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Old 07-10-2020, 08:25 PM
cartermoser cartermoser is offline
 
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Exclamation Coal mining in Livingstone range and southwestern Alberta

Hi I’m 16 and started fly fishing when I was 11 on the Livingstone and upper Oldman rivers and tributaries. I have gained a passion for fly fishing as well as conservation measures. The Alberta government has made changes to coal mining legislation and areas of the Livingstone range are at risk for the implementation of coal mines in the area. I have started a petition to send to my MLA and MP against this and I could use some support! Here’s the link, it takes less than 5 minutes: http://chng.it/z2KF6cRR

Last edited by cartermoser; 07-10-2020 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 07-10-2020, 09:05 PM
cartermoser cartermoser is offline
 
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More information through the link as well
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Old 07-12-2020, 10:01 PM
kbobbeck kbobbeck is offline
 
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sorry no support from me...the area needs the economic boost
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Old 07-12-2020, 11:06 PM
lannie lannie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cartermoser View Post
Hi I’m 16 and started fly fishing when I was 11 on the Livingstone and upper Oldman rivers and tributaries. I have gained a passion for fly fishing as well as conservation measures. The Alberta government has made changes to coal mining legislation and areas of the Livingstone range are at risk for the implementation of coal mines in the area. I have started a petition to send to my MLA and MP against this and I could use some support! Here’s the link, it takes less than 5 minutes: http://chng.it/z2KF6cRR
It is easy to be against things. Sounds like you really like kool aid too.
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Old 07-12-2020, 11:25 PM
crazy_davey crazy_davey is offline
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sorry no support from me...the area needs the economic boost
Yes sir, I agree fully.
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Old 07-13-2020, 07:40 AM
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Lornce Lornce is offline
 
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Signed, some things are more valualbe than profits.
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Old 07-13-2020, 09:19 AM
fishinisgood fishinisgood is offline
 
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sorry no support from me...the area needs the economic boost
Wow, one of those guys hey
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Old 07-13-2020, 09:29 AM
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bessiedog bessiedog is offline
 
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I dunno

The Australians already had a problem with stuff from their operation in Gold Creek.

Then ‘an otter’ decimated the nice cutties in there........

All that for jobs...... we need to look more carefully maybe.
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Old 07-13-2020, 04:04 PM
newdrenalin newdrenalin is offline
 
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I love flyfishing and that area. There is always a fine line between jobs and protecting the backcountry. I wish there was a compromise between them.
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Old 07-13-2020, 05:01 PM
crazy_davey crazy_davey is offline
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I love flyfishing and that area.
So do I. Fished this area since I was a little kid. That would be somewhere around 40 years ago.

Last edited by crazy_davey; 07-13-2020 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 07-13-2020, 05:04 PM
crazy_davey crazy_davey is offline
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Originally Posted by Lornce View Post
Signed, some things are more valualbe than profits.
Of course, coming from someone who doesn’t live around here
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Old 07-13-2020, 08:30 PM
kbobbeck kbobbeck is offline
 
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Originally Posted by fishinisgood View Post
Wow, one of those guys hey
yes..you guessed it...I am indeed a fly fisherman .
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Old 07-13-2020, 10:45 PM
goldscud goldscud is offline
 
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Thinking about all the Selenium released into the Elk because of the mines. There will be effects beyond the drop in fish populations in the long run
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Old 07-14-2020, 01:53 PM
smitty9 smitty9 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cartermoser View Post
Hi I’m 16 and started fly fishing when I was 11 on the Livingstone and upper Oldman rivers and tributaries. I have gained a passion for fly fishing as well as conservation measures. The Alberta government has made changes to coal mining legislation and areas of the Livingstone range are at risk for the implementation of coal mines in the area. I have started a petition to send to my MLA and MP against this and I could use some support! Here’s the link, it takes less than 5 minutes: http://chng.it/z2KF6cRR
Signed.

Good on ya kid. Nice to see a little activism, and its a bit brave to post it here as well. Well done.

Yer doing more than many people on this board who just leech information.

And just ignore the UCP-sheeple-shill-haters who love 19th century fossil fuel tech and would sacrifice the environment for the almighty buck. There are much better ways to create jobs and "fuel" our economy. Don't buy for a single second into the false narrative / false dichotomy "we need it for the economy" diatribes.
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Old 07-14-2020, 02:43 PM
midgetwaiter midgetwaiter is offline
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Originally Posted by kbobbeck View Post
sorry no support from me...the area needs the economic boost
Can we not find something that doesn’t cause so much damage? If you look at other places like the Elk valley this particular type of mine makes a hell of a mess. Do you want to see the Oldman end up like Fording? An awful lot of people downstream rely on the Oldman reservoir.
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Old 07-14-2020, 11:18 PM
crazy_davey crazy_davey is offline
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Originally Posted by goldscud View Post
Thinking about all the Selenium released into the Elk because of the mines. There will be effects beyond the drop in fish populations in the long run
Do you know the measures that Teck has taken to rectify that issue at all the mines in the Elk valley?

I do.
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Old 07-15-2020, 06:20 AM
Jigger Jigger is offline
 
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Originally Posted by smitty9 View Post
Signed.

Good on ya kid. Nice to see a little activism, and its a bit brave to post it here as well. Well done.

Yer doing more than many people on this board who just leech information.

And just ignore the UCP-sheeple-shill-haters who love 19th century fossil fuel tech and would sacrifice the environment for the almighty buck. There are much better ways to create jobs and "fuel" our economy. Don't buy for a single second into the false narrative / false dichotomy "we need it for the economy" diatribes.
Hilarious, I bet you're a little gluttonous piggy like the rest of us enjoying the benefits of evil fossil fuels. Hypocrites are the worst kind of people.
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Old 07-15-2020, 09:22 AM
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bessiedog bessiedog is offline
 
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Hilarious, I bet you're a little gluttonous piggy like the rest of us enjoying the benefits of evil fossil fuels. Hypocrites are the worst kind of people.
People who use this tired worn out and useless moral argument to shut down a protest (which is designed to stimulate issue awareness) IS really the worst. I bet you get ALL your argument ideas from YouTube eh..... I’d call you lazy and simplistic.... but that’s be rude...

We all know that coal burning isn’t a great idea because it pollutes bad.

We all want jobs.... yep..... but no one wants to innovate or invent.... too hard. None of these mine jobs are long term.

I love how the land right next to Blairemore by the highway is essentially useless due to mining..... real waste. Then there’s that big ugly patch by Bushtown.... oh wait! That’s supposed to have been cleaned up by now....... yea....
Then there’s that slagg mess up the Adenac.... and the stuff up all over in behind Bellevue.... and the various mine sinkholes around Talon Peak..... And so on..

Tunnel cave ins are happening around Hillcrest and Bellevue...... nice eh?

Gold Creek fishery took a beating due to Riverdales negligence while just poking around the grassy mountain site..... that’s annoying if you were a fisherman.... no one ever tested the water quality of that spill... but if it killed fish well..... (oh right... it was an otter..)


If you’ve been to where they actually use the coal that we produce...... then think just a tinsey bit about how air travels..... and how small our world is..... you might not be so hung ho about these mines.

But that’s a lot to consider and it’s not simple n straightforward.

Young fellow stepping up and wanting to do something about what he sees as important....... good on him.



I’m think we should find a way better way to mine and use coal... and the LAST thing we should do is make it even easier for companies to not mitigate the super obvious problems coal mining has come to the area.
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Last edited by bessiedog; 07-15-2020 at 09:37 AM.
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  #19  
Old 07-15-2020, 11:49 AM
Jokey75 Jokey75 is offline
 
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The ban on open pit coal mining has been lifted for Rockies and foothils in the province. This project near Blairmore has been in the works for several years.

The lift of the ban is a bad sign. Especially when you consider this. The former Environment Minister for the PCs, is now the head of the Coal Association of Canada. That to me is just hilarious. You go from a job that is suppose to be about protecting the environment to heading up a group that has some of the worst impact imaginable.

If you think Campbell had nothing to do with the ban being lifted you would be wrong. And you would be doubly wrong to think that the ban means nothing as the govt is stating. They say it's an old and redundant bit of legislation.

Telling you right now that the ban was lifted because there are proposed projects that will be coming to light in the very near future that will affect anyone who enjoys the east slopes.

J
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:41 PM
goldscud goldscud is offline
 
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Crazy_davey I would love to hear what Tech is doing to decrease Selenium.
I have heard the levels are 25X above what they are supposed to be. The effects on muscle physiology and breeding in fish is already well documented.
The crash in fish populations in Line Creek and and the Fording is also being documented. The continually moving of the stream bed on Line Creek is also a joke.
Please enlightened me.
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  #21  
Old 07-15-2020, 12:42 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
People who use this tired worn out and useless moral argument to shut down a protest (which is designed to stimulate issue awareness) IS really the worst. I bet you get ALL your argument ideas from YouTube eh..... I’d call you lazy and simplistic.... but that’s be rude...

We all know that coal burning isn’t a great idea because it pollutes bad.

We all want jobs.... yep..... but no one wants to innovate or invent.... too hard. None of these mine jobs are long term.

I love how the land right next to Blairemore by the highway is essentially useless due to mining..... real waste. Then there’s that big ugly patch by Bushtown.... oh wait! That’s supposed to have been cleaned up by now....... yea....
Then there’s that slagg mess up the Adenac.... and the stuff up all over in behind Bellevue.... and the various mine sinkholes around Talon Peak..... And so on..

Tunnel cave ins are happening around Hillcrest and Bellevue...... nice eh?

Gold Creek fishery took a beating due to Riverdales negligence while just poking around the grassy mountain site..... that’s annoying if you were a fisherman.... no one ever tested the water quality of that spill... but if it killed fish well..... (oh right... it was an otter..)


If you’ve been to where they actually use the coal that we produce...... then think just a tinsey bit about how air travels..... and how small our world is..... you might not be so hung ho about these mines.

But that’s a lot to consider and it’s not simple n straightforward.

Young fellow stepping up and wanting to do something about what he sees as important....... good on him.



I’m think we should find a way better way to mine and use coal... and the LAST thing we should do is make it even easier for companies to not mitigate the super obvious problems coal mining has come to the area.
Good post-well said!
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  #22  
Old 07-15-2020, 01:04 PM
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bessiedog bessiedog is offline
 
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Counter point.....

Sparwood and Elkford mines have provided much much needed wildlife refuges for bighorns and elk.

The boys see some nice antler and horn up there.

I also hunt Tent Mountain.... good elk grazing in some parts where the mine used to be.
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  #23  
Old 07-15-2020, 01:30 PM
smitty9 smitty9 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_davey View Post
Do you know the measures that Teck has taken to rectify that issue at all the mines in the Elk valley?

I do.
Fallacious argument / moot point.

Every time I hear something like this, reminds of the hypothetical:

Person #1 shoots person #2
Person #1 proceeds to remove bullet and patches up person #2
Person #1 now wants credit, hero cookie, blue ribbon, medal and recognition for taking responsibility and fixing the issue they caused in the first place.

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Old 07-15-2020, 01:36 PM
smitty9 smitty9 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
Counter point.....

Sparwood and Elkford mines have provided much much needed wildlife refuges for bighorns and elk.

The boys see some nice antler and horn up there.

I also hunt Tent Mountain.... good elk grazing in some parts where the mine used to be.
Surely there are better ways to create and sustain habitat for ungulates than open pit mining? We don't need the trade-off of poisoning trout rivers just so we have better grazing for elk / bighorn.
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  #25  
Old 07-15-2020, 01:47 PM
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bessiedog bessiedog is offline
 
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Stop calling me Shirley.......
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  #26  
Old 07-16-2020, 01:35 AM
crazy_davey crazy_davey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldscud View Post
Crazy_davey I would love to hear what Tech is doing to decrease Selenium.
I have heard the levels are 25X above what they are supposed to be. The effects on muscle physiology and breeding in fish is already well documented.
The crash in fish populations in Line Creek and and the Fording is also being documented. The continually moving of the stream bed on Line Creek is also a joke.
Please enlightened me.
I would like to enlighten you, but in reality, you just want to argue about an issue Teck is trying hard to correct. I can tell by your response, your mind is made up. Last numbers I’ve heard was 170-180 million spent on building new water treatment plants for the mines in Elk valley and still in progress.

Guess what, the water is now treated before it heads downstream. Tested by offsite labs to make sure it is to acceptable current environmental standards.

I will admit it’s not 100% perfect. But, they are working hard to fix the issue. I know this as a fact as I live with someone working her ass off on this very issue.

Want to question my knowledge on this is issue? I have extensive experience working with and dealing with Alberta Environment on water quality for about 20 years.

But hey, the fat fly fisherman wandering up and down every steam in Alberta know best....
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  #27  
Old 07-16-2020, 11:50 AM
Jokey75 Jokey75 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by crazy_davey View Post
I would like to enlighten you, but in reality, you just want to argue about an issue Teck is trying hard to correct. I can tell by your response, your mind is made up. Last numbers I’ve heard was 170-180 million spent on building new water treatment plants for the mines in Elk valley and still in progress.

Guess what, the water is now treated before it heads downstream. Tested by offsite labs to make sure it is to acceptable current environmental standards.

I will admit it’s not 100% perfect. But, they are working hard to fix the issue. I know this as a fact as I live with someone working her ass off on this very issue.

Want to question my knowledge on this is issue? I have extensive experience working with and dealing with Alberta Environment on water quality for about 20 years.

But hey, the fat fly fisherman wandering up and down every steam in Alberta know best....
Not questioning that Teck is doing something on the issue. I am sure they are. It looks pretty bad for a company making millions if they are doing nothing.

And not questioning the person you live with working hard on the issue. I'm sure its a huge task.

But....in MY vast experience in working with big companies and how they deal with major issues that the public has an interest in you can be sure that nothing they are putting out there to the public or their employees will be shining any light on the negatives. Employees, unless they are right at the very tippy top of the pecking order, will be completely in the dark as to any screws up, mis-reporting, or improprieties. That way they can't leak anything.

While the water may be tested offisite to "current environmental standards" you'll know from your 20 years that the "current standard" has been a moving target depending on who is in charge. Bottom line.....is the water as good as it was before it was treated? Or just "acceptable" now?

You've got a big horse in the race so your info is leaning pretty hard in one direction. Not saying your info means nothing but it's no vindication of the situation and I am certainly going to read it and think it's all OK now.

Not only that, you came out name calling with your "fat fly fishermen" comment. Who do you think brings most of these environmental impact issues to AE in the first place? The users who witness first hand the impacts.

And it's all COVID weight thank you very much.

J
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Old 07-16-2020, 11:10 PM
goldscud goldscud is offline
 
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Thanks for the response crazey_davey. I am not looking to argue...rather I would just like to hear the truth. Glad to hear there is finally some water treatment plants being put in place. It is the right thing to do rather than ignore the problem and hope dilution is good enough (it's not).
It sounds like you have been in the game for some time. I imagine you have seen a lot interesting things over the years. Hopefully more investments will be made to lessen the habitat degradation that comes with tearing down mountains.
Unfortunately "scientific reports" often tend to have a certain flavor that is palatable to the folks who are paying the bills....especially if you want another contract.
I have seen the game played for decades as well.
I also like to catch fish.
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Old 07-16-2020, 11:57 PM
crazy_davey crazy_davey is offline
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Originally Posted by goldscud View Post
I also like to catch fish.
We all like to do that for sure!

From what I’ve seen of these current projects they are doing a good job despite the tough task at hand. The people I have met and know working on these projects care about the water quality and are taking their tasks very seriously. Having a background in water quality, I’ve been impressed at how hard they have been working on this.

I know when I was in charge of taking water from the Bow, cooling a large natural gas plant, treating the water and returning it to the Bow, I also took my job very seriously and was well respected in my position. I knew the importance of water quality long before ever getting into that position.

And yes, I have to apologize for my last comment in my last post, that was uncalled for. Sorry to all.
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Old 07-17-2020, 12:24 AM
teberle teberle is offline
 
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Good post-well said!
X2
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