Using Alberta outfitters

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

It’s common knowledge residents hunt through illegal ways. What’s your point?

the point is that residents that pay for land access are generally not profiting from it. outfitters do.

hypothetical of course, if it is happening,,,,,

[JDK71]

I would never let an outfitter hunt my land

[boah]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

It’s common knowledge residents hunt through illegal ways. What’s your point?

For starters, nobody asked about resident hunters. My response was to a specific question about outfitters on private land. To explain my point, some want private unavailable to outfitters for the reason I mentioned. But, you knew that and just wanted to stir the pot.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

the point is that residents that pay for land access are generally not profiting from it. outfitters do.

hypothetical of course, if it is happening,,,,,

I have never heard of residents paying for land access, I suppose it might happen but I am thinking it would be really rare especially for birds.

Outfitters get special treatment when it comes to profiting off the wildlife in Alberta, for landowners and other residents it's illegal but legal for outfitters. Never quite understood the reasoning there.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by bobalong

I have never heard of residents paying for land access, I suppose it might happen but I am thinking it would be really rare especially for birds.

Outfitters get special treatment when it comes to profiting off the wildlife in Alberta, for landowners and other residents it's illegal but legal for outfitters. Never quite understood the reasoning there.

They get special treatment like paying corporate taxes, buying supplies from local merchants and employing workers ?

Ahhhh ! That economy again. You’re right, let’s get ride of it all and live like NDP’s and Liberal’s !!!!!

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

They get special treatment like paying corporate taxes, buying supplies from local merchants and employing workers ?

Ahhhh ! That economy again. You’re right, let’s get ride of it all and live like NDP’s and Liberal’s !!!!!

Nice try but what other company has the govt. or a resident pay for land and then just give it to you free to use but you can then make money off of it. Sweetheart deal for sure.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

They get special treatment like paying corporate taxes, buying supplies from local merchants and employing workers ?

Ahhhh ! That economy again. You’re right, let’s get ride of it all and live like NDP’s and Liberal’s !!!!!

Um, I don't think that is the reluctance for many hunters to embrace outfitters. My guess is that many feel that wildlife is owned by all, and that some of that wildlife, Albertans have to wait 5- 7- 9-13 years for, when a foreigner with deep pockets can come in and get it with no wait. I begrudge no one an honest living, but wildlife is a public resource, and when the public has limited access to that resource, there will always be tensions and resentment. If there were no draw system for the species an outfitter sell hunts for, then I don't think there would be much of a problem.

I hope you make great $ on your bear and moose operation. I hope Nube makes great $ on his waterfowl operations. He takes away no opportunity away from me or anyone else for that matter. I know your operation is largely in BC, where if I want, I can call up my friend in Ft St John and go shoot a moose, which I have done a number of times. Again, no opportunity is being taken away from residents. I think that antelope/sheep likely cause more tension than any other species.

Hope that makes sense.

[marky_mark]

I think it’s crazy that as a resident you can’t buy an allocation from an outfitter if you don’t get a draw. It take 9 years or so to get some draws. Would be nice to have more opportunities than waiting a decade for a tag. Most Alberta outfitter rates are a bargain compared to travelling elsewhere. Why not support our own people?

[bossmann]

Originally Posted by dustinjoels

I never really understood why outfitters can’t sell allocation tags to residents. I get that it creates a divide between the rich and poor, but someone with money is buying that tag anyways so might as well be an albertan if they are willing to spend the money.

correct me if im wrong but i do believe the non-resident tags are only to be used by non-Albertans. now the reason they are not available to Albertans is that we already have access to the draw system and we can get resident tags and use them with an outfitter if we choose to, make that arrangement.

If i wanted to hunt with an outfitter i would contact a few ( just like i was looking for any vacation ) and ask them the options. I suspect some will say to simply pic up a tag or draw the tag and your welcome to attend.

I hear of outfitters taking resident hunters often.
Then again maybe they dont want to take you and show off there "secret spot" to someone who will invite the whole family next year.

That being said, in my opinion the non-resident tags are there to allow non-residents a rare opportunity to hunt in Alberta. Just as im sure some of us dream of hunting Yukon moose, Wyoming Antelope or BC grizzly (RIP BC HUNT).
If we where to allow Resident Albertans to hunt with non- resident tags that would defeat the whole purpose.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by bobalong

Nice try but what other company has the govt. or a resident pay for land and then just give it to you free to use but you can then make money off of it. Sweetheart deal for sure.

Why is it free ? Outfitters pay every year to hold allocations and non residents pay higher licensing costs to the government.
Just like oil and gas, mining or logging. It’s all utilizing a natural resource and everybody benefits from the sale and profits from extraction or utilization because taxes are paid and money is put back into the economy through operating expenses.
So I guess if you want to call any business that utilizes Natural Resources from crown or private land a “Sweatheart deal” then so be it.

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

They get special treatment like paying corporate taxes, buying supplies from local merchants and employing workers ?

Ahhhh ! That economy again. You’re right, let’s get ride of it all and live like NDP’s and Liberal’s !!!!!

Yes. Regular mother Theresa's.

[bossmann]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Just like oil and gas, mining or logging. It’s all utilizing a natural resource and everybody benefits from the sale and profits from extraction or utilization because taxes are paid and money is put back into the economy through operating expenses.
So I guess if you want to call any business that utilizes Natural Resources from crown or private land a “Sweatheart deal” then so be it.

i guess so..... why would wildlife be treated any different than any other renewable resource?

i wonder how non resident licence review compares to resident?

we need to build a moose pipeline from newfound land

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by sns2

Um, I don't think that is the reluctance for many hunters to embrace outfitters. My guess is that many feel that wildlife is owned by all, and that some of that wildlife, Albertans have to wait 5- 7- 9-13 years for, when a foreigner with deep pockets can come in and get it with no wait. I begrudge no one an honest living, but wildlife is a public resource, and when the public has limited access to that resource, there will always be tensions and resentment. If there were no draw system for the species an outfitter sell hunts for, then I don't think there would be much of a problem.

I hope you make great $ on your bear and moose operation. I know your operation is largely in BC, where if I want, I can call up my friend in Ft St John and go shoot a moose, which I have done a number of times. And it's even easier for residents. I think that antelope/sheep likely cause more tension than any other species.

Hope that makes sense.

Do you think there’s resentment because residents can’t go drill their own oil or natural gas well ?
How about because you can’t log off timber blocks for personal use ?
Can you go sink a mine shaft and look for Orr? Or perhaps mine off some overburdened ground in the high country and extract some coal for you and the family?

Those are all natural resources owned by the crown that are sold and extracted by private companies who pay taxes, employ people and put money back into our economy.

So what is the difference????

You don’t want coal so you don’t care about the mining company? If we let individuals pick and choose which sectors of the economy they wished to allow to continue there would be a demographic against every one of them and nothing would be allowed to take place.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by bossmann

i guess so..... why would wildlife be treated any different than any other renewable resource?

i wonder how non resident licence review compares to resident?

we need to build a moose pipeline from newfound land

It shouldn’t be treated any differently, it’s all a publicly owned resource controlled by the government that is utilized to bring in revenue.

The non resident license review and resident license review go hand in hand. Right now the word on the street is the Outfitters are about to get absolutely hammered on moose allocations, time will tell I suppose.

Newfoundland has its own problems right now too 😉

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

It shouldn’t be treated any differently, it’s all a publicly owned resource controlled by the government that is utilized to bring in revenue.

The non resident license review and resident license review go hand in hand. Right now the word on the street is the Outfitters are about to get absolutely hammered on moose allocations, time will tell I suppose.

Newfoundland has its own problems right now too 😉

You mean Outfitters allocations will be decreased, along with resident opportunities to hunt, for the purpose of wildlife sustainability?

When will the insanity end!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

You mean Outfitters allocations will be decreased, along with resident opportunities to hunt, for the purpose of wildlife sustainability?

When will the insanity end!

You mean just like several years ago when resident pronghorn tags were reduced by over 90%, and the outfitters allocations were cut by 0% in response to a decline in the Alberta pronghorn population?

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

You mean Outfitters allocations will be decreased, along with resident opportunities to hunt, for the purpose of wildlife sustainability?

When will the insanity end!

This is about shifting harvest opportunities to another demographic. Overall there will be no fewer animals killed.

I’m 100% for wildlife sustainability, after all if we killed our our moose and caribou in my area I outfit, what would I do ? I can’t just drive an hour down the road and hunt somewhere else. Outfitters by far have the most interest vested in seeing sustainable use of wildlife in their own particular areas

[cowboyhunter]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

This is about shifting harvest opportunities to another demographic. Overall there will be no fewer animals killed.

I’m 100% for wildlife sustainability, after all if we killed our our moose and caribou in my area I outfit, what would I do ? I can’t just drive an hour down the road and hunt somewhere else. Outfitters by far have the most interest vested in seeing sustainable use of wildlife in their own particular areas

That statement makes me sick !!

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by cowboyhunter

That statement makes me sick !!

What statement is that sir ?

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

This is about shifting harvest opportunities to another demographic. Overall there will be no fewer animals killed.

I’m 100% for wildlife sustainability, after all if we killed our our moose and caribou in my area I outfit, what would I do ? I can’t just drive an hour down the road and hunt somewhere else. Outfitters by far have the most interest vested in seeing sustainable use of wildlife in their own particular areas

So I guess that would be one reason for outfitter who hunt private land to pay off landowners. keep residents out and game numbers up.

Hypothetically of course,,,,,,,

[cowboyhunter]

Originally Posted by cowboyhunter

That statement makes me sick !!

I don’t know anybody that has more of a vested interest in our wildlife than us as residents of Alberta. My family has 4 generations that has hunted here and fed their families.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

So I guess that would be one reason for outfitter who hunt private land to pay off landowners. keep residents out and game numbers up.

Hypothetically of course,,,,,,,

I’m 100% sure that some Alberta outfitters have paid landowners for exclusive access. I’m also 100% sure that some Alberta residents have paid landowners for exclusive access.
All 3 groups were breaking the law and they were wrong in doing so. I’m pretty sure we can all agree that there are bad apples in every group. Fortunately the bad apples aren’t the norm, nor the majority.

I’ve been Outfitting on private land for almost 20 years and I’ve never paid a landowner a dime. I’ve never had to and plenty of times they’ve given me exclusive access without ever asking for it, just being polite to farmers and being upfront with them most times locks it up.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by cowboyhunter

I don’t know anybody that has more of a vested interest in our wildlife than us as residents of Alberta. My family has 4 generations that has hunted here and fed their families.

So hypothetically if the moose hunting went downhill in WMU 777, could you drive 30 miles down the road next year and hunt WMU 778 ?

[cowboyhunter]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

So hypothetically if the moose hunting went downhill in WMU 777, could you drive 30 miles down the road next year and hunt WMU 778 ?

So can the outfitters! They just cry to the higher ups in Edmonton and they alter their wmu’s. Apos has all those people in bed with them and have a free rein over what happens with the tags.

[bossmann]

Originally Posted by cowboyhunter

So can the outfitters!

I'm no so sure that's true. Can Alberta outfitter just switch to another unit in Alberta each year and follow the "good hunting"?

I want to hunt with the guy who outfits those big bulls in Suffield!
Anyone know who that is?

I was also thinking. if you have deep pockets couldn't you just buy the ministers tag and hire any outfitter that would take you?

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Why is it free ? Outfitters pay every year to hold allocations and non residents pay higher licensing costs to the government.
Just like oil and gas, mining or logging. It’s all utilizing a natural resource and everybody benefits from the sale and profits from extraction or utilization because taxes are paid and money is put back into the economy through operating expenses.
So I guess if you want to call any business that utilizes Natural Resources from crown or private land a “Sweatheart deal” then so be it.

Nice try again, but no one but outfitters are allowed to make a profit off the killing of wildlife. It is actually illegal for anyone else, hardly the same as the other businesses you mentioned but then you know that.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Do you think there’s resentment because residents can’t go drill their own oil or natural gas well ?
How about because you can’t log off timber blocks for personal use ?
Can you go sink a mine shaft and look for Orr? Or perhaps mine off some overburdened ground in the high country and extract some coal for you and the family?

Those are all natural resources owned by the crown that are sold and extracted by private companies who pay taxes, employ people and put money back into our economy.

So what is the difference???? THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS OIL AND GAS COMPANIES HAVE TO PAY FOR THE LAND THEY USE.
Once again you are way off the mark.
You don’t want coal so you don’t care about the mining company? If we let individuals pick and choose which sectors of the economy they wished to allow to continue there would be a demographic against every one of them and nothing would be allowed to take place.

.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by bossmann

I'm no so sure that's true. Can Alberta outfitter just switch to another unit in Alberta each year and follow the "good hunting"?

I want to hunt with the guy who outfits those big bulls in Suffield!
Anyone know who that is?

I was also thinking. if you have deep pockets couldn't you just buy the ministers tag and hire any outfitter that would take you?

No minister tag for moose
Two. our Canadian dollar sucks and it’s auctioned off in usd
Some years it’s purchased by residents
I believe this year the elk tag was bought by a local
Think it was 17k usd

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by cowboyhunter

So can the outfitters! They just cry to the higher ups in Edmonton and they alter their wmu’s. Apos has all those people in bed with them and have a free rein over what happens with the tags.

I’m not sure who’s been lying to you, but I promise if one of my WMUs got hammered by natural or man made causes I didn’t get to switch areas. I was **** out of luck. Nothing to hunt and no compensation from anybody.
It’s the exact same as where I am now in BC, if I over utilized my resource I’m done. Investment is gone and I can’t sell hunts. I can’t simply say “oops” and go hunt the area next to me.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by bossmann

I'm no so sure that's true. Can Alberta outfitter just switch to another unit in Alberta each year and follow the "good hunting"?

Not a chance!!!! lol. You’re exactly right

That only happens in people’s fantasy worlds of jealousy