What can Alberta do if BC stops pipeline progress?

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Oh yes I do. That's why stopping them from shipping would be a very effective method to getting the pipeline built.

Thanks for confirming my argument.

BW

Federal government would not allow shipping to be stopped. So it doesnt matter.

[mgvande]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Please drop the LGBT rants. It has nothing to do with the original post and is just a derail.

We need to address the political leverage in BC. The LGBT community is as diverse as AOF and likely these statements are very offensive to our LGBT AOF members.

I think alta270 will forgive us.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I'm pretty sure that somebody high up in CP could figure out that instead of halting train traffic through BC, they make plans to deal with it. For instance, when they are hauling grain cars to BC, they slap an extra 2 or 3 tankers of diesel onto the train. Then they refuel at their yard in BC with the spare fuel they brought and carry on. Same with the shipping lanes. Hey we gotta drop off our load of Chinese-lead-paint-cribs in Vancouver then we will have to refuel in Seattle. The only thing hurting will be BC. (At that point)

Also, the US really isn't an exporter of oil. I know they exported 12 barrels a year or 2 ago to show they are a big player. But if they import billions of barrels from Canada and export 12 barrels; are they really an exporter? To replace the amount of product shipped to BC by pipeline right now would be impossible for the Americans. BC would be like lord of the flies inside of a month without AB oil. Everything would just, stop. Some resourceful few would carry on, but Vancouver would look like a war zone.

I agree that shutting down the oil into BC would probably be the best option to highlight the issue. Timing would however be imperative. Wait until the NDP form government and the pipeline issue gets brought up. Let Horgan grandstand for a little while showing that he is ready to take on Big Oil and then turn off the taps. Not only will he not have not a leg to stand on but people will know that they can't fill up there vehicles because of him. There would be mayhem when all the soccer moms couldn't drive there SUV's to pick up little precious from soccer. There may even be pressure for individual MLA's to cross the floor and join the Liberals thereby cutting the NDP off at the knees.

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

The BC Liberals evolved from the Social Credit Party quite some time ago here. Although right of center, they certainly are not "Liberal".

Left of center of course we have the NDP. The Greens have always been a lunatic fringe sort of effort, until now when they hold the balance of power in their hands, thus becoming the latest belle of the ball.

The majority of voters had simply become quite sick of Crispy Clark's rather dictatorial methods of governing, combined with overt corruption that earmarked BC as the "Wild West" as far as politics go. She so enraged hunters by handing over up to 40% of big game allocations (think you folks have it bad in this regard? You have NOTHING to whine about!!) to the guides and outfitters most vowed to never vote for them again. That of course was after receiving numerous and lucrative bribes from the outfitter association in order to further their cause. Kind of well represents how Crispy et al operates...

Due to that, I would have never voted for her party myself had not the local candidate been a good buddy, a hunter directly involved with all sorts of conservation programs, and someone I felt was truly the right man for the job.

BC has always been a two-party system. So those that wanted to give the liberals a swift slap upside the head were left with little alternative. Most (I believe) were hoping for a liberal minority (and Crispy forced to resign). Unfortunately that is not what developed.



There have been a couple of attempts to initiate a true conservative Party here. Were they to get their **** together, many believe they would be a strong performer. Alas, they are their own worst enemy thus far. Infighting, failure to appoint candidates of any real value, and lackadaisical responses to elections (such as this last) has cost them pretty much any credibility with the voting public. A shame, this province could REALLY use a decent alternative to the two pigs at the trough we currently feed.

The pipeline issue is one simply of politics. Striking out against the common man is both futile and immature. You can bet your sorry ass that the workers did not vote these idiots in, there is simply no reason to punish them for the foolish moves of the the politico's.

I imagine it will all get sorted out down the road. In the meantime, we certainly do live in interesting times both here in BC, and there in Alberta...

Cheers,
Nog

You got that right. If there was only a way to clean house in the conservative parties across Canada. It's crazy the turn politics has taken in the most recent elections. The welfare state has taken over.

[HalfBreed]

Originally Posted by mgvande

I think alta270 will forgive us.

Yikes !

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

... To replace the amount of product shipped to BC by pipeline right now would be impossible for the Americans. BC would be like lord of the flies inside of a month without AB oil. Everything would just, stop. Some resourceful few would carry on, but Vancouver would look like a war zone.

One has to just laugh at the amount of saber rattling from the completely ignorant (both sides btw) on this issue!

It's true that BC does get oil from the KM pipeline for use and export through a terminal on the coast... but... that terminal can import crude also. Realize that there is a glut of oil out there and world shippers are looking for new clients. Do you think that Alberta could stop BC from importing oil from someone else? Do you also believe that the current amount being supplied via Washington (appx 28%) can't be ramped up in a heartbeat, nor that the US would be anything less than exceedingly pleased to do so?

It also happens to be true that BC sends most of it NG to Alberta - and it's our biggest client. The question is who is using that gas? It turns out that our biggest client is the heavy oil industry. Do you think that they would like to see that supply cut off?

It's also true that BC is a basically a port that ships and receives products all over the planet. You think that the rest of Canada would sit back a wait for there iPhone as it is stalled at the Alberta border? How about all the agricultural products that are produced in Western Canada? Do you think that the other provinces would look kindly on this bright idea coming from the brain-dead Don Braid at the Calgary Herald?

Really?

Ian Anderson's posturing from Texas ain't helping the case much either. Suggestions of a Dakota Access oil pipeline "resolution" serve only to rile up the situation even further. Best advise to that fool is to put a sock in it. Quickly that is. This still is after all Canada, NOT Texas Toto...

Not to mention the obvious fact that with an economy that's already tanked Alberta can't really afford to cut off any paying customer. In fact threats of doing so actually play right into the hands of those politico's noting resistance. It could easily escalate to the point they concede to the pipeline itself, but demand a penance for it's construction / operation. Say... You want to pipe oil through BC... no problem, only gonna cost you $2 for every $1 you make....

The stakes are indeed high but BC holds all the cards at this point:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle35197642/

Surprisingly Alberta's premier has shown a hell of a lot more restraint than a bumbling Calgary Herald reporter (and many on this site actually) and has refused to endorse / speculate on the myriad of threats suggested to her. Instead, she does appear to be relying on the feds to bail out the situation, although there is growing resistance to any perceived interference by Pony Boy in BC's matters. Could quite likely be that Notely actually to some extent understands the advice given by Chevron's spokesman Adrien By that any such consideration / action "would be pretty ruinous to the Alberta economy, to be honest,”

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-n...pretty-ruinous

As I said before, hopefully saner heads will prevail, and we will eventually get back on track. In the meantime, please save the threats and rhetoric for someone perhaps foolish enough to give them any semblance of credibility...

Cheers,
Nog

[mac1983]

...

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

One has to just laugh at the amount of saber rattling from the completely ignorant (both sides btw) on this issue!

It's true that BC does get oil from the KM pipeline for use and export through a terminal on the coast... but... that terminal can import crude also. Realize that there is a glut of oil out there and world shippers are looking for new clients. Do you think that Alberta could stop BC from importing oil from someone else? Do you also believe that the current amount being supplied via Washington (appx 28%) can't be ramped up in a heartbeat, nor that the US would be anything less than exceedingly pleased to do so?

It also happens to be true that BC sends most of it NG to Alberta - and it's our biggest client. The question is who is using that gas? It turns out that our biggest client is the heavy oil industry. Do you think that they would like to see that supply cut off?

It's also true that BC is a basically a port that ships and receives products all over the planet. You think that the rest of Canada would sit back a wait for there iPhone as it is stalled at the Alberta border? How about all the agricultural products that are produced in Western Canada? Do you think that the other provinces would look kindly on this bright idea coming from the brain-dead Don Braid at the Calgary Herald?

Really?

Ian Anderson's posturing from Texas ain't helping the case much either. Suggestions of a Dakota Access oil pipeline "resolution" serve only to rile up the situation even further. Best advise to that fool is to put a sock in it. Quickly that is. This still is after all Canada, NOT Texas Toto...

Not to mention the obvious fact that with an economy that's already tanked Alberta can't really afford to cut off any paying customer. In fact threats of doing so actually play right into the hands of those politico's noting resistance. It could easily escalate to the point they concede to the pipeline itself, but demand a penance for it's construction / operation. Say... You want to pipe oil through BC... no problem, only gonna cost you $2 for every $1 you make....

The stakes are indeed high but BC holds all the cards at this point:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle35197642/

Surprisingly Alberta's premier has shown a hell of a lot more restraint than a bumbling Calgary Herald reporter (and many on this site actually) and has refused to endorse / speculate on the myriad of threats suggested to her. Instead, she does appear to be relying on the feds to bail out the situation, although there is growing resistance to any perceived interference by Pony Boy in BC's matters. Could quite likely be that Notely actually to some extent understands the advice given by Chevron's spokesman Adrien By that any such consideration / action "would be pretty ruinous to the Alberta economy, to be honest,”

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-n...pretty-ruinous

As I said before, hopefully saner heads will prevail, and we will eventually get back on track. In the meantime, please save the threats and rhetoric for someone perhaps foolish enough to give them any semblance of credibility...

Cheers,
Nog

I wasn't rattling sabres with a completely ignorant view. I was making factual points.

I said any rail issues could be dealt with in a simple matter. The new pink Iphones will still arrive.

I also said that the US could not provide the oil BC needs; and they couldn't. Do you think Washington could just up production and shipping by 400% overnight? If you do, its you that is ignorantly rattling sabres. The US is not an exporter. Also, how long does it take to order, reserve a tanker, fill tanker, transport, offload, refine, then deliver to gas stations the oil you are just going to bring into the port of Vancouver? The city will be in Armageddon mode before the tanker makes it near shore. (I am not saying BC is more susceptible to this; really any modern jurisdiction would break down without oil inside a month. BC is just a "target" in this situation and that is why I say it would be like Armageddon.)

IF Washington was able to provide the fuel to support BC, where do you think the crude will be sourced from? In this best case scenario all that would happen is BC adds $.25 a liter to their fuel costs and AB's economy isn't ruined. Also why would our economy be ruined? Its time Alberta put their hand out and asked Canada for its money back. A few weeks/months of reduced export isn't going to make AB disappear. Further more some short term pain might pay huge dividends in long term gains from actions like these.

Most people on here are not ignorant, and most (me included) don't want to see anything like this happen. Its just that society has become so disconnected with reality that things like this should/need to happen to truly wake the populace. Too many people think they are so self-righteous, a month without oil and the mentality of these individuals would change quickly.

I also never said any of this should happen. I just pointed out solutions and problems to scenarios that others laid out.

[IronNoggin]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

... Its just that society has become so disconnected with reality that things like this should/need to happen to truly wake the populace...

Try not to take it too personally Mad Max

Cheers,
Nog

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by IronNoggin

Try not to take it too personally Mad Max

Cheers,
Nog

Oh its pretty hard to take anything on a computer screen too personally.

I would just love to see the sweet poetic justice of it all. It truly would be worth the price of admission, to watch the populace get what they have battled for, for so long. All the SJW would be beside themselves because the new Iphone8 is sitting at the docks in Vancouver and they can't get one. PSSHHHHHHTTTT! When have they ever used a petro chemical!!!!

PS I would make a great road warrior. I just need a Blue Heeler.