Syria Clusterfudge

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by wylecoyote

Rhawanda was a huge failure by the UN and the rest of the world. 500,000-100,000,000 people wiped out in a genocide. 200,000-500,000 women raped. Countless acts a torture and depravity. Kofi Annan himself declared the UN mission in Rhawanda a failure. What are you so proud of???

We went to help when others didn't. The fact the mission was a failure doesn't detract from the fact that we tried.

[Deo101]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

We went to help when others didn't.

Do you truly believe that the U.S want to "help" ?

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by Deo101

Do you truly believe that the U.S want to "help" ?

what in Rwanda? They never went.

[wylecoyote]

And on the topic of starving children... the US is the number 1 provider of food aid in the world by a freakin long shot. They alone provide over half of the total food aid in the world. Where is China, Russia, on that scale. The western countries and the earopeans are the reason even more children are not starving. And if your concerned put your money were your mouth is. Start sponsering children in third world countries. We have so much, it is our responsibility to ensure we help out.

[Deo101]

I mean there intentions for going into Syria. And glad to hear they are the number one provider of food aid....I've never heard this or researched it for that matter. That said, it still obviously isn't enough. And I'm sure it's no where near the budget that is spent on there continuous wars. Read one report this morning that said at least 355 people killed from the Chem Weapons. Not worthy of going to war over if you ask me. And I realize chemical weapons are cruel but burning to death or having your extremities blown off isn't any better. Rules of war have always baffled me. Like getting into a fist fight but you can't punch in the face.

Who says I don't shell a little coin out. Now you've made me feel guilty for not doing more. The only reason I brought the starving people into it is to help point out that the United States isn't in this to help people...

[wylecoyote]

I apoplogize for the comment on putting your money where your mouth is. I enjoy healthy debate and taking things to a personal level is not appropriate.

[recce43]

everbody knows the UN not going to help them .. The Un is useless body of goverment employees living high on the hog just like our senate

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by Deo101

I mean there intentions for going into Syria. And glad to hear they are the number one provider of food aid....I've never heard this or researched it for that matter. That said, it still obviously isn't enough. And I'm sure it's no where near the budget that is spent on there continuous wars. Read one report this morning that said at least 355 people killed from the Chem Weapons. Not worthy of going to war over if you ask me. And I realize chemical weapons are cruel but burning to death or having your extremities blown off isn't any better. Rules of war have always baffled me. Like getting into a fist fight but you can't punch in the face.

Oh, well I was talking about Canada's involvement in Rwanda. US action is Syria is motivated by Oil interests mainly IMO, something the US is fond of supporting abroad.

They still haven't identified the agent used in the attack from what I've been able to find. Initial reports point towards a chemical attack, but again nothing concrete that I've been able to find.

US might provide that largest amount of food aid, but considering that there actions require them to provide for millions of people after disrupting there formerly functioning economies. NAFTA saw millions of Mexican farmers unable to compete with the industrial farmed products from the north. Kind of why Clinton and Bush before him beefed up the southern border after that was signed. They knew there would be a large influx of migrants after they were forced off their farms.

Wyle asks where China is in all this. Well China has ~1.3 billion people and not enough arable land to support them all, well they can't really be giving food away now can they. Russia on the other hand, well after the fall of the soviet union, many of the large state owned/operated farms lost government marketing and supply channels, as well as funding for inputs. Russia is currently rebuilding(slowly) its agricultural sector, which has never been very successful in the past, for its own food security.

Remember, even though Russia is the largest nation in terms of land mass, only 13% of it is considered arable land, where as in Canada it's 6.9% and in the US it's 45%. Russia also has 5x the population of Canada, but less then twice it's arable land.
data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.LND.AGRI.ZS

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by wylecoyote

I apoplogize for the comment on putting your money where your mouth is. I enjoy healthy debate and taking things to a personal level is not appropriate.

Kudos sir.

[greylynx]

Barkey holds a war and no one wants to participate.

Serves him right for dumping on all the U.S. Allies.

I wonder why the French are all of a sudden all palsy walsy with B.O.?

[fishtank]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Barkey holds a war and no one wants to participate.

Serves him right for dumping on all the U.S. Allies.

I wonder why the French are all of a sudden all palsy walsy with B.O.?

it's the french ... they probably did get the memo yet, once they do they change sides .

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Barkey holds a war and no one wants to participate.

Serves him right for dumping on all the U.S. Allies.

I wonder why the French are all of a sudden all palsy walsy with B.O.?

Syria was once a French Colony. Just like Mali. Colonialism still runs strong.

[CheeseBurger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtCOxeGAHEI don't have the time to read through the last seven pages so I don't know if this has been posted or not but I realized I was fairly ignorant in my understanding of Syria and it's past so I watched this documentary and thought it was a good place to start.

[Ruger1022]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/presi...a-speaks-syria

about to start...

[Wild&Free]

Looks like Barack is going to ask congress before doing what he wants. Should be interesting. I wonder what else is being voted on this session.

[Deo101]

Sounded like he will ask but it could be after he attacks? What a joke!

[silverdoctor]

Looks like the french people are opposed to a Syrian strike as well...

http://www.thelocal.fr/20130829/majo...a-intervention

but it doesn't matter. Wonder if this is a historical thing for France...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French...nd_the_Lebanon

[ctd]

Syria is and has been a middle man so to speak for many country's.
The main ones such as the USA, Russia (USSR) France, China and a few more lesser ones. Have used Syria as a go between. They deal through Syria so to be able to wash their hands of the situation.
You can ask for proof. Can't be given. Those records don't exist, if you read between the lines you will find that Syria knows about a large portion Of the dirty laundry for the majority of the major world players.

Syria has been used as shipping depot by all, things majically disappear from neighbouring countries, only to pass through Syria and on to other places.

Now they must have done something in order to make the US mad.

My Take on it all is bomb Syria for an extended amount of time and the dirty secrets get let out. This will not fair well for the world.
Is President Obama being set up, I have no doubt he is. Are we all prepared to pay for it, I don't think so.

[bearbuster]

I agree with the idea of leting the UAE deal with it. It's there back yard. If they support action why not just so it them selves. On another note, not sure how beneficial a strike would be after 2 weeks of heads up warning to the Syrians that it coming. Seems like these type of discussions should happen behind closed doors and we all here about it on CNN after the the punishment has been dealt

[Gust]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Looks like the french people are opposed to a Syrian strike as well...

http://www.thelocal.fr/20130829/majo...a-intervention

but it doesn't matter. Wonder if this is a historical thing for France...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French...nd_the_Lebanon

The French are notorious for making territorial claims after losing battles (just skipping Quebec for a moment),, do you know the history of Haiti?

[Gust]

Originally Posted by ctd

Syria is and has been a middle man so to speak for many country's.
The main ones such as the USA, Russia (USSR) France, China and a few more lesser ones. Have used Syria as a go between. They deal through Syria so to be able to wash their hands of the situation.
You can ask for proof. Can't be given. Those records don't exist, if you read between the lines you will find that Syria knows about a large portion Of the dirty laundry for the majority of the major world players.

Syria has been used as shipping depot by all, things majically disappear from neighbouring countries, only to pass through Syria and on to other places.

Now they must have done something in order to make the US mad.

Exactly.

One of their major industries is torture.

[Deo101]

Originally Posted by bearbuster

I agree with the idea of leting the UAE deal with it. It's there back yard. If they support action why not just so it them selves. On another note, not sure how beneficial a strike would be after 2 weeks of heads up warning to the Syrians that it coming. Seems like these type of discussions should happen behind closed doors and we all here about it on CNN after the the punishment has been dealt

Don't worry you're only seeing precisely what they want you to see. Enough goes on behind closed doors. I have always though it was weird how they talk about it on the news.... just another reason I think it's usually B. S.

This one seems especially staged too me....

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by wylecoyote

I am already signed up, been in for four years now(infantry reserves). I have looked at options for going reg force and may do so within the year. Who knows if the Syrians used CW's...if they did they are in the wrong and need to be held accountable. If they didn't well then let them keep fighting and killing each other, but then how long does the world watch civillians be displaced and killed before it does something? We have watched before while innocents died. Rhawanda,Bosnia, Somalia, to name a few,and have we done something? Eventually, but why does it always take a couple hundred thousand killed or a village raped, tortured and burned down before the world acts?

Why do we have to be the worlds police force?

4 years reserve time.

Come talk to me when you've been living on what has essentially been a war footing for the 20.
You get the government you deserve...sorry but my empathy muscle is worn right out.

Go bomb Syria and then brace yourself for more.
A decade from now whoever we support to replace him will be doing exactly the same thing.

[fargoni]

US Chem Weapons Disposal Program Supplies WMD’s for Syrian Rebels

By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor

Investigative journalists inside Georgia and the region have traced shipments of chemical weapons to American controlled sources in the region.
Here, the weapons from Georgia are being deployed by US backed Al Qaeda terrorists.
Journalists, Jeffrey Silverman and Lika Moshiashvili have discovered clandestine WMD operations at the US controlled Central Reference Laboratory.
Additionally, at the same facility, now controlled by the US government under cover of a “disarmament aid” program, new strains of deadly viruses are now also being reported as being weaponized and distributed to terrorist organizations.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/08...attacks-video/

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by fargoni

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/08...attacks-video/

You would have thought the US would have learned their lesson after Lyme disease escaped from them.

[Deo101]

How many were killed, I've read anywhere from 400 to 1400. Is the goal to leave Syria like Iraq or any other country they've stuck their nose in....


http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/09...-in-august-un/

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Gust

The French are notorious for making territorial claims after losing battles (just skipping Quebec for a moment),, do you know the history of Haiti?

Well versed. I love history...

[silverdoctor]

NSA, CIA, FBI have declassified files over the years... Let take a look shall we?

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article..._iran?page=0,0

CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed

The U.S. government may be considering military action in response to chemical strikes near Damascus. But a generation ago, America's military and intelligence communities knew about and did nothing to stop a series of nerve gas attacks far more devastating than anything Syria has seen, Foreign Policy has learned.

In 1988, during the waning days of Iraq's war with Iran, the United States learned through satellite imagery that Iran was about to gain a major strategic advantage by exploiting a hole in Iraqi defenses. U.S. intelligence officials conveyed the location of the Iranian troops to Iraq, fully aware that Hussein's military would attack with chemical weapons, including sarin, a lethal nerve agent.

The intelligence included imagery and maps about Iranian troop movements, as well as the locations of Iranian logistics facilities and details about Iranian air defenses. The Iraqis used mustard gas and sarin prior to four major offensives in early 1988 that relied on U.S. satellite imagery, maps, and other intelligence. These attacks helped to tilt the war in Iraq's favor and bring Iran to the negotiating table, and they ensured that the Reagan administration's long-standing policy of securing an Iraqi victory would succeed. But they were also the last in a series of chemical strikes stretching back several years that the Reagan administration knew about and didn't disclose.

U.S. officials have long denied acquiescing to Iraqi chemical attacks, insisting that Hussein's government never announced he was going to use the weapons. But retired Air Force Col. Rick Francona, who was a military attaché in Baghdad during the 1988 strikes, paints a different picture.

"The Iraqis never told us that they intended to use nerve gas. They didn't have to. We already knew," he told Foreign Policy.

According to recently declassified CIA documents and interviews with former intelligence officials like Francona, the U.S. had firm evidence of Iraqi chemical attacks beginning in 1983. At the time, Iran was publicly alleging that illegal chemical attacks were carried out on its forces, and was building a case to present to the United Nations. But it lacked the evidence implicating Iraq, much of which was contained in top secret reports and memoranda sent to the most senior intelligence officials in the U.S. government. The CIA declined to comment for this story.

In contrast to today's wrenching debate over whether the United States should intervene to stop alleged chemical weapons attacks by the Syrian government, the United States applied a cold calculus three decades ago to Hussein's widespread use of chemical weapons against his enemies and his own people. The Reagan administration decided that it was better to let the attacks continue if they might turn the tide of the war. And even if they were discovered, the CIA wagered that international outrage and condemnation would be muted.

In the documents, the CIA said that Iran might not discover persuasive evidence of the weapons' use -- even though the agency possessed it. Also, the agency noted that the Soviet Union had previously used chemical agents in Afghanistan and suffered few repercussions.

It has been previously reported that the United States provided tactical intelligence to Iraq at the same time that officials suspected Hussein would use chemical weapons. But the CIA documents, which sat almost entirely unnoticed in a trove of declassified material at the National Archives in College Park, Md., combined with exclusive interviews with former intelligence officials, reveal new details about the depth of the United States' knowledge of how and when Iraq employed the deadly agents. They show that senior U.S. officials were being regularly informed about the scale of the nerve gas attacks. They are tantamount to an official American admission of complicity in some of the most gruesome chemical weapons attacks ever launched.

[silverdoctor]

Now considering that Al Queda is the enemy of the USA, and the Syrian rebels are made up of Al queda, and the Al Queda are apparently the terrorists that we are all scared of. Why is Canada funding them in any way?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08...aganda-source/

[tri777]

http://www.hangthebankers.com/brzezi...ar-with-syria/

"...Despite attempts by both the Republican and Democratic leadership to gain support for a war in Syria, a new Reuters poll revealed that only 9 percent of Americans support military intervention in Syria.If the United States intervenes, it will be the least popular war in American history.

The massive and growing evidence forced out by the alternative media, which points to a US backed chemical attack by Al Qaeda led rebel forces to be blamed on Assad, has only accelerated the inevitable downfall of the corporate press that is now only trusted by 23 percent of the public..."