10/22 10+ round magazine prohibition - discussed yet?

[RolHammer]

Just caught some chatter on the CCFR FB page about the prohibition of 10/22 magazines with a greater than 10 round capacity. The search function didn't kick up any relevant threads here - has this been discussed yet?

[Bergerboy]

The Ruger BX25 25 round mags are.

1. Magazines designed or manufactured for both rimfire calibre rifles and handguns

Magazines designed to contain rimfire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a rifle do not have a regulated capacity. However, magazines designed to contain rimfire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic handgun are limited to 10 cartridges. Magazines designed or manufactured for use in both rifles and semiautomatic handguns are subject to the handgun limit of 10 cartridges.

Example:
Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 rifle and 15-22P pistol chambered for 22LR caliber:

the 10 round magazine is unregulated
the 25 round magazine is a prohibited device
Example 2*: The Ruger BX-25 magazine, chambered for 22 LR calibre, is designed and manufactured for use in the Ruger SR22 rifle, the 10/22 family of rifles/carbines and the 22 Charger handgun. As a result, this magazine is a prohibited device unless modified so its capacity is 10 cartridges or less. (*This information was not included in the original version of this bulletin, but was added on 2013-09-05.)


Source
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/b...323-72-eng.htm

[RolHammer]

It seemed from the discussion that the Butler Creek Hot Lips and Steel Lips models for the 10/22 were included in the prohibition as well. There did seem to be considerable question though.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by RolHammer

It seemed from the discussion that the Butler Creek Hot Lips and Steel Lips models for the 10/22 were included in the prohibition as well. There did seem to be considerable question though.

Nopers

[RolHammer]

Additional links:

http://calibremag.ca/rcmp-declares-1...bited-devices/

https://m.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/co...t&compact=true

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=D3mlD4rvzvU

[RolHammer]

If this does end up holding water, this was the advice one person offered:

"Upset about the reintroduced Ruger 10/22 anything over 10 round magazine ban? Call 1-800-731-4000, then 1, then 1, then extension 1090. That's the techs in Ottawa. Apparently they're the ones to call and talk about it with."

[Jim]

Looks like the butler creek mags are going to be prohibited as well as every other after market 10/22 mag with capacity over 10. Cgn is in meltdown, guys talking about no compromise and certain lyrics from NWA.

[RolHammer]

I have to say though, this is a ridiculously irresponsible move. There must be hundreds & hundreds of thousands of Butler Creek mags out there. The owners of these just got criminalized. If there were going to be a problem w these in the commission of crimes or forming a credible issue for public safety, we'd have seen it by now. Have there been any issues w them in this way? Even one report?

[Jim]

I would say the majority of 10/22 owners have at least one 25 round magazine so there is definitely thousands of them out there. Some of the mags such as the drum magazine cost over $100. So who is going to pay for that. No compensation is equivalent to theft.

[DiabeticKripple]

I have 2 steel lips mags. I'm not giving them up. I'll hide them if need be

[RolHammer]

OK, saw this on the consolidated thread at CGN. Looks like this may be real & not some wolf-crying based on some 2015 webpage somebody dug up:

"Found this on facebook...credit to Prophet River Firearms:

Your question regarding magazine capacity for the 10/22 platform has been forwarded to me for answer.

The Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted limit the capacity of certain firearm magazines in order to reduce the number of shots that can be fired in quick succession. As set out in the Regulations, the capacity limit of firearm magazines is based on the type of firearm the magazine was designed for. The maximum capacity is five cartridges for a magazine designed for a semi-automatic, centre-fire long gun, and 10 cartridges for a magazine designed for a handgun.

Larger-capacity magazines designed for these types of firearms are prohibited devices under the Criminal Code, and individuals cannot lawfully possess them. However, if the magazines are permanently altered, or pinned, so that they cannot hold more than the legal limit, they are no longer considered to be prohibited.

Magazines designed or manufactured for use in both rifles and semiautomatic handguns that shoot rimfire ammunition are subject to a maximum capacity of 10 cartridges. The 25-shot Ruger BX-25 is interchangeable between the Ruger model 10/22 and SR22 rifles and Ruger 22 Charger handgun configurations (the product manual on the Ruger website states this explicitly) and is therefore considered a "handgun" magazine. Because handguns are limited to a ten shot magazine capacity in accordance with the Regulations (paragraph 3 (1)(b)), this limits the magazine capacity for the BX-25 magazine to ten (10) shots, despite the firearm being designed to use rim-fire ammunition.

The German Sport Guns Ruger 10/22 110-Round Drum Magazine, is a prohibited device because it is a dual-purpose magazine that is designed or manufactured to fit into a handgun. this particular magazine is also designed to fit the Ruger 10/22 platform, which, as it includes the Charger handgun is subject to the limit of 10 shots for handguns.

Hope this help

Daniel ***** A/Senior Firearms Technicician /Technicien senior en arme à feu.(Interim) Royal Canadian Mounted Police Gendarmerie royale du Canada Specialized Firearms Support Services (SFSS) Services Spécialisés de soutien en matière d'armes à feu (SSSAF) Firearms Technology Unit-Leikin (FTU-L) Supervisor Groupe de la technologie des armes à feu-Leikin (GTAF-L) Superviseur

**********@rcmp-grc.gc.ca

Yes, any newly manufactured magazine that fits both the Ruger rifle and handgun of the 10/22 platform must be limited to 10 shots.

Regards

Daniel *****"


Not that I in any way support banning, but it seems they would have created less of an issue if they'd just made the offending 10/22 handgun models prohibited. <shrug>

[MrSharp]

I have a feeling if there is truth to this that there is going to be a whole lot of newly made criminals in the country, those that that don't do the internet and will be oblivious to those that just no way in hell are turning in or destroying their mags.

[wildbill]

...oh here we go, my understanding is any magazine that holds over ten rounds that fits into a 1022 is a prohibited device due to the fact that it will fit into the charger as well (handgun), but, as I'm sure we're all aware of, all gun stores sell these crappy high capacity magazines (oh I'm sure there those on here that would accept one ftf per magazine, not me) which obviously is being overlooked by our lawmakers. None of these high capacity magazines even come close to the bx 25 mags but because it says right on the package (good old Ruger) that they will fit into the charger that makes it illegal some how to bring into the country but I'm sure if you had them pinned to ten you could get them brought in that way but really what would be the point? I'll stick to my ten round (and 9 round 22wmr/17 hmr) rotary mags any day,over these wanna be, aint never gonna be, A-team banana clips! But hey, who am I to judge, I know if you want to rest your gun on anything while not holding the gun like Rambo you're screwed, as far as I'm concerned those mags are garbage, gsg, champion, butler creek ect. the reviews say it all.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by wildbill

...oh here we go, my understanding is any magazine that holds over ten rounds that fits into a 1022 is a prohibited device due to the fact that it will fit into the charger as well (handgun), but, as I'm sure we're all aware of, all gun stores sell these crappy high capacity magazines (oh I'm sure there those on here that would accept one ftf per magazine, not me) which obviously is being overlooked by our lawmakers. None of these high capacity magazines even come close to the bx 25 mags but because it says right on the package (good old Ruger) that they will fit into the charger that makes it illegal some how to bring into the country but I'm sure if you had them pinned to ten you could get them brought in that way but really what would be the point? I'll stick to my ten round (and 9 round 22wmr/17 hmr) rotary mags any day,over these wanna be, aint never gonna be, A-team banana clips! But hey, who am I to judge, I know if you want to rest your gun on anything while not holding the gun like Rambo you're screwed, as far as I'm concerned those mags are garbage, gsg, champion, butler creek ect. the reviews say it all.

So because you don't like them, no one should have them?

I don't have any issues with my mags, it's the ammo I feed it that matters.

I guess by your logic, LAR-15 mags should be banned as well since they fit AR15's

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by wildbill

...oh here we go, my understanding is any magazine that holds over ten rounds that fits into a 1022 is a prohibited device due to the fact that it will fit into the charger as well (handgun), but, as I'm sure we're all aware of, all gun stores sell these crappy high capacity magazines (oh I'm sure there those on here that would accept one ftf per magazine, not me) which obviously is being overlooked by our lawmakers. None of these high capacity magazines even come close to the bx 25 mags but because it says right on the package (good old Ruger) that they will fit into the charger that makes it illegal some how to bring into the country but I'm sure if you had them pinned to ten you could get them brought in that way but really what would be the point? I'll stick to my ten round (and 9 round 22wmr/17 hmr) rotary mags any day,over these wanna be, aint never gonna be, A-team banana clips! But hey, who am I to judge, I know if you want to rest your gun on anything while not holding the gun like Rambo you're screwed, as far as I'm concerned those mags are garbage, gsg, champion, butler creek ect. the reviews say it all.

Meh, my steel lip butler creek mags still work awesome, so do the rotary standard ones. Not a Rambo nor bench rest nor A team type guy, just a fella that likes to have various types of additions to the Ruger 10/22 without being unlawful and running others down because I don't meet thier expectations.
Goes for a lot of people who own these rifles.

[RolHammer]

Originally Posted by wildbill

I'll stick to my ten round (and 9 round 22wmr/17 hmr) rotary mags any day,over these wanna be, aint never gonna be, A-team banana clips! But hey, who am I to judge, I know if you want to rest your gun on anything while not holding the gun like Rambo you're screwed, as far as I'm concerned those mags are garbage, gsg, champion, butler creek ect. the reviews say it all.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you've just illustrated the basic problem. "I got mine, so no big deal. Didn't use that stuff & wouldn't anyway." Somebody just pulled a regulatory sleight of hand & is trying to declare illegal something the law specifically indicates is legal. You should rightly be outraged because tomorrow, next week, next month, next year when they pull the same BS and arbitrarily contract the line inside 10 rounds, who's gonna stand up for you and your rotary box magazines? Us 'A-Team, Rambo wanna-bes' that just took a splintery one up the chute while you pointed & laughed? Use your head.

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by RolHammer

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you've just illustrated the basic problem. "I got mine, so no big deal. Didn't use that stuff & wouldn't anyway." Somebody just pulled a regulatory sleight of hand & is trying to declare illegal something the law specifically indicates is legal. You should rightly be outraged because tomorrow, next week, next month, next year when they pull the same BS and arbitrarily contract the line inside 10 rounds, who's gonna stand up for you and your rotary box magazines? Us 'A-Team, Rambo wanna-bes' that just took a splintery one up the chute while you pointed & laughed? Use your head.

Hammer meet nail

[Throttle_monkey1]

Originally Posted by wildbill

...oh here we go, my understanding is any magazine that holds over ten rounds that fits into a 1022 is a prohibited device due to the fact that it will fit into the charger as well (handgun), but, as I'm sure we're all aware of, all gun stores sell these crappy high capacity magazines (oh I'm sure there those on here that would accept one ftf per magazine, not me) which obviously is being overlooked by our lawmakers. None of these high capacity magazines even come close to the bx 25 mags but because it says right on the package (good old Ruger) that they will fit into the charger that makes it illegal some how to bring into the country but I'm sure if you had them pinned to ten you could get them brought in that way but really what would be the point? I'll stick to my ten round (and 9 round 22wmr/17 hmr) rotary mags any day,over these wanna be, aint never gonna be, A-team banana clips! But hey, who am I to judge, I know if you want to rest your gun on anything while not holding the gun like Rambo you're screwed, as far as I'm concerned those mags are garbage, gsg, champion, butler creek ect. the reviews say it all.

Dumbest post of the week. Hands down.

I don't think this would hold up in court if you had an impartial judge. This is a simple RCMP interpretation.

The law states a magazine designed for use in a rimfire rifle has no capacity. A magazine designed for use in a rimfire handgun is limited to 10 rounds. The RCMP is doing a bit of mental gymnastics in their interpretation saying that since these magazines fit in the ruger charger they must have been designed for it.

But how can a magazine that's been on the market since the 80s (butler creek 25 round mag) have been designed for a "handgun" (the ruger charger), released in 2007?

This "dual-use" bull**** that they're parroting is simply their interpretation and is not found anywhere in the firearms act. That said, you could still be charged with possession of a prohibited device, and face a few years in the clink should the judge side with the RCMP. Fun times.

[Aaron.m]

So after all the comments above, is the Buttler Creek 25 mag prohibited because it in fact does fit in the Charger? Or is it only the Ruger BX25?

[purgatory.sv]

I wish I could answer ,I don’t know but do care.

Post# 2 gives a link to the government page.

Post#5 gives a direction to ask questions .


Post#16 illustrates a result.



I no longer know how to define responsibility and accountability.


We are always divided ,what is value to one is not always respected by others.


I do own and enjoy using my 10-22.

[RolHammer]

Originally Posted by Aaron.m

So after all the comments above, is the Buttler Creek 25 mag prohibited because it in fact does fit in the Charger? Or is it only the Ruger BX25?

Definite yes to the BX-25. It appears as if it will be a definite yes to any 10+ round magazine for the 10/22 as well, based on the reasoning you provide. Concrete confirmation on that is as yet forthcoming however. Every indicator except the official text of an RCMP interpretation on the matter is present. The next few days should bear that out I would imagine.

[D4l3k]

regardless of the item they are trying to make prohibited

the major problem here is that unelected people are exploiting their power by CREATING/AMMENDING LAWS overnight without the due process going thru parliament and our ELECTED law makers

harper took these powers away and put them in their place after the swissarms/858 attempted ban, because it is the exact opposite of what the RCMP is supposed to be doing (they are support to ENFORCE laws, not CREATE them)

but trudeau gave them all back their powers because he doesnt know/understand what he is doing when it comes to this, but mostly it was to stick it to the CONs as a Liberials power play, by reverting their policies

how can anyone in Canada stand by and not oppose the ability of unelected people to make laws overnight and bypass the entire law making/ammendment procedure?!!? if it does not have any bearing on public safety, it is not ACCEPTABLE for them to exploit these powers

[Grizcore]

Does it not make more sense to prohibit the charger as a high capacity pistol, instead of contradicting a federal law stating no limit to rifle capacity? The idea of telling people to "leave the large mags at home" is not prohibition and seems mute. Anyone who would abuse the high capacity mags for criminal acts probably won't care what they were politely asked to do. This is a minor issue compared to the implications of law enforcement (police) managing gun laws (state) or any laws for that matter. I respect all laws in Canada that are vetted and enforced with due legal process, but this is a unilateral decision made by a group of people that are paid to enforce the law, not dictate it, IMO.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Grizcore

Does it not make more sense to prohibit the charger as a high capacity pistol, instead of contradicting a federal law stating no limit to rifle capacity? The idea of telling people to "leave the large mags at home" is not prohibition and seems mute. Anyone who would abuse the high capacity mags for criminal acts probably won't care what they were politely asked to do. This is a minor issue compared to the implications of law enforcement (police) managing gun laws (state) or any laws for that matter. I respect all laws in Canada that are vetted and enforced with due legal process, but this is a unilateral decision made by a group of people that are paid to enforce the law, not dictate it, IMO.

Welcome Grizcore, we need you to take Turdeau's place for a stint or two, hopefully your hair is better than his!

This will bounce around for a while meanwhile we will still go out and shoot rabbits, squirrels etc with our hi capacity magazines for our beloved Ruger 10/22 ' s.
In fact got a squirrel right now over by the wood shed needs attention to, be right back...

[Grizcore]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Welcome Grizcore, we need you to take Turdeau's place for a stint or two, hopefully your hair is better than his!

This will bounce around for a while meanwhile we will still go out and shoot rabbits, squirrels etc with our hi capacity magazines for our beloved Ruger 10/22 ' s.
In fact got a squirrel right now over by the wood shed needs attention to, be right back...

Thanks cat, Been meaning to join this forum for a while, and this this topic forced my hand. My grandpa Jim lost his legs and his little brother fighting for our our freedom, and this goes against everything he fought for. My hair is a bit long but I feel I've earned my wings. JT's is more of a hair Don't!

Cheers!

[bobtodrick]

I'm going to think the same thing will happen as with the Mossberg 715t, their AR lookalike that had 25 round mags.
Mossberg then brought out a handgun.
A lot of debate has occurred as to what is the true legal status...but the result is that you cannot find any dealer in Canada (that I have found) that carries them.
I imagine that it will be the same here...no dealer is going to chance their license over this.

[wildbill]

Not sayin I don't own any steel lip b.c. Mags, they just don't leave the safe, my rotary mags rarely fail no matter what garbage ammo I put in them! My idea of fun is not hearing a click when I should be hearing a bang hahahahahahhahahahahah! If I could use the bx 25s I would, love the responses we are on the same page, if anything they should prohibit the 20 chargers in Canada! Oh and I'm sure someone's gonna pipe up and say "they're the best darn tootin 22 this side of the Mississippi!"

[Grizcore]

From further information found on rcmp website, since 2013 any magazine over ten rounds that fits a pistol (regardless of original design intent) is prohibited unless pinned to ten. I still don't see the point in this prohibition. Pistols are so regulated already, ruining my super plink fest or gopher apocalypse with my drum magazine is not going to affect a pistol owners moral compass. It's like outlawing race slicks because someone might drive them on the road. If someone is found with 25 rounds in a pistol then throw the book at them. The sad thing is that someone will always ruin it for everyone else.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[J0HN_R1]

My take on this is that the RCMP want to push this 10/22 mag issue through so they can set precedent.

And the precedent they want to set concerns other recent RCMP rhetoric about the whole "pinned magazine" thing with the lunatic in Quebec who shot up the election event. He drilled the rivets out of his CZ858 thirty round mags.

If the RCMP successfully push this 10/22 thing through, it seems inevitable they'll eventually launch a new program aimed at prohibiting ALL magazines that are pinned.

[play.soccer]

Next up: LAR15 and .50beo mags

INB4 the "I don't use em, don't need em, so ban em" crowd.