animals in one field on any day of the year and then count the birds and animals on the same size area of unchanged bush country to see there is no comparison.

The patch of bush will always have many times the number of species and many times the total number then any field under cultivation.

I think people look at a patch of bush as they walk through it and think, there is nothing here. They don't see the ten rabbits sleeping under dead falls and in fern thickets. They don't see the nest hole in the tree next to them or the Warblers nest high in the tree above them.
They don't see the Coyote Den in the hill or the Vole tunnels under the grass.

They are surrounded by dozens or even hundreds of living creatures and they don't see a thing, because those creatures have learned to stay out of sight when anything big is in the area.

But out in the field where there is no where to hide, they see the one bird, or the Coyote and they think there is more life in that field then in the bush they just walked through.

To see what's really there one has to spend hours and hours sitting, watching and listening not for one day, but again and again over years.

I have done that. I started doing that over 55 years ago and still do it today.
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  #203  
Old 10-24-2020, 04:18 AM
Wendigo Wendigo is offline
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Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
Exactly!

Some have benefited, some have lost big time.

I was shocked to find there are more Moose per square mile east of Hwy 2 then there is in the whole Peace River district. But the Moose aren't a species that have gained or lost due to farming practices or habitat loss.

Their decline has a lot more to do with Wolf populations and hunting pressure then anything else.

But Ducks and Sharp tailed grouse both lost big time due to modern farming practices and habitat loss.

There is never one thing that leads to a population increase or decline as some seem to think. It's always many factors, but a single factor can be the pivotal factor.
Habitat loss and farming practices are two common pivotal factors.

I find it amazing how little some hunters seem to know.

To think that habitat loss is never a factor is unimaginable to me.

All one has to do is count the birds and animals in one field on any day of the year and then count the birds and animals on the same size area of unchanged bush country to see there is no comparison.

The patch of bush will always have many times the number of species and many times the total number then any field under cultivation.

I think people look at a patch of bush as they walk through it and think, there is nothing here. They don't see the ten rabbits sleeping under dead falls and in fern thickets. They don't see the nest hole in the tree next to them or the Warblers nest high in the tree above them.
They don't see the Coyote Den in the hill or the Vole tunnels under the grass.

They are surrounded by dozens or even hundreds of living creatures and they don't see a thing, because those creatures have learned to stay out of sight when anything big is in the area.

But out in the field where there is no where to hide, they see the one bird, or the Coyote and they think there is more life in that field then in the bush they just walked through.

To see what's really there one has to spend hours and hours sitting, watching and listening not for one day, but again and again over years.

I have done that. I started doing that over 55 years ago and still do it today.
Remember what Alberta looked like 110 years ago.
Almost barren of trees sooo that theory is out the window
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  #204  
Old 10-24-2020, 05:04 AM
Sundog57 Sundog57 is online now
 
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[QUOTE=KinAlberta;4253759]I’d love to find out what exactly the King’s representatives and the chiefs and elders said during treaty negotiations. Hard to imagine first nations being told that they wouldn't be sharing the land and its resources.

Read this:
https://www.amazon.ca/Treaties-India...3537211&sr=8-1

Morris was appalled by the behaviour of MacDonald and his government who in his opinion immediately breached the terms of the treaties that he had negotiated in good faith.
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  #205  
Old 10-24-2020, 06:11 AM
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Remember what Alberta looked like 110 years ago.
Almost barren of trees sooo that theory is out the window
I recall hearing the area between Edmonton and grande prairie was basically a prairie.
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  #206  
Old 10-24-2020, 07:02 AM
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Remember what Alberta looked like 110 years ago.
Almost barren of trees sooo that theory is out the window
No I don't. But I doubt you do either.

When my dad came north in 1933 almost 90 years ago, he found more trees around Edmonton area then there is now. Or at least that is what he said.

I doubt those forests grew up in only 20 years.

From what he and others described, North of Slave lake was all forest back then.

I'm told that is why the south was settled long before the north. It seems that back then heavy equipment needed for clearing forest for farm development was in short supply and too expensive for most homesteaders.

So there goes that theory.
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  #207  
Old 10-24-2020, 07:15 AM
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I recall hearing the area between Edmonton and grande prairie was basically a prairie.
I heard there were open areas which settlers often call prairies throughout central and southern Alberta. There was even a few in the Peace River area.

The only one I know anything about was called Keg River prairie and it was just south of what we now call Keg River.
From dad's and others description of that "Prairie" it was several hundred acres of grassland surrounded by Boreal forest. Not at all what the word Prairie would conjure up in one's mind today.

Ever hear of the Wisp Fire? Also known as the Chinchaga Fire.

It was the largest fire in Alberta's history and it happened in 1950.
That's 70 years ago.
Clearly there was a lot of forest north of Edmonton back then or there would have never been a Chinchaga fire.
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  #208  
Old 10-24-2020, 07:26 AM
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I heard there were open areas which settlers often call prairies throughout central and southern Alberta. There was even a few in the Peace River area.

The only one I know anything about was called Keg River prairie and it was just south of what we now call Keg River.
From dad's and others description of that "Prairie" it was several hundred acres of grassland surrounded by Boreal forest. Not at all what the word Prairie would conjure up in one's mind today.

Ever hear of the Wisp Fire? Also known as the Chinchaga Fire.

It was the largest fire in Alberta's history and it happened in 1950.
That's 70 years ago.
Clearly there was a lot of forest north of Edmonton back then or there would have never been a Chinchaga fire.
Yes JT I’ve heard of it. As I’m from there. But I was referring to a large area between Edmonton and G.P.
Can’t remember where I read the info.
If anyone would know it’s redbullets. Maybe he knows.
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  #209  
Old 10-24-2020, 07:35 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is online now
 
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My brother had a book on all the homesteads in Peace Country. They changed owners many times as people gave up on to much work to Clear the large spruce trees. Found some quarters that had father and uncles owned. He asked Dad why they gave up on those quarters. He said " Ken did you see the size of the spruce trees on that quarter"
Know of another family gave up Spruce quarter by Edmonton and went to Camrose where their were small poplar trees and a few open meadows for their cows.
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  #210  
Old 10-24-2020, 07:39 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is online now
 
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The Chinchaga fire burned all summer from BC to almost Sask. The skys were black and people in New York complained about the smoke, chickens went to sleep in daytime.
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