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  #1  
Old 12-18-2016, 06:08 PM
sjr sjr is offline
 
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Default World wide coal plants

EVERYONE IN ALBERTA NEEDS TO KNOW THIS….just backs up what we all are thinking about the NDP announcement….….


Here's Just a small sample of how many coal plants are out
there

Eu has 468 plants building 27 more for a total of 495
Turkey has 56 plants building 93 more total 149
South Africa has 79 building 24 more total 103
India has 589 building 446 more total 1036
Philippines has 19 building60 more total 79
South Korea has 58 building 26 more total 84
Japan has 90 building 45 more total 135
CHINA has 2363 building 1171 total 3534
……..But here comes the Alberta NDP to save the planet to shut down
our 5 plants ….
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2016, 06:12 PM
fargineyesore fargineyesore is offline
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Source? I want to send it to our MLA
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Old 12-18-2016, 06:15 PM
ak-71 ak-71 is offline
 
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We are taking a step in right direction, we can't just sit, do nothing for 10 years and hope it will get better, right? Somebody has to, who will take of Earth if not us?
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  #4  
Old 12-18-2016, 06:20 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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My mother used to say about following the crowd ... so if everybody is jumping off a cliff, will you follow?
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  #5  
Old 12-18-2016, 06:24 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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My mother used to say about following the crowd ... so if everybody is jumping off a cliff, will you follow?
And shutting down our coal generating plants and sending the workers to the unemployment line during a recession, is like jumping off of a cliff.
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  #6  
Old 12-18-2016, 06:38 PM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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Default And......What you won't here from the NDP.

Unless there really is unicorns, we are going to pay more for power one way or the other.



http://calgaryherald.com/business/en...-bucks-or-more

Varcoe: Alberta's power plan adds up to several billion bucks, or more

Question: How much is the province’s power plan going to cost Albertans?

Answer: A shocking amount.

Sorry I can’t give you a precise answer, because no one inside the Alberta legislature can provide an overall price tag yet, despite a month-long flurry of announcements surrounding the electricity market.

But it will begin with a B, as in billion — several billion dollars, or more.

“The whole plan, there are all kinds of added costs coming to Alberta,” says electricity consultant Gary Reynolds, former head of the province’s Balancing Pool.

“The monster has a lot of different tentacles.”

Just for fun, let’s start to tally the bucks that will flow out faster than electrons during a summer heat wave.

On Tuesday, as Justin Trudeau and Rachel Notley were meeting in Ottawa over pipeline approvals, the province brought forward legislation to backstop losses inside Alberta’s Balancing Pool.

The provincial agency has been burning through cash — about $70 million a month — this year, mainly because of the NDP government’s decision to hike its carbon levy on heavy greenhouse gas emitters.

That change inadvertently triggered an opt-out clause, letting utilities hand their unprofitable power purchase arrangements back to the Balancing Pool, which manages these PPAs.

To stem this problem, the Notley government has decided to provide a loan to the independent agency, which will pass its losses along to consumers through a monthly electricity bill charge.

No one in government will estimate the total forecast costs, saying that’s still being determined.

But here are a few hints.

On April Fool’s Day, the Balancing Pool’s board decided to liquidate its $700 million in investment holdings “in anticipation of the cash requirements associated with the PPA terminations.”

The agency will be out of money by the end of December, the province says. The $700 million will be gone.

Next year, the Balancing Pool will institute a 67-cent monthly charge for the average residential consumer to pay for the agency’s losses.

Well, 67 cents a month is nothing, right? Less than the price of a cup of coffee.

Wrong. Add up those costs for every household in Alberta for every month between 2017 and 2030.

And don’t forget, industrial or commercial businesses are responsible for about 80 per cent of Alberta’s power consumption. Their bills will go up much, much more.

The government says the annual charge to consumers will total $65 million next year, and is expected to continue on each year until 2030 around the same level.

By my math, that’s another $910 million paid by consumers over 14 years, on top of absorbing this year’s operating losses, most — but not all — of which are tied to the PPAs being tossed back.

The final bill for this mess will depend on several variables, such as future electricity prices and the ongoing settlement talks with Enmax over its outstanding PPAs.

“If forced to say what is the single number … of the Balancing Pool’s losses at the end of the day, after all the settlements, somewhere in the neighbourhood of $1 billion,” says University of Calgary economist Trevor Tombe.

Other analysts have higher numbers, but let’s move on to the government’s plan to subsidize renewable energy.

The NDP wants solar, wind, hydro and biomass to generate up to 30 per cent of Alberta’s electricity by 2030 as it reduces greenhouse gas emissions.

Again, the province won’t release its cost estimates, in part because Alberta hasn’t yet embarked on a competitive auction process for the renewable projects and doesn’t want to telegraph what it’s willing to pay.

But subsidies will be required.

Independent power consultant EDC Associates Ltd. conducted a study this fall that pegged the price tag between $4 billion to $8 billion by 2030. Payments after that period, until the year 2049, range between $5 billion and $15 billion.

“We haven’t changed our minds,” on the size of the subsidies, says EDC president Duane Reid-Carlson.

Then, there’s the bill unveiled by the province last week to retire all of the coal-fired power generation and compensate owners of plants that were supposed to operate past 2030: $1.36 billion.

Finally, we come to the province’s decision last week to cap electricity prices for consumers over a four-year period, starting next June.

If prices go above 6.8 cents per kilowatt hour, consumers on the regulated rate option will be sheltered from market volatility; the province must make up the difference, either through subsidies, hedges or some other mechanisms.

Based on its forecast of prices moving higher, EDC estimates the costs to the province will range between $250 million and $1 billion by 2021.

So where will all this money come from?

It will flow from a combination of consumer charges, the province’s levy on industrial greenhouse gas emitters and the carbon levy.

“It’s going to mean increased costs to us, either on our electric bill or through taxation,” warns Wildrose MLA Don MacIntyre.

So why do it?

Well, the Balancing Pool must pass along all losses or profits to consumers.

Compensation had to be paid to owners of coal-fired power plants or it would have crippled investor confidence.

Subsidies will be needed if the province wants to promote large amounts of renewable energy to replace coal, while the rate cap will shelter Albertans from potential price spikes.

The government insists these changes are necessary to lower emissions, green the grid and improve health outcomes for Albertans by stopping the burning of coal.

Energy Minister Marg McCuaig-Boyd insists the NDP inherited a volatile electricity system and the government is “making overdue changes” to protect consumers and draw future investment.

But when you add it all up, it’s still a whack of money — closing in on $7 billion on the low end, just from my estimate talking to experts, but likely much more.

“I don’t have any trouble with going to a lower carbon footprint … but let’s do it as cost-effectively and efficiently as we can,” says EDC’s Reid-Carlson.

“The biggest worry is you start to jam stuff in without thinking too much about it and that’s when unintended consequences happen. And unintended consequences always have a large cost to them.”

When you turn on the lights this evening, try not think about these unintended consequences in the years ahead.

It might keep you up all night — and that would use a lot more power.

Chris Varcoe is a Calgary Herald columnist.
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2016, 06:38 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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We need to get off coal, new technologies will create new jobs. Nobody said being responsible would be easy. There will be pain in the coal sector, but change is inevitable.
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Old 12-18-2016, 06:44 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
We need to get off coal, new technologies will create new jobs. Nobody said being responsible would be easy. There will be pain in the coal sector, but change is inevitable.
Yes we need to get off of coal, but smart people plan ahead, and they have alternative plans in place to replace the coal industry, they don't rush into these things like our government is doing. Ontario tried to rush into green power, and look where it got them.
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Old 12-18-2016, 06:45 PM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...power_stations


ALL Coal power
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2016, 06:51 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Yes we need to get off of coal, but smart people plan ahead, and they have alternative plans in place to replace the coal industry, they don't rush into these things like our government is doing. Ontario tried to rush into green power, and look where it got them.
What is the WRA / PC / AP /Lib plan regarding phasing out coal?
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Old 12-18-2016, 06:55 PM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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What is the WRA / PC / AP /Lib plan regarding phasing out coal?
The coal was already planed to be phased out 2034.
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  #12  
Old 12-18-2016, 06:58 PM
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The coal was already planed to be phased out 2034.
Good we have time to change the thought of current gov,
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Old 12-18-2016, 07:06 PM
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What is the WRA / PC / AP /Lib plan regarding phasing out coal?
What has that got to do with this discussion?.. the left wing's constant deflection to the other parties policies is getting a little old while discussing the current Government's bumbling of the whacked out legislation they are implementing....
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Old 12-18-2016, 07:07 PM
Mugs29 Mugs29 is offline
 
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What most of the public doesn't know is the majority of the coal mines in Alberta is steel making coal. Also it is one of the best steel making coal in the world with its extremely low sulphur content.
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Old 12-18-2016, 07:17 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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What has that got to do with this discussion?.. the left wing's constant deflection to the other parties policies is getting a little old while discussing the current Government's bumbling of the whacked out legislation they are implementing....
Well, if the plan is being questioned, would be nice to know what the better plans are?
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  #16  
Old 12-18-2016, 07:27 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Well, if the plan is being questioned, would be nice to know what the better plans are?
And I would like to know exactly which new jobs you are referring to, that will replace the employment provided by our coal industry, and coal fired power generation. I would like to see the actual plan , not just speculation that new jobs will be created.
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Old 12-18-2016, 07:36 PM
ak-71 ak-71 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
We need to get off coal, new technologies will create new jobs. Nobody said being responsible would be easy. There will be pain in the coal sector, but change is inevitable.
Yep, being stupid gets expensive . But seems like it makes some feel good about themselves.
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  #18  
Old 12-18-2016, 07:44 PM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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Well, if the plan is being questioned, would be nice to know what the better plans are?
What was wrong with planing to close them 4 years later than the NDP is proposing without costing us billions?
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Old 12-18-2016, 07:54 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Sounds like you boys got your minds made up so no point in arguing. We know where coal is going.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:01 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
Sounds like you boys got your minds made up so no point in arguing. We know where coal is going.
It's more a question of phasing it out in a well planned and cost effective manner, versus wasting billions of dollars in a rush to phase it out sooner.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:01 PM
ak-71 ak-71 is offline
 
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What was wrong with planing to close them 4 years later than the NDP is proposing without costing us billions?
Political bragging rights, this fuzzy feeling of being the saviors of the planet 400 years from now? I don't know the answer, at least for now, maybe when pot becomes legal... Who knows then
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:01 PM
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Well, if the plan is being questioned, would be nice to know what the better plans are?
Sell it to China so they can burn it?? Cause that's what's happening.
Did you know the previous government had a grant in place to find ways to burn coal cleaner?? This government cancelled that grant and dropped all the research done up to this point, that sounds like an intelligent way to handle things . You voted for these losers so when your public pension is paying more for your utilities then you bring in tell us how it was a necessary evil.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:28 PM
260 Rem 260 Rem is offline
 
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Cleaner way to burn ... like filtered cigarettes. Want a change in political direction, work hard for the party you support and get out the vote.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:33 PM
ak-71 ak-71 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by sjr View Post
EVERYONE IN ALBERTA NEEDS TO KNOW THIS….just backs up what we all are thinking about the NDP announcement….….


Here's Just a small sample of how many coal plants are out
there

Eu has 468 plants building 27 more for a total of 495
Turkey has 56 plants building 93 more total 149
South Africa has 79 building 24 more total 103
India has 589 building 446 more total 1036
Philippines has 19 building60 more total 79
South Korea has 58 building 26 more total 84
Japan has 90 building 45 more total 135
CHINA has 2363 building 1171 total 3534
……..But here comes the Alberta NDP to save the planet to shut down
our 5 plants ….
BTW, are those power plants, or power and heat plants combined? At least China and Russia burn coal for central heating to heat cities as well as on a smaller scale. I suspect coal use/consumption is higher than numbers suggest. Visit Beijing in winter and you will smell and see it without any lab. tests.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:49 PM
Buckhead Buckhead is offline
 
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Well, if the plan is being questioned, would be nice to know what the better plans are?
The better plan would be CCS. Carbon Capture and Sequestration.
Alberta has thousands of abandoned oil and gas wells and formations.

Spend that money to advance that technology and there we go. No shutting down coal plants or the oil and gas industry or need for the carbon tax.

And a cleaner environment. Win/win.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:49 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Cleaner way to burn ... like filtered cigarettes. Want a change in political direction, work hard for the party you support and get out the vote.
Notley is more effective at winning votes for the opposition than the opposition leaders are. I believe that it will be more a case of her losing the next election, than another leader winning it.
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Old 12-18-2016, 09:45 PM
roy9525 roy9525 is offline
 
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Cleaner way to burn ... like filtered cigarettes. Want a change in political direction, work hard for the party you support and get out the vote.
Two more years and this ndp term will be terminated and known as the worst four years in albertas history
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Old 12-18-2016, 09:57 PM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Cleaner way to burn ... like filtered cigarettes. Want a change in political direction, work hard for the party you support and get out the vote.
Coal plants already burn clean. No need to phase them out.
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Old 12-18-2016, 11:07 PM
HyperMOA HyperMOA is online now
 
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Coal plants already burn clean. No need to phase them out.
And add to that 17 years of technology advancement, and by 2034 I would bet 0 emission coal is a reality, or very close to it.
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Old 12-18-2016, 11:45 PM
stefk stefk is offline
 
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Two more years and this ndp term will be terminated and known as the worst four years in albertas history
All hope for this reality. However, if the WR and the PC's continue to be at odds and cannot agree to an amicable solution to unite the right, I fear that a repeat of a horrendous outcome for the 2019 provincial election may be reality….
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