Syria Clusterfudge

[JimPS]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Seriously, if I hear about Al Qaeda anymore I might puke.

How brain dead are people?

Hezbullah ain't no joke. And this isn't just about Syria.

I like the bolded part.

DDE was genuine in his words.

Ok, I should have said CIA and Mossad instead of Al Qaeda.

[Fisherpeak]

I think the U.S. and the rest should step back a bit.But then,look what happened in Africa with the Hutu`s and the Tutsi`s,and in Eastern Europe with the Serbs and Croat`s.I sure don`t know the answer,maybe contain and control all the crap inside the borders and let Allah sort `em out.
I sure don`t want to see anymore good Canadian guys get killed when they should be fishing and kissing their girlfriends.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by JimPS

Ok, I should have said CIA and Mossad instead of Al Qaeda.

Oh I didnt mean you specifically, I meant news agencies and their phantom menace.

[JimPS]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Oh I didnt mean you specifically, I meant news agencies and their phantom menace.

Or maybe I should have said Mossad and the CIA instead of the Phantom Menace of Mainstream News Agencies.

I think "Phantom Menace of Mainstream News Agencies" has a nice ring to it.

Go to the head of the class BeeGuy.

[recce43]

Originally Posted by Fisherpeak

I think the U.S. and the rest should step back a bit.But then,look what happened in Africa with the Hutu`s and the Tutsi`s,and in Eastern Europe with the Serbs and Croat`s.I sure don`t know the answer,maybe contain and control all the crap inside the borders and let Allah sort `em out.
I sure don`t want to see anymore good Canadian guys get killed when they should be fishing and kissing their girlfriends.

Put up a fence and let the sort things out or let the arab countries go in and settle it we should never put another foot in again in africa ....Let have allah do it for them ...

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by JimPS

Or maybe I should have said Mossad and the CIA instead of the Phantom Menace of Mainstream News Agencies.

I think "Phantom Menace of Mainstream News Agencies" has a nice ring to it.

Go to the head of the class BeeGuy.

I'm used to having to sit, facing the corner...

[JimPS]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

I'm used to having to sit, facing the corner...

I could see why you would get yourself into trouble in the past.

There's a lot of people now, both young and old, that are finally starting to come around.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by recce43

supporting the troops that are deployed and that they have no choice where the go does not make them a horror soldiers give your head a shake

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

You always have a choice.

Originally Posted by recce43

No you don't once you are signed up

It is more courageous to say no and be imprisoned then it is to fight for something you do not believe in or support.

[wylecoyote]

It is obvious that Canada's role in this mission will be minor at best. The only support we can provide our allies in this mission will be political and maybe some minor military support(refueling, transportation etc). I sometimes wonder why so many people hate on the US. They are our allies and our neighbors. I suppose people would rather have the Russian's or the Chinese running the world. Or maybe we should just let countries do whatever they want to their civillian population and to their neighbors. I for one am glad that the world superpower is our ally, and because they are we should support them, not follow blindly but support. For those that look forward to the day that the US is no longer on top of the world, I would ask who do you think would do a better job? Be carefull what you ask for cause you may not like what you get.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by wylecoyote

It is obvious that Canada's role in this mission will be minor at best. The only support we can provide our allies in this mission will be political and maybe some minor military support(refueling, transportation etc). I sometimes wonder why so many people hate on the US. They are our allies and our neighbors. I suppose people would rather have the Russian's or the Chinese running the world. Or maybe we should just let countries do whatever they want to their civillian population and to their neighbors. I for one am glad that the world superpower is our ally, and because they are we should support them, not follow blindly but support. For those that look forward to the day that the US is no longer on top of the world, I would ask who do you think would do a better job? Be carefull what you ask for cause you may not like what you get.

My best friend is a bully. He picks on others so much that they turn in on themselves in a very destructive manner. He's my best friend though, I don't see anything wrong with what he does.

[Fisherpeak]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

My best friend is a bully. He picks on others so much that they turn in on themselves in a very destructive manner. He's my best friend though, I don't see anything wrong with what he does.

Would you rather share a border with China?Russia?
The U.S. ain`t the best but they sure are better than the competion.

Maybe you should go be Wild and Free in Syria right now.Have a look around,take some photo`s,maybe shop at a market(just before some azzhead bombs it)
We need to fence them off and let`er rip.
I think if the west is going in it should ONLY be air strikes.No feet on the ground.

[recce43]

[QUOTE=Wild&Free;2096353]It is more courageous to say no and be imprisoned then it is to fight for something you do not believe in or support.[/QU
One thing Canada is not going to Syria next thing you have never served have you?
In the military you do not pick and choice what you are going to do...
You know what you are getting into when you join up.

[Fisherpeak]

Originally Posted by wylecoyote

It is obvious that Canada's role in this mission will be minor at best. The only support we can provide our allies in this mission will be political and maybe some minor military support(refueling, transportation etc). I sometimes wonder why so many people hate on the US. They are our allies and our neighbors. I suppose people would rather have the Russian's or the Chinese running the world. Or maybe we should just let countries do whatever they want to their civillian population and to their neighbors. I for one am glad that the world superpower is our ally, and because they are we should support them, not follow blindly but support. For those that look forward to the day that the US is no longer on top of the world, I would ask who do you think would do a better job? Be carefull what you ask for cause you may not like what you get.

Harper is not stupid,nor are the war guys.Support and humanitarian aid only on this one.That`s our commitment.We can`t contribute anyway,militarily,we don`t have the toys.

[wylecoyote]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

My best friend is a bully. He picks on others so much that they turn in on themselves in a very destructive manner. He's my best friend though, I don't see anything wrong with what he does.

If you don't like your best friend then disown him. But then don't ask him for help when your walking home from school and you get your #ss handed to you by an even bigger bully.

[Fisherpeak]

Originally Posted by wylecoyote

If you don't like your best friend then disown him. But then don't ask him for help when your walking home from school and you get your #ss handed to you by an even bigger bully.

Well said.

[BeeGuy]

What a uselessly simplistic manner in which to view the issue.

If ya don't like it go love china.

What?

Really?

If I don't like what my best friend is doing. I'll tell him to his face.

That doesnt mean I'll replace him with the idiot down the street.

Try and think about issues outside of a us/them, good/bad, black/white, for/against context.

It is the only way in which to assess them.




IF yer nut wit us yer wit da terrorrists!!!!

[wylecoyote]

Not what was said at all. Never was it said to "go love China". What I meant, in my overly simplistic veiw of this world, was that if the day comes that the United States is no longer the world super power and is replaced by another power whether it be China or another country or group of countries, then we may not have to worry so much about whether we should invade, attack, stabalise another country, but we may be looking at defending our own soil. And we would need the help of our allies to do so.

[wylecoyote]

And as for us/them, black/white and all that. I am personally tired of fence sitting and appeasing. What is the matter with saying yes or no, not maybe kinda sorta. This world has eneough grey men, who are to scared to take a side or to say that something is wrong, or bad. Not to say matters are not complex, however there is wrong and right. There is good and evil. Take a stand on issues and hold it, back it up and be ready to defend it.

[Deo101]

People still believe the U.S. is the worlds Super Power? Just because they are constantly starting wars doesn't make them powerful. If China or Russia wants the States gone, they're gone. The amount of people they have killed/****ed off across the world leads me to believe they have more enemies than Allies. I feel like they're the ***** friend that you don't want to admit to being friends with. Unfortunately it's there government misrepresenting them. Most the people don't want to be at war.

Wake up! There is way more too this horse chit than some Syrians getting blasted with chemical. Kids are dying of starvation everyday! Put the money there. We may not know the truth but we sure as hell know that what the media tells us isn't truth.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by wylecoyote

Not what was said at all. Never was it said to "go love China". What I meant, in my overly simplistic veiw of this world, was that if the day comes that the United States is no longer the world super power and is replaced by another power whether it be China or another country or group of countries, then we may not have to worry so much about whether we should invade, attack, stabalise another country, but we may be looking at defending our own soil. And we would need the help of our allies to do so.

This is a good point.

Perhaps we should worry more about our own soil, than dusty mountains in Afghanistan, Syria etc etc

The world is globalized. There is not the capacity for another country to be what the US has been for decades, or what Russia or China have been historically.

The challenges we face in the future can not be framed using concepts from the past because they no longer apply to our current situation.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Deo101

We may not know the truth but we sure as hell know that what the media tells us isn't truth.

Aint that the truth.

Gettin tired of being spoon fed cow pies.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by wylecoyote

And as for us/them, black/white and all that. I am personally tired of fence sitting and appeasing. What is the matter with saying yes or no, not maybe kinda sorta. This world has eneough grey men, who are to scared to take a side or to say that something is wrong, or bad. Not to say matters are not complex, however there is wrong and right. There is good and evil. Take a stand on issues and hold it, back it up and be ready to defend it.

Sure.

The US and Canada has no justification imo for engaging Syria.

Many already believe that the US has been supporting the rebels from afar.

I recall Libyan weapons heading to Syria for this reason.


Would love to know the truth regarding this gas issue.

[Wild&Free]

[QUOTE=recce43;2096399]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

It is more courageous to say no and be imprisoned then it is to fight for something you do not believe in or support.[/QU
One thing Canada is not going to Syria next thing you have never served have you?
In the military you do not pick and choice what you are going to do...
You know what you are getting into when you join up.

First, my comment was not in regards to Canadians going into Syria, it was about the simple fact that the act of standing up for your convictions is more courageous then allowing yourself to act, or be coerced into acting against them.

Secondly I have never served in the military beyond a few months in Cadets as a teen. My family has a long history of serving however. My uncle was a pilot, and another uncle was a weapon smith, my grandfather served outside of Canada during WWII, my father is in fact the only brother to not serve. I have much respect for the institution and am a member in good standing with the Legion. I however have issues with authority and the notions of individual freedom they just don't mix with me. Don't get me wrong, if push came to shove and I was needed to serve in defense of my homeland I would. Despite my dislike of the notion of some NCO screaming in my face during training and the strict regimented lifestyle.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/...s-the-gun-nuts

This article, and the position taken by the founding fathers of the US reflects my position.

But at the time, our Founding Fathers believed a militia was the one best defense for the nation since a standing army was, to quote Jefferson, “an engine of oppression.”

I understand times have changed, but how much have they changed for the better because of the actions of standing armies and the so called spread of democracy? The spread of democracy in the Middle East and North Africa have turned the heat up in the region to a point of boiling over. If the west was truly fighting a war on terror they would not be supplying arms to the rebel forces or inciting revolutions then supplying the extremists that come to fight in them. Nor would the decide to bomb the current government of the people prior to an investigation being done. Imagine, if the UN inspectors determine it was the rebels who launched the rockets and released the chemical attack instead of Assad's forces AFTER we bomb Assad's forces and cripple is ability to defend his nation from the same violent extremists that are responsible for committing acts of mass murder.

Thirdly, most of you must not have noticed the SARCASTIC smiley I used at the end of my previous post.

wylecoyote makes a valid point, but I do not choose the lesser of two evils consciously. I will take my licks and live with them, and if it fits, I'll also file an assault charge and respect the rule of law.

[Roughneck12]

For once I am actually agreeing with BeeGuy.
We need to stay out of this region and their issues no matter how brutal they are with each other.
This is turning out to be a part of a bigger picture struggle between Russia and the Us and their dithering President. FBHO.
Best thing to do is nothing and let God sort out who the sinners are.

[Wild&Free]

http://rt.com/news/uk-parliament-vote-syria-181/

UK at least is acting with 'some' sense.

[Deo101]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

http://rt.com/news/uk-parliament-vote-syria-181/

UK at least is acting with 'some' sense.

Glad they listen to their people. We'll see if the U.S. decides to

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Roughneck12

For once I am actually agreeing with BeeGuy.
We need to stay out of this region and their issues no matter how brutal they are with each other.
This is turning out to be a part of a bigger picture struggle between Russia and the Us and their dithering President. FBHO.
Best thing to do is nothing and let God sort out who the sinners are.

There is the obvious issue of Russia, but I think the over arching issue is that of Israel and a permanent US presence in the ME.

Of course geological resources from Pakistan to Libya and north to Georgia are a huge driver of this presence.

Countries do not invest billions in order to "save the children".

[Wild&Free]

My big question on this current issue in Syria is if the rebels are found to be responsible, is the US going to bomb them?

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Deo101

Glad they listen to their people. We'll see if the U.S. decides to

The US is a rogue government. They determine what their populace thinks, they do not act in response to public opinion.

They create public opinion.

Our media is a tentacle of the military-industrial complex.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

The US is a rogue government. They determine what their populace thinks, they do not act in response to public opinion.

They create public opinion.

Our media is a tentacle of the military-industrial complex.

A rogue government supporting a rogue state. Oh, hypocrisy how do I love thee, let me count the ways....