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  #31  
Old 02-18-2018, 01:25 PM
Gifted Intuitive Gifted Intuitive is offline
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Default I like the Laws and Regulations as they exist in Canada

The laws and regulations that exist in Canada are created, administered and enforced by the RCMP and other police organizations.

Please read this :

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rges-1.4443124

This statement by the RCMP confirms that their laws and regulations does not prevent anyone from acquiring and possessing firearms. The RCMP are showing you firearms that can be in the hands of anyone wanting to commit any type of crime, crimes comparable to American mass shootings.

Guns don't commit terrible, terrible crimes. People do. It takes a community to raise a child. It takes a community to raise a demon. Canadians have to see themselves as a society builder with a social fabric connected by forgiveness and compassion.

The US doesn't need our gun laws. The US needs our values.
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  #32  
Old 02-18-2018, 01:40 PM
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Default Agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gifted Intuitive View Post
The laws and regulations that exist in Canada are created, administered and enforced by the RCMP and other police organizations.

Please read this :

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rges-1.4443124

This statement by the RCMP confirms that their laws and regulations does not prevent anyone from acquiring and possessing firearms. The RCMP are showing you firearms that can be in the hands of anyone wanting to commit any type of crime, crimes comparable to American mass shootings.

Guns don't commit terrible, terrible crimes. People do. It takes a community to raise a child. It takes a community to raise a demon. Canadians have to see themselves as a society builder with a social fabric connected by forgiveness and compassion.

The US doesn't need our gun laws. The US needs our values.
X2.
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  #33  
Old 02-19-2018, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gifted Intuitive View Post
The laws and regulations that exist in Canada are created, administered and enforced by the RCMP and other police organizations.

Please read this :

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rges-1.4443124

This statement by the RCMP confirms that their laws and regulations does not prevent anyone from acquiring and possessing firearms. The RCMP are showing you firearms that can be in the hands of anyone wanting to commit any type of crime, crimes comparable to American mass shootings.

Guns don't commit terrible, terrible crimes. People do. It takes a community to raise a child. It takes a community to raise a demon. Canadians have to see themselves as a society builder with a social fabric connected by forgiveness and compassion.

The US doesn't need our gun laws. The US needs our values.
I think that's an excellent point - people, fears, values and attitudes are different. I have lived in both countries and there is some very real differences that likely contribute to underpin your point.

BUT - I think that having any mechanism, albeit imperfect, such as some sort of background screening, is good. It's not to say criminals won't get guns, nor will it prevent all violence by people who are mentally ill or unstable BUT it's another measure that COULD prevent, deter or lead to making it more difficult for someone with nefarious intentions to get their hands on a gun.

I just have a hard time with the perspective that "doing nothing" is the path forward because whatever measure you put in place isn't 100% bullet proof (no pun intended) perfect.

Kinda like forgetting about speed limits because some people will, inevitable speed and get away with it.
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  #34  
Old 02-19-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by hogie View Post
Trying to have another law in place in these situations is almost impossible. The majority of the ones doing mass shootings don't have a criminal record. This latest shooting and the church shooting in Texas both may have been prevented if the current laws were followed.

More has to be done with social media posts of violence. He posted that he was going to be a future school shooter, classmates could believe he was capable. Many weren't surprised that he did it. Maybe the FBI should have done more. The warning signs were there and ignored.

Had a cop friend tell me one time you can't stop crazy.

Even in Canada with our laws someone can still go on a shooting rampage. Happened in Dawson college. With legally purchased restricted and non restricted firearms.

Gun violence is always focuses on guns. As soon as there is a shooting it all about what gun is used. When someone drives through a crowd with a truck the type of truck is not an issue. Maybe if there was less focus on the tools being used there could be better ideas on how to treat people with mental disorders.

What's changed in the last 20 years. Guns are the same. Now we have internet, social media, far more use of drugs for mental illness. Maybe some of theses are factors in mass shootings.
100% agreed - I was sicken to hear the media talk more about the "AR15" and less about the lunatic crazy kid who showed a track record of crazy.

I hate the term "gun control" when, in fact it should be "people control".

Owning a firearm is a right not a privileged for those citizens who abide by the law and are not a risk to society.

My main point was trying to get more "people control" measures in place to prevent or at least reduce these types of senseless tragedies.

I would offer that we, as gun owners, should be PUSHING to move this agenda forward to reduce the bad press about "bad guns" not fighting it. I've always seemed to look st it from that perspective. What can we do more of to protect what we have?
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  #35  
Old 02-19-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
100% agreed - I was sicken to hear the media talk more about the "AR15" and less about the lunatic crazy kid who showed a track record of crazy.

I hate the term "gun control" when, in fact it should be "people control".

Owning a firearm is a right not a privileged for those citizens who abide by the law and are not a risk to society.

My main point was trying to get more "people control" measures in place to prevent or at least reduce these types of senseless tragedies.

I would offer that we, as gun owners, should be PUSHING to move this agenda forward to reduce the bad press about "bad guns" not fighting it. I've always seemed to look st it from that perspective. What can we do more of to protect what we have?
I actually agree with you, for once. Well said.
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  #36  
Old 02-19-2018, 08:09 PM
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Well said,opened my eyes. Thanks
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  #37  
Old 02-19-2018, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
100% agreed - I was sicken to hear the media talk more about the "AR15" and less about the lunatic crazy kid who showed a track record of crazy.

I hate the term "gun control" when, in fact it should be "people control".

Owning a firearm is a right not a privileged for those citizens who abide by the law and are not a risk to society.

My main point was trying to get more "people control" measures in place to prevent or at least reduce these types of senseless tragedies.

I would offer that we, as gun owners, should be PUSHING to move this agenda forward to reduce the bad press about "bad guns" not fighting it. I've always seemed to look st it from that perspective. What can we do more of to protect what we have?
Good read
Link doesn’t take you there just
click on the blog and social page for the “gun reform” blog

https://brenebrown.com/blog/2017/11/...ecting-change/
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  #38  
Old 02-19-2018, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 260 Rem View Post
A part of discussing the mass shootings in the USA has to include discussion regarding guns because they are a part of the equation. But, the phenomenon which is prevalent in the USA is complicated by the culture that has resulted in a general desensitization regarding gun violence. Canadians are different in that respect.
Yup, Hollywood actors making scads of violent shooting movies and then getting on the anti gun bandwagon off stage. Liam Neeson is a prime example.

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  #39  
Old 02-20-2018, 07:40 AM
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Interesting stats.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/0...ground-checks/
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  #40  
Old 02-20-2018, 09:00 AM
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Just as everyone else has, I have had anti gun zealots as well as people simply unfamiliar with firearms posting their thoughts on Facebook. When they aren’t informed about firearms they’re not armed with the information they need to comment on the subject so I’ve been taking the approach of not being argumentative, merely pointing out some facts and statistics about firearms and AR-15’s in particular. I do note that I feel licensing is a good thing, but that banning things is not.

People seemed to have a common curiosity as to why so many of these shootings had AR-15’s involved. I pointed out how common they were and drew a comparison to which most would be able to relate, I compared AR-15 production volume to the number of Toyota Corollas made. Everyone sees these common cars out and about during their daily lives, easily dozens per day in a city. I added Wikipedia numbers for Toyota Corolla production volume from 2000 to 2017 and got 5.6 million cars, in the slightly shorter time period of 2000-2014 the production of AR-15’s was 5.67 million. Nearly an identical number but it took 3 years less to achieve. The AR-15 number was from an article that cited the ATF as the source of their statistics, it was a slightly older article thus the ATF #’s ended in 2014 and seemed to be from a publication that was firearms friendly. Interestingly, around the early years covered in the chart, production numbers were under 100,000 but the last 3 years of the same chart production numbers were well over 1,000,000, so it would be fair to add at least another 3 million to the numbers for a total made in the last 17 years of around 8.6 million up to 10 million. If production numbers remained as low (likely lower) as the numbers for the the beginning of the chart for the 3 decades of sales then it might be between 2-3 million, so the first three decades saw less production than the last three years! Source article with some insightful charts: http://knowledgeglue.com/just-how-ma...are-out-there/

Anyways, take such numbers to which people can relate and then note how many of those Toyota’s will have been scrapped due to traffic accidents, wear & tear, corrosion, etc and stop to consider how few of the AR-15’s made in the same period will have been scrapped....

I also saw some moronic video of a guy proclaiming himself to be a gun owner giving a speech about his thoughts while holding up his pre-ban AR-15. He then runs it through his DeWalt abrasive chop saw, slicing the barrel down to about 4” and going through the hand guard and gas tube, but that rifle would still fire, (it would just need to be cycled manually) and he just made an illegal SBR on video for the ATF to see. A new barrel, gas tube and hand guard and it would still be good to go as he didn’t damage the lower receiver at all. The thing had over 10 million views yesterday.......
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  #41  
Old 02-20-2018, 09:37 AM
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I found this to be a thought-provoking post on the subject (pardon me if this has been posted already): FB Link here.
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  #42  
Old 02-20-2018, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo View Post
I found this to be a thought-provoking post on the subject (pardon me if this has been posted already): FB Link here.
That is a good post.

There have been so many logical and thought provoking commentaries since the shooting, but they are blatantly ignored by the anti's and the media. Their agenda is clear.
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  #43  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:37 AM
Diesel_wiesel Diesel_wiesel is offline
 
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all the back ground checks and mental stability checks
are not going to make a pinch of coon poop,
there are so many black market firearms in the US of A
that if a person wanted a firearm that person would have no problem acquiring one,
the problem has gone far past just doing back ground and mental stability checks , for the US of A,
it would and will work for the law abiding people, but where they have to crack down is the black market , off the street fire arms,
to say do back ground and mental stability checks to make it harder for the honest people to acquire firearms is fine, but that's like saying if they make guns illegal no one will get shot, they made drugs illegal that's how they stopped everyone from using drugs isn't it???
I don't believe there is one right answer, or combination of answers to fix their problem,
the biggest thing is fire arm education, most of these people have never witnessed a bullet wound on an animal let alone a human being
the most education most people get is from tv from watching a die hard movie or watching something that Arnold starred in,
it seems Hollywood has portrayed, the streets and cities and buildings in the US of A get blown up or is outlandish gun battles happen on a daily basis down there, and the youth of today have it in their minds this is perfectly acceptable, they have a problem between fantasy and reality
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  #44  
Old 02-20-2018, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RavYak View Post
The NRA and other groups/people oppose any and all changes to gun laws down there no matter how much sense they make.

You don't even need a license to purchase a firearm in many states. Completely ridiculous and it is not surprising that they have the highest firearm related issues of any developed nation.
If you remove DC, Chicago, New Orleans and I believe Los Angeles, the cities with the strictest gun laws, I might add, the US drops to 8 on the list... Food for thought.

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  #45  
Old 02-20-2018, 05:22 PM
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Well isn’t that something. You would think an assault weapons ban would have rendered this charachter harmless.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27371...ign=benshapiro

Quote:
Prosecutors in Maryland say that an 18-year-old man they arrested last week for bringing a gun to school also had grenades, a C-4 landmine detonator, a bulletproof vest, and “an AR-15 style rifle” in a state that has had an assault weapons ban in place for years.

Montgomery County Police charged the young man on February 15 “with possession of a handgun, possession of a firearm by a person under 21 years old and possession of a firearm on school property after the incident,” WJLA reported.


Prosecutors say that the accused student, who is being held without bond, had purportedly brought a gun to school once before in a separate incident.

The defense for the accused student claimed that he “has no evidence of mental health and that he has completely cooperated with authorities” and that he is “an honor roll student with scholarship offers from two universities.”
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  #46  
Old 02-20-2018, 05:31 PM
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Hehe, had to laugh at this one.

http://wnep.com/2018/02/19/parents-c...g-of-firearms/

Quote:
DREHER TOWNSHIP -- Parents are expressing concern after a church announced it will hold a ceremony next week, and worshipers are encouraged to bring assault weapons with them, and the ceremony will be just down the road from an elementary school.

The ceremony in Wayne County was planned before the mass shooting at a high school in Florida last week.

Church leaders still plan to go ahead with the blessing ceremony, which has some parents of elementary school students on edge.

Sanctuary Church and Rod of Iron Ministries are one in the same, run by the Moon family from South Korea who started the controversial Unification Church.

Church leaders tell Newswatch 16 that state police wanted to know what the ceremony next week involving AR-15-style rifles is all about.

At 10 a.m. next Wednesday, church leaders expect up to 600 people for a blessing ceremony, and many of those people are expected to be armed with AR-15s, the gun used in recent mass shootings across the country.

"This will be a big thing for us. It's a new stage for us because it incorporates the rod of iron, as it is in Revelations. Revelations talks about the returning Christ ruling with the rod of iron."

Tim Elder sat down with Newswatch 16 to explain the beliefs of the church, led by the Reverend Sean Moon.

Moon is the son of the late Sun Myung Moon, who founded the controversial Unification Church that drew national attention in the 1970s and '80s. The Rod of Iron Ministries is an offshoot of that religious organization focusing on what it believes is the right of families to defend themselves with assault weapons.

"This rod of iron is the AR-15, in today's terms."

The Moon family also owns Kahr Arms, a gunmaker that moved to Pike County a couple years ago. Newswatch 16 was at the opening ceremony at that time in Blooming Grove Township.

Church leaders say the AR-15s will not be loaded for the ceremony next week and safety zip ties will be used. However, state police are involved. Elder says troopers have reached out for more information.

Just down the road from the church is Wallenpaupack South Elementary School with 280 students, plus teachers and staff. In light of recent gun violence at schools, the planned ceremony with assault weapons is concerning for parents.

"It's something I would consider keeping my child home. It's scary," said Liz Zoccola.

"I wish they wouldn't have it at all. I don't think there's a good time to have it, especially this close," Kendra Hanor said.

The ceremony was planned before last week's deadly rampage at a high school in Florida.

Wallenpaupack Area school officials are deciding what, if anything, the school will do next Wednesday in response to the ceremony down the road.
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  #47  
Old 02-20-2018, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel_wiesel View Post
all the back ground checks and mental stability checks
are not going to make a pinch of coon poop,
there are so many black market firearms in the US of A
that if a person wanted a firearm that person would have no problem acquiring one,
the problem has gone far past just doing back ground and mental stability checks , for the US of A,
it would and will work for the law abiding people, but where they have to crack down is the black market , off the street fire arms,
to say do back ground and mental stability checks to make it harder for the honest people to acquire firearms is fine, but that's like saying if they make guns illegal no one will get shot, they made drugs illegal that's how they stopped everyone from using drugs isn't it???
I don't believe there is one right answer, or combination of answers to fix their problem,
the biggest thing is fire arm education, most of these people have never witnessed a bullet wound on an animal let alone a human being
the most education most people get is from tv from watching a die hard movie or watching something that Arnold starred in,
it seems Hollywood has portrayed, the streets and cities and buildings in the US of A get blown up or is outlandish gun battles happen on a daily basis down there, and the youth of today have it in their minds this is perfectly acceptable, they have a problem between fantasy and reality
I understand your position - and you are right - tragedies will still happen and no law will prevent all incidents.

However, If we, as gun owners do nothing, the antis will push for a BAN and the topic will further polarise this issue. That is a war we may not win - so, IMO, we should get on the same page and reach a consensus.

The agenda is to save lives and avoid these tragedies.

If we, as a group, focus on this as a "people control" issue versus a "gun control" issue it may change perspectives on both sides of the argument.

We can, as gun advocates, initiate comprehensive background checks and screening protocols designed to eliminate any possibility of a person who has been deemed to be risk to legally purchase a firearm then we have satisfied the need for action and have come to the table first.

The reality is, strictly from a pragmatic perspective, that these regulations may have the effect as designed .... and perhaps a person on the high risk list will have to seek other (illegal) conduits to acquire a firearm and that increases his chance of getting busted and/or facing additional charges.

It could lead to a tragedy like this being prevented.

No law will ever prevent everything - because people break laws - but doing nothing isn't an option.

I have carefully considered the "slippery slope" part of this position, but at the end of the day, we are about preventing tragedies whilst retaining our rights to ownership without unreasonable restriction.

Just my 2 cents anyways.
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  #48  
Old 02-20-2018, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
I understand your position - and you are right - tragedies will still happen and no law will prevent all incidents.

However, If we, as gun owners do nothing, the antis will push for a BAN and the topic will further polarise this issue. That is a war we may not win - so, IMO, we should get on the same page and reach a consensus.

The agenda is to save lives and avoid these tragedies.

If we, as a group, focus on this as a "people control" issue versus a "gun control" issue it may change perspectives on both sides of the argument.

We can, as gun advocates, initiate comprehensive background checks and screening protocols designed to eliminate any possibility of a person who has been deemed to be risk to legally purchase a firearm then we have satisfied the need for action and have come to the table first.

The reality is, strictly from a pragmatic perspective, that these regulations may have the effect as designed .... and perhaps a person on the high risk list will have to seek other (illegal) conduits to acquire a firearm and that increases his chance of getting busted and/or facing additional charges.

It could lead to a tragedy like this being prevented.

No law will ever prevent everything - because people break laws - but doing nothing isn't an option.

I have carefully considered the "slippery slope" part of this position, but at the end of the day, we are about preventing tragedies whilst retaining our rights to ownership without unreasonable restriction.

Just my 2 cents anyways.
I also believe we shouldn't "do nothing" .

We should protect schools as well as the country protects its gold. Teachers should be armed. So on and so forth.

There isn't only one way out of this.
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  #49  
Old 02-20-2018, 06:21 PM
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I found this interesting.

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  #50  
Old 02-20-2018, 09:38 PM
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I also find that interesting.

But not surprising.
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  #51  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:29 PM
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Its the RCMP doesn't surprise me at all. Do we know how much money is wasted on this do nothing bunch?
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  #52  
Old 02-21-2018, 07:34 AM
Diesel_wiesel Diesel_wiesel is offline
 
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we live in a society where people are eating laundry soap i dont believe guns are the problem
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  #53  
Old 02-21-2018, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gifted Intuitive View Post
The laws and regulations that exist in Canada are created, administered and enforced by the RCMP and other police organizations.

Please read this :

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rges-1.4443124

This statement by the RCMP confirms that their laws and regulations does not prevent anyone from acquiring and possessing firearms. The RCMP are showing you firearms that can be in the hands of anyone wanting to commit any type of crime, crimes comparable to American mass shootings.

Guns don't commit terrible, terrible crimes. People do. It takes a community to raise a child. It takes a community to raise a demon. Canadians have to see themselves as a society builder with a social fabric connected by forgiveness and compassion.

The US doesn't need our gun laws. The US needs our values.

Not all our values as we are far from perfect....
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  #54  
Old 02-21-2018, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Diesel_wiesel View Post
we live in a society where people are eating laundry soap i dont believe guns are the problem
You are 100% right but those folks having access to guns is also a problem.
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  #55  
Old 02-21-2018, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Diesel_wiesel View Post
we live in a society where people are eating laundry soap i dont believe guns are the problem
Haha. Nailed it.
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  #56  
Old 02-21-2018, 01:00 PM
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Student activism is going to change some things. Early days reminds me of the 60's that swept the US.
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  #57  
Old 02-21-2018, 04:01 PM
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Even if background checks are implemented to prevent mentally ill from buying guns, the mentally ill will still be able to get their hands on guns through the black market that is alive and well.
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  #58  
Old 02-21-2018, 06:10 PM
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Yes we should do background checks, and we should not allow people that have violent or ctiminal backgrounds to possess firearms. But here in Canada I keep seeing case after case where people that have been prohibited from owning firearms, are found possessing firearms. Obviously the prohibitions are not working, so unless we deal with the offenders much more harshly, the prohibitions mean nothing. Take the Stanley incident as an example, the individuals in the vehicle were prohibited from owning firearms, yet they were impaired and had a loaded firearm in the vehicle.
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  #59  
Old 02-21-2018, 06:28 PM
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Probably no charges either. Plea bargaining???
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:32 PM
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Seat belts and airbags save lives and reduce injuries ... not every time, but enough to stay with the program.
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