If you were buying a bird gun today..

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Pioneer2

Went and stretched the 28ga to 3"

Really!!!!!!

That's nuts! Just how popular is 28 gauge anyway?

20 gauge is on the way to oblivion, so is 16 gauge. These days it seems everyone wants 3 1/2" 12 gauge or 10 gauge shotguns.

Wow am I ever out of touch with what is happening in gun circles.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Pioneer2

Went and stretched the 28ga to 3"

Another marketing gimmick, but I don't see it catching on. If you think that you need a 3" 28 gauge, better off just to go to to a 20 gauge.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I do agree with the last half of your post, but not the first.

I've heard that many times and for years I believed it.
Now I'm not so sure it's true.

My go to shotgun is a Mossberg 16 gauge 2 3/4" bolt action.

I bring down Geese with it as far out as I ever did with lead shot and as far out as friends using 3 1/2" semi autos.

The reason that is the case can be found in ballistic comparisons between lead and steel shot.



Velocity differences of steel versus lead at 40 yards are negotiable these days, due to higher initial velocity of recent offerings and larger shot size typically used with steel shot.

In this chart, from Edward Lowry, a comparison between lead #2 shot and Steel #2 shot shows only a 18fps differance at 30 yards and 48fps at 60 yards.



Typical muzzle velocities back in the lead shot era was in the neighborhood of 1400fps
Today's steel shot loads generally run 1550fps or more.

#2 Black Cloud loads have a published muzzle velocity of 1635fps

That bottom chart that shows the velocity at each range, only goes to 150feet, which is 50 yards.

The important data is the difference in energy, where lead has a huge advantage, 4.9 vs 2.6 at 60 yards.

[M.C. Gusto]

Keep you SX3, theyre awesome guns.

3.5 shells.................practice shooting more.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

That bottom chart that shows the velocity at each range, only goes to 150feet, which is 50 yards.

The important data is the difference in energy, where lead has a huge advantage, 4.9 vs 2.6 at 60 yards.

Opps, I missed that. Old age creeping up on me. That's my story an I'm stikin to it!

Me -

Correct also on energy at 60 yards.

but if one factors in the larger shot size commonly chosen for steel shot, there is much less difference.

For example, if one compares steel BBs to #2 lead shot, a common change-up, steel actually has superior ballistics in that department.

Still, I was comparing #2 lead to #2 steel so you are correct.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Opps, I missed that. Old age creeping up on me. That's my story an I'm stikin to it!

Me -

Correct also on energy at 60 yards.

but if one factors in the larger shot size commonly chosen for steel shot, there is much less difference.

For example, if one compares steel BBs to #2 lead shot, a common change-up, steel actually has superior ballistics in that department.

Still, I was comparing #2 lead to #2 steel so you are correct.

The problem with stepping up to BB steel, is that the pattern density is only about 60% of #2, so you will put a lot less pellets into the vitals. And given that the standard 3" steel shotshell only holds 1-1/8 to 1-1/4 ounces, while the 3" lead loads are typically 1-3/4 ounce to 1-7/8 ounce, a 3" lead load of #2 will contain more pellets than a 3" steel load of BB, so while the energy per pellet is similar, you will put more lead #2 into the vitals. So the advantage is still with lead shot.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The problem with stepping up to BB steel, is that the pattern density is only about 60% of #2, so you will put a lot less pellets into the vitals. And given that the standard 3" steel shotshell only holds 1-1/8 to 1-1/4 ounces, while the 3" lead loads are typically 1-3/4 ounce to 1-7/8 ounce, a 3" lead load of #2 will contain more pellets than a 3" steel load of BB, so while the energy per pellet is similar, you will put more lead #2 into the vitals. So the advantage is still with lead shot.

Wouldn't that be countered by the tighter pattern claimed for Steel?

I don't know. All I know is that steel seems to work as well for me as lead did.

To be fair though, that may have more to do with the years of practice gained since lead was abolished then in the performance of the shot used.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Wouldn't that be countered by the tighter pattern claimed for Steel?

I don't know. All I know is that steel seems to work as well for me as lead did.

To be fair though, that may have more to do with the years of practice gained since lead was abolished then in the performance of the shot used.

You use different choke constructions for steel, but you end up with similar patterns, so that isn't a factor. The denser shot is superior, with the new TSS shot being the ultimate right now, but the cost is so high at this time, about the only people that are using it, is turkey hunters. But if we could legally go back to lead for waterfowl , with today's technology , most people would go back to lead immediately.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You use different choke constructions for steel, but you end up with similar patterns, so that isn't a factor. The denser shot is superior, with the new TSS shot being the ultimate right now, but the cost is so high at this time, about the only people that are using it, is turkey hunters. But if we could legally go back to lead for waterfowl , with today's technology , most people would go back to lead immediately.

I expect you are right about that.

I have to say, this discussion has been informative and enjoyable.

Keep your powder dry. Best of luck to you.