What can Alberta do if BC stops pipeline progress?

[Don K]

Originally Posted by fisherpeak

i am sick about the election.before you crap on all of b.c. Remember that all the lgbtq treehugging, save the bears and whales a-holes live in the lower wasteland.most of this great province hate those people.but they have the population. Sure i`ll ride my bicycle to work with my chainsaw over my shoulder for 60 miles each way. Jeez
I`d be a happy man if we had a 9.8 earth quake that wiped out everything from hope to the coast.

👍🏻

[coastalhunter]

Originally Posted by bergman

Agreed. Our sympathy's.
But it doesn't mean that Alberta is going to roll over on this one, even though the federal Liberal's certainly will.

I think Alberta will use it's weight; Notley has to to stay in power, and that's what it's all about.

The Alberta NDP will be fighting BC NDP, and I wouldn't be surprised if Alberta NDP breaks away from the NDP 'brand'. The federal NDP will sit on the sidelines unless there is such a break at which point condemnation will be swift and sure. But Alberta really holds the cards here - our oil companies would like ocean access, but have survived decades without it. Our oil companies would like prices in line with west texas or brent crude, but can survive without it. BC would like to live without Alberta oil, but they cannot survive without it.

Here's to a quick BC non-confidence vote

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for putting the pressure on, just don't paint us with the same brush. Most people that vote in these provincial governments are bag-lickers from back east who moved here "because it's beautiful"

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by The Cook

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a BC liberal similar to an AB conservative? Like what other choice did you folks have?

The BC Liberals evolved from the Social Credit Party quite some time ago here. Although right of center, they certainly are not "Liberal".

Left of center of course we have the NDP. The Greens have always been a lunatic fringe sort of effort, until now when they hold the balance of power in their hands, thus becoming the latest belle of the ball.

The majority of voters had simply become quite sick of Crispy Clark's rather dictatorial methods of governing, combined with overt corruption that earmarked BC as the "Wild West" as far as politics go. She so enraged hunters by handing over up to 40% of big game allocations (think you folks have it bad in this regard? You have NOTHING to whine about!!) to the guides and outfitters most vowed to never vote for them again. That of course was after receiving numerous and lucrative bribes from the outfitter association in order to further their cause. Kind of well represents how Crispy et al operates...

Due to that, I would have never voted for her party myself had not the local candidate been a good buddy, a hunter directly involved with all sorts of conservation programs, and someone I felt was truly the right man for the job.

BC has always been a two-party system. So those that wanted to give the liberals a swift slap upside the head were left with little alternative. Most (I believe) were hoping for a liberal minority (and Crispy forced to resign). Unfortunately that is not what developed.

Originally Posted by BuckCuller

You should start up a new conservative based party in B.C.

There have been a couple of attempts to initiate a true conservative Party here. Were they to get their **** together, many believe they would be a strong performer. Alas, they are their own worst enemy thus far. Infighting, failure to appoint candidates of any real value, and lackadaisical responses to elections (such as this last) has cost them pretty much any credibility with the voting public. A shame, this province could REALLY use a decent alternative to the two pigs at the trough we currently feed.

The pipeline issue is one simply of politics. Striking out against the common man is both futile and immature. You can bet your sorry ass that the workers did not vote these idiots in, there is simply no reason to punish them for the foolish moves of the the politico's.

I imagine it will all get sorted out down the road. In the meantime, we certainly do live in interesting times both here in BC, and there in Alberta...

Cheers,
Nog

[Texican]

Wouldn't a second 'conservative' party simply split the right wing vote leaving the NDP the ruling majority, like we have in Alberta?

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

I am aware of where they want to put that twinning of the pipeline. THAT is half the problem. People don't want any more tanker traffic so close to all that soy product they store in Vancouver. The point was....why the hell pick such stupid routes and then try to get support for them?? Does Alberta not have even 1 engineer with some grey matter in his, or her, noggin?? Pick a route with very few city people, very few major salmon runs and viola it would be approved...but for some reason that is a difficult concept to swallow???

It has to be a port deep and safe enough to travel into with giant oil tankers or they risk another Exxon type spill. That is why they choose the places where they do. It actually is they safest routes they pick.

[CranePete]

Originally Posted by Fisherpeak

I am SICK about the election.Before you crap on all of B.C. remember that all the LGBTQ treehugging, save the bears and whales A-holes live in the lower wasteland.Most of this great province hate those people.But they have the population. Sure I`ll ride my bicycle to work with my chainsaw over my shoulder for 60 miles each way. Jeez
I`d be a happy man if we had a 9.8 earth quake that wiped out everything from Hope to the coast.

Hear, hear !! Well said !

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Stop sending crude and gasoline west. Charge huge tarrifs on train traffic to and through Alberta. Cut them off at the knees.

BW

I find the idea of halting oil products through the pipeline to the coast an interesting and possibly very effective way of proving a point. How quickly would that market be picked up by American oil ? Who knows. Cutting off train traffic would on the other hand would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Could you imagine no more shipment of Asian produced goods to Alberta Wallmarts ?? How about no grain shipments out ???
As with any argument you have to think long and hard before doing something

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

In answer to the question posed by the OP - You are seeing it.
Whine. And Cry. LOTS that is...



The problem being faced is that it will be the actual Provincial Government that blocks the construction. Sure, they might be a few protestors along the way, but they are little more than window dressing at this point...

Now before you kick into a diatribe of how the prov gov "can't do that", consider the massive number of permits (prov controlled) required to move the project forward. Then also consider the level of influence / encouragement of the prov gov over FN organizations over whose ground the line must cross.

Starting to get the picture??

Cheers,
Nog

Agree ++++++++

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Scott h

I find the idea of halting oil products through the pipeline to the coast an interesting and possibly very effective way of proving a point. How quickly would that market be picked up by American oil ? Who knows. Cutting off train traffic would on the other hand would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Could you imagine no more shipment of Asian produced goods to Alberta Wallmarts ?? How about no grain shipments out ???
As with any argument you have to think long and hard before doing something

Seattle has a huge port to ship containers through to points east of BC.
ALBERTA has the ability to cripple the BC economy. Sure they can get there gasoline and crude elsewhere, but do you think the USA left coast is going to build them a pipeline, or that the tree huggers want tankers in their ports off loading crude?

Maybe the lgbtq treehuggers should give some though before shutting down the twining of the KM pipeline.

BW

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Seattle has a huge port to ship containers through to points east of BC.
ALBERTA has the ability to cripple the BC economy. Sure they can get there gasoline and crude elsewhere, but do you think the USA left coast is going to build them a pipeline, or that the tree huggers want tankers in their ports off loading crude?

Maybe the lgbtq treehuggers should give some though before shutting down the twining of the KM pipeline.

BW

You've been smoking way to much BC bud if you think halting train traffic east and west wouldn't SCREW Alberta massively.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by honda610

Effective immediately all BC TRADES PEOPLE cannot use there province issued red seal journeyman liscence in Alberta. All BC residents will pay a 20 percent carbon levy from there wages to work in this province. Wanna vote retarded than pay.

You may surprised by how may Albertans work in BC........

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Fisherpeak

I am SICK about the election.Before you crap on all of B.C. remember that all the LGBTQ treehugging, save the bears and whales A-holes live in the lower wasteland.Most of this great province hate those people.But they have the population. Sure I`ll ride my bicycle to work with my chainsaw over my shoulder for 60 miles each way. Jeez
I`d be a happy man if we had a 9.8 earth quake that wiped out everything from Hope to the coast.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Kootenay area vote NDP ????

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

We don't need a wall.

We already have what's needed it's called a tap or a valve close it and stop all gasoline, diesel and crude to the coast. Do it today, and by July first they'll be agreeing to a pipeline!

Their shipping docks rail yards and Warehouse's will be plugged. People will be laid off and their economy will have tanked. They have an underbelly that will be exposed. Alberta will be well within its rights to do so. Do this and they'll be digging the trench to lay the pipe.

BW

That is the only idea that really makes sense. Timing however is imperative. Don't do it however until Horgan is front and center stage in office so that the public can actually see the results of their voting strategy.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Scott h

You've been smoking way to much BC bud if you think halting train traffic east and west wouldn't SCREW Alberta massively.

I don't smoke BC bud or any bud for that matter. Your reference alone shows you haven't got a clue how the negotiations with treehuggers needs to be played out. Pandering to these clowns won't get you anything. When they can't get their latte, they just might realize the error of their ways.

Shut off their fuel supply and close down one of the major industries they'll be begging for the pipeline

Ports could be set up in Calgary and Edmonton serviced by rail from Seattle. Plug the BC shipping docks cut off their diesel and like I said earlier they'll dig the trench for the KM pipeline.

Seattle has an underutilized port that could absorb the container traffic and hardly notice the volume uptick.

BW

[honda610]

I don't really care how many work in BRING CASH. as a whole I bet there are more bc guys flying to remote work sites and taking every dime home. Tax the hell out of em and cancel all non resident tags for residents of British Cannibus. I know alot of lotus land tree huggers who work in the heavy oil patch and play tree hugger when they get home to there idea of paradise. Don't worry those greens will get rid of the Grizzly hunt along with black bear hunting soon after there done cutting there own throats....enjoy the decline faster than us. We only have 2 years left.

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by honda610

I don't really care how many work in BRING CASH. as a whole I bet there are more bc guys flying to remote work sites and taking every dime home. Tax the hell out of em and cancel all non resident tags for residents of British Cannibus. I know alot of lotus land tree huggers who work in the heavy oil patch and play tree hugger when they get home to there idea of paradise. Don't worry those greens will get rid of the Grizzly hunt along with black bear hunting soon after there done cutting there own throats....enjoy the decline faster than us. We only have 2 years left.

Again, how would punishing people who likely didn't vote NDP or Green make any sense?

[338 Rules]

Originally Posted by Weedy1

Don't allow any Quinoa shipments to BC travel through Alberta. We could starve most of them inside of a week.

lmao, good one!

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Texican

Wouldn't a second 'conservative' party simply split the right wing vote leaving the NDP the ruling majority, like we have in Alberta?

Absolutely correct. BC conservatives ran in 10 ridings and siphoned off votes that would have otherwise gone to the BC Liberals. The NDP should be sending thank you cards to everyone that supported them.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by honda610

I don't really care how many work in BRING CASH. as a whole I bet there are more bc guys flying to remote work sites and taking every dime home. Tax the hell out of em and cancel all non resident tags for residents of British Cannibus. I know alot of lotus land tree huggers who work in the heavy oil patch and play tree hugger when they get home to there idea of paradise. Don't worry those greens will get rid of the Grizzly hunt along with black bear hunting soon after there done cutting there own throats....enjoy the decline faster than us. We only have 2 years left.

So then I guess the next step would be to quadruple the property tax on the tens of thousands of Albertans that owns BC property. Hopefully cooler heads will be making decisions on how to get this issue resolved.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

I don't smoke BC bud or any bud for that matter. Your reference alone shows you haven't got a clue how the negotiations with treehuggers needs to be played out. Pandering to these clowns won't get you anything. When they can't get their latte, they just might realize the error of their ways.

Shut off their fuel supply and close down one of the major industries they'll be begging for the pipeline

Ports could be set up in Calgary and Edmonton serviced by rail from Seattle. Plug the BC shipping docks cut off their diesel and like I said earlier they'll dig the trench for the KM pipeline.

Seattle has an underutilized port that could absorb the container traffic and hardly notice the volume uptick.

BW

You really don't understand just how much product gets shipped through the port of Vancouver do you????
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._Pacific_Ocean

[honda610]

Go for the higher taxes on Alberta's rich land owners.......
Then watch them all sell and leave. Didn't B.C just put a tax on all the foreign nationals buying in Vancouver

[fargineyesore]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

The BC Liberals evolved from the Social Credit Party quite some time ago here. Although right of center, they certainly are not "Liberal".

Left of center of course we have the NDP. The Greens have always been a lunatic fringe sort of effort, until now when they hold the balance of power in their hands, thus becoming the latest belle of the ball.

The majority of voters had simply become quite sick of Crispy Clark's rather dictatorial methods of governing, combined with overt corruption that earmarked BC as the "Wild West" as far as politics go. She so enraged hunters by handing over up to 40% of big game allocations (think you folks have it bad in this regard? You have NOTHING to whine about!!) to the guides and outfitters most vowed to never vote for them again. That of course was after receiving numerous and lucrative bribes from the outfitter association in order to further their cause. Kind of well represents how Crispy et al operates...

Due to that, I would have never voted for her party myself had not the local candidate been a good buddy, a hunter directly involved with all sorts of conservation programs, and someone I felt was truly the right man for the job.

BC has always been a two-party system. So those that wanted to give the liberals a swift slap upside the head were left with little alternative. Most (I believe) were hoping for a liberal minority (and Crispy forced to resign). Unfortunately that is not what developed.



There have been a couple of attempts to initiate a true conservative Party here. Were they to get their **** together, many believe they would be a strong performer. Alas, they are their own worst enemy thus far. Infighting, failure to appoint candidates of any real value, and lackadaisical responses to elections (such as this last) has cost them pretty much any credibility with the voting public. A shame, this province could REALLY use a decent alternative to the two pigs at the trough we currently feed.

The pipeline issue is one simply of politics. Striking out against the common man is both futile and immature. You can bet your sorry ass that the workers did not vote these idiots in, there is simply no reason to punish them for the foolish moves of the the politico's.

I imagine it will all get sorted out down the road. In the meantime, we certainly do live in interesting times both here in BC, and there in Alberta...

Cheers,
Nog

Don't disagree, we here in Alberta are feeling the shame of the NDP and most did not vote for them, our vote was split allowing them to come up the middle.

I agree don't punish all BCers for this, but this pipeline is needed here. What else do you guys suggest? Don't want to get into a border dispute with BC, really don't want to get into a dispute period.

People in both provinces have been allowing politicians and extremist environmental groups to divide them and we have to be smarter and not let that happen. People need to start making politicians lives MUCH harder.

They need to be called out when seen, just like Fildebrandt did to Wynne here.

Their cozy comfortable lives need to be upturned and they need to be made to pay the consequences of their decisions, because it's always us that pay for them, never them.

[densa44]

The government brings forward a bill to allow the pipeline. The Greens oppose the bill, enough Liberals support it and it passes and the government doesn't fall. That puts the greens back to the level of influence that their supporters deserve (15% of the electorate) and the world moves on.

This may be a BIG opportunity for Ms Notley, if this gets passed and she plays it right she could take the credit.

Oh BTW it would not be necessary for the B.C. Libs to cross the floor as in Alberta, they can just be absent for the vote. easy peasy.

[man of steel]

If you think this is a bad situation with the Greens holding the balance of power with 3 seats imagine what our governments (provincial and federal) would look like with Proportional Representation.

Always a minority government and the fringe parties always holding the balance of power. Scary.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by densa44

The government brings forward a bill to allow the pipeline. The Greens oppose the bill, enough Liberals support it and it passes and the government doesn't fall. That puts the greens back to the level of influence that their supporters deserve (15% of the electorate) and the world moves on.

This may be a BIG opportunity for Ms Notley, if this gets passed and she plays it right she could take the credit.

Oh BTW it would not be necessary for the B.C. Libs to cross the floor as in Alberta, they can just be absent for the vote. easy peasy.

The problem is that if the NDP form government they won't put forward that bill.
Horgan and his crew do not want the pipeline. Period.
The unions, milenials and housewives won this one. I'm afraid the province is going to go down and we'll probably take others down with us.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Seattle has a huge port to ship containers through to points east of BC.
ALBERTA has the ability to cripple the BC economy. Sure they can get there gasoline and crude elsewhere, but do you think the USA left coast is going to build them a pipeline, or that the tree huggers want tankers in their ports off loading crude?

Maybe the lgbtq treehuggers should give some though before shutting down the twining of the KM pipeline.

BW

Please drop the LGBT rants. It has nothing to do with the original post and is just a derail.

We need to address the political leverage in BC. The LGBT community is as diverse as AOF and likely these statements are very offensive to our LGBT AOF members.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Scott h

The problem is that if the NDP form government they won't put forward that bill.
Horgan and his crew do not want the pipeline. Period.
The unions, milenials and housewives won this one. I'm afraid the province is going to go down and we'll probably take others down with us.

My concern is that the NDP is one and the same provincially and federally.

Both the BC and AB NDP are controlled by the Feds in Manitoba.

So is it not possible the AB NDP are tickled pink that they can say they are trying but boo hoo...mean BC is blocking them.

So not our fault. Vote us in again?

Great scape goat IMHO.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Scott h

You really don't understand just how much product gets shipped through the port of Vancouver do you????
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._Pacific_Ocean

Oh yes I do. That's why stopping them from shipping would be a very effective method to getting the pipeline built.

Thanks for confirming my argument.

BW

[Big Grey Wolf]

No pipelines then last person leaving Alberta please shut off the lights, BC next when all trees are gone! What do miss-guided idiots think pay the bills in Canada.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Scott h

I find the idea of halting oil products through the pipeline to the coast an interesting and possibly very effective way of proving a point. How quickly would that market be picked up by American oil ? Who knows. Cutting off train traffic would on the other hand would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Could you imagine no more shipment of Asian produced goods to Alberta Wallmarts ?? How about no grain shipments out ???
As with any argument you have to think long and hard before doing something

I'm pretty sure that somebody high up in CP could figure out that instead of halting train traffic through BC, they make plans to deal with it. For instance, when they are hauling grain cars to BC, they slap an extra 2 or 3 tankers of diesel onto the train. Then they refuel at their yard in BC with the spare fuel they brought and carry on. Same with the shipping lanes. Hey we gotta drop off our load of Chinese-lead-paint-cribs in Vancouver then we will have to refuel in Seattle. The only thing hurting will be BC. (At that point)

Also, the US really isn't an exporter of oil. I know they exported 12 barrels a year or 2 ago to show they are a big player. But if they import billions of barrels from Canada and export 12 barrels; are they really an exporter? To replace the amount of product shipped to BC by pipeline right now would be impossible for the Americans. BC would be like lord of the flies inside of a month without AB oil. Everything would just, stop. Some resourceful few would carry on, but Vancouver would look like a war zone.