Dumb question

[densa44]

My background is in health administration, and if we were having a death per day from any disease, Lassa fever, Aids, Syphilis, yellow fever etc. Heaven and earth would be moved to get it under control. All I see with this opioid crisis is arguing over the stats, how many are dyeing.

Who are the victims and why is the response so tepid?

Where are the drugs coming from? Are we trying our best to stop it?

I'm sure our younger members will just shake their heads but in my generation (very old) I don't know any victims.

Thx.

[EZM]

True.

So sad to see.

This is self inflicted wound. The doctors here in North America are responsible for prescribing almost 50% of the world's opioid drugs to a population of less than 2%. (we prescribe 25 times the amount of drugs compared to any other country here in Canada and the US).

I also believe this is precisely why there are so many mass shootings - it's not because of guns - it's because of drugs and mental health issues.

Sad.

[bat119]

My own theory is the criminals that were growing and selling pot that have been put out of business started selling hard drugs.

[Trochu]

I'll dip my toe in. I know this can be a sensitive topic and everyone has their own story, but I feel the generalization is that it's self induced. Kind of like how people have more sympathy for the 5 year old who is killed in a car accident than the victims on the Titan.

[nelsonob1]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I'll dip my toe in. I know this can be a sensitive topic and everyone has their own story, but I feel the generalization is that it's self induced. Kind of like how people have more sympathy for the 5 year old who is killed in a car accident than the victims on the Titan.

I think you got the whole leg in there...

Self induced like bald tires, diet, jobs with high stress, smoking, drinking, watching to much TV, volunteering to be a mod.

[3blade]

Some inside experience in this one

Source - largely commercial labs in China.
Transport - international organized crime.
Stopping it - nearly impossible with the volume of shipments, and ports/politicians being controlled by organized crime

Victims - unfortunately anyone who buys on the street. It’s in everything, to make supplies more addictive. Many are heroin/oxy users needing a stronger fix seeking it out, but it can and does kill kids on their first try of any street drug.

“Harm reduction” - ineffective, but volumes can be written and debated on that one.

Solution - none on the horizon.

It’s worth remembering that our population is much larger therefore there are more of every group, including drug users. I don’t think it would be possible to know if drug use increase has been proportional to population increase. Certainly alcohol and mushrooms have been killing people for thousands of years but almost never made the news. And the fact that we now have news, instant communication, statistics.

[esher]

Originally Posted by nelsonob1

I think you got the whole leg in there...

Self induced like bald tires, diet, jobs with high stress, smoking, drinking, watching to much TV, volunteering to be a mod.

Dont smoke, not a mod, something needs to eventually kill me.

[esher]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Some inside experience in this one

Source - largely commercial labs in China.
Transport - international organized crime.
Stopping it - nearly impossible with the volume of shipments, and ports/politicians being controlled by organized crime

Victims - unfortunately anyone who buys on the street. It’s in everything, to make supplies more addictive. Many are heroin/oxy users needing a stronger fix seeking it out, but it can and does kill kids on their first try of any street drug.

“Harm reduction” - ineffective, but volumes can be written and debated on that one.

Solution - none on the horizon.

It’s worth remembering that our population is much larger therefore there are more of every group, including drug users. I don’t think it would be possible to know if drug use increase has been proportional to population increase. Certainly alcohol and mushrooms have been killing people for thousands of years but almost never made the news. And the fact that we now have news, instant communication, statistics.

I dont understand the mentality using such crap, whats wrong with people?

[20shadow05]

The above from 3blade is dead on.

And harm reduction is complex and is not a single issue.

Also, Covid and inflation has not been kind to those that were on the edges or marginalized. Many more people homeless, under or unemployed and select street drugs are incredibly cheap.

Take meth, which is a stimulant. Often homeless people use, especially during winter, as it keeps you awake and walking (as opposed to falling asleep and freezing to death) as well as decreases appetite, which if you have no food, helps. Diminishing return as the more meth you use, the less effect it has.

No easy answers.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by esher

I dont understand the mentality using such crap, whats wrong with people?

Oxy addiction, starting from legitimate treatment for injuries. Mental illness from messed up neurotransmitter production. PTSD. Plain old boredom and weakness. Curiosity. Lack of education. Lack of consequences for misbehavior. Human trafficking, keeps the slaves more controllable and forgetful. Addicted from birth because mom was a user. The list goes on, and gets stranger and sadder the more you look. I don’t condone or condemn. Consequences follow actions, such is life for everyone.

Gonna leave it there, because of work related privacy concerns and I don’t feel like reliving any more of this.

[Pheasantchaser]

Originally Posted by densa44

My background is in health administration, and if we were having a death per day from any disease, Lassa fever, Aids, Syphilis, yellow fever etc. Heaven and earth would be moved to get it under control. All I see with this opioid crisis is arguing over the stats, how many are dyeing.

Who are the victims and why is the response so tepid?

Where are the drugs coming from? Are we trying our best to stop it?

I'm sure our younger members will just shake their heads but in my generation (very old) I don't know any victims.

Thx.

Very good, genuine questions on your part.

Addiction is a medical disease...no one hops out of his/her bed in the morning and decides to become addicted (any drug of your choice...meth, fentanyl, cocaine, alcohol...). Similarly, no one hops out of bed and decides to be diabetic, suffering from heart disease, obesity, or have a stroke...

We're simply overwhelmed.

[jetboat175]

You might be thinking its just a stat until you have a friend or family involved. My daughter had rheumatoid arthritis and was doing fine until she had a flair up. She went to a pain management clinic with our support to help her deal with with pain. This is a true story, she never seen a pain therapist but got prescribed oxy condine, she ended up with an opiod dependency, the wife and I put her through rehab then she went home and lost custody of her daughter and separated. She is still in the downwards spiral.....

[Grizzly Adams1]

I think it's prevalent because we've come to accept it and have given up fighting it. Naloxone kits for general distribution, like Covid test kits ??

https://www.albertahealthservices.ca...page15586.aspx

Grizz

[6.5 shooter]

The "Medical" profession is/are the biggest drug dealers. There is no money in curing people, but huge money in prescription drugs. What they are selling you is a lie. The Government and the big pharma are not your friends. Much like big tobacco and alcohol. These four, kill more in a day, then wars do in a decade.

Follow the money always follow the money!

[DiabeticKripple]

I think more needs to be done to stop people from getting the drugs/hooked on them in the first place.

Treating the people after the OD seems backwards to me when we should be focusing on stopping the supply and the underlying issues that push people to addiction in the first place.

[esher]

Originally Posted by jetboat175

You might be thinking its just a stat until you have a friend or family involved. My daughter had rheumatoid arthritis and was doing fine until she had a flair up. She went to a pain management clinic with our support to help her deal with with pain. This is a true story, she never seen a pain therapist but got prescribed oxy condine, she ended up with an opiod dependency, the wife and I put her through rehab then she went home and lost custody of her daughter and separated. She is still in the downwards spiral.....

That this started at a pain clinic is just so wrong. I always said there is a kickback on meds.

[Big Sky]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Source - largely commercial labs in China.

Originally Posted by Pheasantchaser

We're simply overwhelmed.

I think that's the plan.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by jetboat175

You might be thinking its just a stat until you have a friend or family involved. My daughter had rheumatoid arthritis and was doing fine until she had a flair up. She went to a pain management clinic with our support to help her deal with with pain. This is a true story, she never seen a pain therapist but got prescribed oxy condine, she ended up with an opiod dependency, the wife and I put her through rehab then she went home and lost custody of her daughter and separated. She is still in the downwards spiral.....

I have heard a lot of similar stories to this. Most common seems to be they were prescribed an opioid for pain after being injured in a car accident

There was a period it seemed if you seen a Dr for a headache you could get an OxyContin prescription. About 20 years ago seemed the worst and I disowned many friends over this crap

Sadly it seems once they reach a certain point very few turn it around and are basically lost.

[Sundancefisher]

Question of what causes people to use drugs to begin with needs to be addressed.

Then education on hazards of drugs needs to be drilled into kids in schools.

Free drugs, room, and board isn’t helping.

Treatment help needs to be there. Stronger efforts to stop these vulnerable people from stealing and robbing needs to happen.

Coddling drug users by calling them vulnerable people takes the stigma away and legitimizes usage.

Having zero consequences of illicit drug use does not discourage use.

Normalizing drug use has not helped anywheres.

If China is a main supplier then something needs to happen. They are supposed to be tough on drugs.

[densa44]

I just read that indigenous people are 7 times more likely to die from this than other populations. The natives are saying that this is an emergency and the need help.
I get that there is no easy cure, but why are the natives so vulnerable to drug addiction? Where are they getting this stuff? Would it help to make it harder to prescribe?
Would more mental health support help?

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by densa44

I just read that indigenous people are 7 times more likely to die from this than other populations. The natives are saying that this is an emergency and the need help.
I get that there is no easy cure, but why are the natives so vulnerable to drug addiction? Where are they getting this stuff? Would it help to make it harder to prescribe?
Would more mental health support help?

Trafficking is rampant on reserves, driven by their own, you dare not say, it's a racist issue. Support can only go so far, YOU have to deal with it. I would guess, like most of our population, they have no real sense of purpose in Life , drugs and alcohol fill the void.

Grizz

[PartTimeHunter]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

The "Medical" profession is/are the biggest drug dealers. There is no money in curing people, but huge money in prescription drugs. What they are selling you is a lie. The Government and the big pharma are not your friends. Much like big tobacco and alcohol. These four, kill more in a day, then wars do in a decade.

Follow the money always follow the money!

100% There is no money in a cure. That is something to remember when being given a prescription that is for a medium to long term issue. Most drugs only mask the problem, they don't fix it. Once they have you on something long term and you develop an issue leading from that - never fear there is a drug to work on that too! And the cycle never ends.
I had this go round with my doctor years ago when he prescribed a very high dose of ibuprofen (almost max daily allowed) for arthritis. I asked him about the long term effects after doing some reading on my own. His reply was that yes it could/would lead to other issues but they had pills to counteract them. I stopped taking the pills

[elkhunter11]

The authorities don't seem to be interested in stopping drug trafficking, the governments are handing out drugs, and becoming traffickers themselves. An addicted population is only concerned about their next fix, they don't care about much else, so they are easier to control.

[fishtank]

It’s like climate change……..and carbon tax is the solution.

[Jamie Black R/T]

Originally Posted by densa44

Dumb question

$$$$$$$

Follow it.

The answer you seek is there.

[Drewski Canuck]

Problem is that Cocaine used to be the standard for getting high. The hard core users were on heroin, which was also expensive.

Then along came Crack Cocaine which was a high but at a discounted price.

Then came along Crystal Meth which is cheap and very high, if you cannot get Fentanyl.

The Users are not satisfied until they are brought to a near death state, and sometimes a very dead state. They do not care of the consequences, being death. In the mean time the brain damage is so severe that most long term users are truly walking dead.

Everyone for the last 30 years has heard of the consequences of death. Most people respect death and stay away from street drugs. Some, and it is a small percentage, simply do not care.

Do you see any Addicts protesting their self inflicted suffering at Parliament or the Legislature Building demanding the Government do something about them selves?

No.

Why Not?

Because, they do not care about the very real and obvious consequences: Death.

So what difference will the rest of us make to the few who enjoy flirting with death each time that they try to bring themselves to death? None.

Protest all you want. Demand Action all you want. Declare a health care state of Emergency all you want. It will make no difference. The only person who can stop the consequences are the ones who continue to challenge the consequences.

And those people just don't care about consequences. So tell those who try and make the rest of us feel bad about the few users who don't ever feel bad about their actions to simply accept that it is the user's choice and their consequences.


Drewski

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

There was a period it seemed if you seen a Dr for a headache you could get an OxyContin prescription. About 20 years ago seemed the worst and I disowned many friends over this crap

When I was younger I recall that there were certain doctors that would hand out Valium for pretty much anything. The word on the street was, "oh, go see Dr. So-and-so, he'll prescribe you some Valium, and you'll feel much better..."

When I discovered that, it sure helped me understand why a lot of the older ladies in our circle were a bit loopy...

[trailraat]

Unfortunately, this like most societal issues has become polarized. Either its harm-reduction (the poor addicts), or the lock them up mentality. The reality is both methods are needed. We need to have hard conversations around individual rights/mental health rather than name callling.

In our society, which has rejected the supernatural, the only reason to remain alive is to enjoy the life you have. If your life sucks (see reserves) the easiest way to enjoy that ultimately meaningless life is drugs. What hope do you offer a broken person with a broken family who has found the easiest way to numb the pain before they turn into a pile of dust that is stronger than the pull of the drug?

If an addict is using to numb the pain, all that harm reduction is going to do is keep them alive in their zombie state for an extended period of time. They aren't going to seek out help because the drug is a far easier escape. How do you bring reality to someone in this situation without restricting their freedoms - and if you are successful in rescuing someone from this situation what keeps them from turning back to their drugs?

If they are a chronic criminal who repeatedly re-offends - why are we releasing them. They've indicated through their behaviour that they have no interest in being rehabilitated.

It's ironic that we live in a society where doctor assisted suicided for mentally ill people is a court protected right, and yet for some reason society also believes that we have to do everything possible to prevent a mentally ill people who are actively trying to kill themselves with drugs from accomplishing that task.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Problem is that Cocaine used to be the standard for getting high. The hard core users were on heroin, which was also expensive.

Then along came Crack Cocaine which was a high but at a discounted price.

Then came along Crystal Meth which is cheap and very high, if you cannot get Fentanyl.

The Users are not satisfied until they are brought to a near death state, and sometimes a very dead state. They do not care of the consequences, being death. In the mean time the brain damage is so severe that most long term users are truly walking dead.

Everyone for the last 30 years has heard of the consequences of death. Most people respect death and stay away from street drugs. Some, and it is a small percentage, simply do not care.

Do you see any Addicts protesting their self inflicted suffering at Parliament or the Legislature Building demanding the Government do something about them selves?

No.

Why Not?

Because, they do not care about the very real and obvious consequences: Death.

So what difference will the rest of us make to the few who enjoy flirting with death each time that they try to bring themselves to death? None.

Protest all you want. Demand Action all you want. Declare a health care state of Emergency all you want. It will make no difference. The only person who can stop the consequences are the ones who continue to challenge the consequences.

And those people just don't care about consequences. So tell those who try and make the rest of us feel bad about the few users who don't ever feel bad about their actions to simply accept that it is the user's choice and their consequences.


Drewski

Well well well… to me the answer is pretty simple- if they don’t care- why should we? If you are dumb enough to shoot up this chemicals uNtil you drop dead- let them be! It’s called natural selection. No more ambulance rides for those. Save the ambulances for people who really need them.
No more free drugs. Use the money instead to provide people with insulin or other life saving meds that they can’t afford…
I have never seen any diabetic going on a killing or robbery spree in down town…
I’m sick and tired looking at those zombies on the streets. My daughter works in downtown, she is 100lb with all her bags etc. she is scared walking those pedways. I put a full size can of bear spray in her bag. And showed her how to take out the knee…

[Phil McCracken]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Question of what causes people to use drugs to begin with needs to be addressed.

Then education on hazards of drugs needs to be drilled into kids in schools.

Free drugs, room, and board isn’t helping.

Treatment help needs to be there. Stronger efforts to stop these vulnerable people from stealing and robbing needs to happen.

Coddling drug users by calling them vulnerable people takes the stigma away and legitimizes usage.

Having zero consequences of illicit drug use does not discourage use.

Normalizing drug use has not helped anywheres.

If China is a main supplier then something needs to happen. They are supposed to be tough on drugs.

In regards to "education", been around for the past decades...not working.

In regards to treatment...welcome to all the open drug sites we are now seeing.

In regards to China? We all know this but our sparkle socks PM loves these guys, along with Pedo Joe. So what is the real problem here?

Just saying...