2013 Archery Mule deer going on Draw

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by H380

I have no problem with a draw if it can be proven to be needed. The problem I have is where SRD comes up with their harvest figures . If a mandatory hunter registration is not in place there is no way they can accurately decide what to do with the seasons. And I don't just mean harvest rates , all hunters should be required to fill out a survey , whether they make a kill or not . Putting figures to paper that don't exist just because " they heard that so and so got a deer " doesn't cut it with me . Sorry .

X2 , That's what most of us are trying to say!

The rest either have the sky is falling mentality or perhaps a hidden agenda!

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Ignorance without facts....hmmm mm

If I told you your wife was cheating on you, would run to your lawyer and get divorce papers, or would you Attempt to figure out the truth first and make a rational, educated decision based on actual facts?



Don't panic, I have no idea if she is! It was just scenario!

You do realize it was this same horribly flawed system that determined the fate of crossbows in Alberta...right? Some of you guys crack me up.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

You do realize it was this same horribly flawed system that determined the fate of crossbows in Alberta...right? Some of you guys crack me up.

What? crossbows hunters had their women run off with other men?

You lost me!

[H380]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

What? crossbows hunters had their women run off with other men?

You lost me!

Too funny !! The best post on here so far !

[bb356]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

You do realize it was this same horribly flawed system that determined the fate of crossbows in Alberta...right? Some of you guys crack me up.

[mulecrazy]

clarification please.

I understand that the 15.85% is the number of tags sold. correct? Its not the actual harvest numbers?

Also, Is this a 1 year thing or a 5 year average?

If they are basing this solely on last year, then I have confirmation that the ESRD is a bunch of clowns. When mulie buck tags go from 460 to 10, you better believe that the ratio of bow to rifle hunters would be high. This is not the way it should be looked at. Yes the hunter numbers and harvest ratios may have been out of whack last year. But that is not even close to a typical year. There will be variances but to rush to judgement without having all the facts straight is a joke. picking specific zones and putting them off and on draws to try and get that magic 15% WILL create a lot of confusion in a system already filled with footnotes in the regs book.

If in fact it is put on draw, they better make it a seperate draw code like antelope.

15.86% is the percentage of Alberta hunters that purchase a bow hunting permit.

From the brief presentation I saw, the harvest numbers are indeed a trend over a number of years and not a single year snapshot.

[trophyboy]

This is nothing more than another lost opportunity for resident hunters if indeed it happens. I have bowhunted for several years and have seen very very few bowhunters and those that are out are only interested in harvesting trophy bucks usually so as I see it very few deer actually get killed with a bow. How about we start to target the non residents, and outfitters tags. They do next to nothing for our Alberta resources but take.

Why is it the average Joe ALWAYS gets dekcuf on everything in this province? Anyone know? What are we doing wrong?

[pottymouth]

As previously stated a majority of guys do both, rifle and bow hunt ! Now if guys have to pick between drawing for archery or rifle draw.I believe the fact that guys want more of a sure thing, alot of bowhunters would start picking rifle over bows! The dedicated archers might still stay true, but most wont!

I, and my circle of friends for example could have pulled 3 rifle draws with our priority we have in most zones! Instead we have been building points! If it goes on draw I 'll pull my rifle tag, every year it comes up!

The draw times are gonna go up for rifle guys, the way I see and have discussed this scenario with others!

But the nay sayers will say it's still the same amount of people drawing, but the frequency and the weapon will change !

[hal53]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

As previously stated a majority of guys do both, rifle and bow hunt ! Now if guys have to pick between drawing for archery or rifle draw.I believe the fact that guys want more of a sure thing, alot of bowhunters would start picking rifle over bows! The dedicated archers might still stay true, but most wont!

I, and my circle of friends for example could have pulled 3 rifle draws with our priority we have in most zones! Instead we have been building points! If it goes on draw I 'll pull my rifle tag, every year it comes up!

The draw times are gonna go up for rifle guys, the way I see and have discussed this scenario with others!

But the nay sayers will say it's still the same amount of people drawing, but the frequency and the weapon will change !

You seem like a pretty dedicated bowhunter, but yet, you and your friends are applying for rifle draws as well....??? so you have lots of priority..nice...but you will bowhunt and cut a rifle guy out, who doesn't have as much priority???...kind of confusing here... ???...when it goes on draw then, with your points , you should have your choice of where you want to hunt???...can't see the problem, other than you want to hunt 2 1/2 months of the year, and everyone else should hunt 1 month???

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by hal53

You seem like a pretty dedicated bowhunter, but yet, you and your friends are applying for rifle draws as well....??? so you have lots of priority..nice...but you will bowhunt and cut a rifle guy out, who doesn't have as much priority???...kind of confusing here... ???...when it goes on draw then, with your points , you should have your choice of where you want to hunt???...can't see the problem, other than you want to hunt 2 1/2 months of the year, and everyone else should hunt 1 month???

Pick up a bow and you can too!

This really isn't a rifle vs. bow thing. Many guys who archery hunt (likely most) also use a rifle.

A friend of mine used to never put in for draws, he bow hunted available general seasons every year and then when it went on draw he had NO PRIORITY.....I can't blame anyone for putting in for everything no matter what they choose to use rifle or bow. Keep in mind archery isn't general everywhere you go.

LC

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by trophyboy

This is nothing more than another lost opportunity for resident hunters if indeed it happens. I have bowhunted for several years and have seen very very few bowhunters and those that are out are only interested in harvesting trophy bucks usually so as I see it very few deer actually get killed with a bow. How about we start to target the non residents, and outfitters tags. They do next to nothing for our Alberta resources but take.

Why is it the average Joe ALWAYS gets dekcuf on everything in this province? Anyone know? What are we doing wrong?

Exactly, the majority of bowhunters I know don't kill very often, but sure enjoy spending a lot of time at it.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Pick up a bow and you can too!

This really isn't a rifle vs. bow thing. Many guys who archery hunt (likely most) also use a rifle.

A friend of mine used to never put in for draws he bow hunted available general seasons every year and then when it went on draw he had NO PRIORITY.....I can't blame anyone for putting in for everything no matter what they choose to use rifle or bow. Keep in mind archery isn't general everywhere you go.

LC

I completely agree, and yes I used to bowhunt, but it gets a little tiring about everyone looking after their little corner of the sand box, and damn what the deer #'s are doing....I posted here earlier in the thread that , maybe instead of a draw, they could cut the bow season to 2 weeks?....the silence was deafening...

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by hal53

I completely agree, and yes I used to bowhunt, but it gets a little tiring about everyone looking after their little corner of the sand box, and damn what the deer #'s are doing....I posted here earlier in the thread that , maybe instead of a draw, they could cut the bow season to 2 weeks?....the silence was deafening...

I think that most bowhunters would support shortened general seasons over having it all on draw only. Provided the data they used to determine this was statistically accurate.

Of course depending on the species the timing of each season would have a large impact on success rates.

LC

[Icefisher2885]

Who can bowhunters email or call to voice their opinion on this topic? I , for one, would be incredibly disappointed to lose the general mule deer season. Archery mule deer, along with archery elk hunting, are undoubtedly my biggest passions.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Icefisher2885

Who can bowhunters email or call to voice their opinion on this topic? I , for one, would be incredibly disappointed to lose the general mule deer season. Archery mule deer, along with archery elk hunting, are undoubtedly my biggest passions.

WOW!!!!...you get to hunt them every year????....I'm P7 for Elk this year , probably won't get it,,,and P3 for Mulies ( fingers crossed)
....and before somebody says "take up bowhunting"....does anyone else not see the problem with this????

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by hal53

You seem like a pretty dedicated bowhunter, but yet, you and your friends are applying for rifle draws as well....??? so you have lots of priority..nice...but you will bowhunt and cut a rifle guy out, who doesn't have as much priority???...kind of confusing here... ???...when it goes on draw then, with your points , you should have your choice of where you want to hunt???...can't see the problem, other than you want to hunt 2 1/2 months of the year, and everyone else should hunt 1 month???

Hal, I run on average about 1 buck per 4-5 years ! I hunt almost everyday per season, and pass more bucks than most people do! But at the end of the cycle I want something on my wall ! A rifle almost guarentee's me a buck ! So if I have to wait 4-5 years to draw, I want to make sure I have something to show for it !

My mentality as a very selective trophy hunter, because of my opportunity, turns into more about worrying about my own sandbox now ! I know that alot my group and archer I have been talking to feel the same !

I'm a trophy hunter pure and simple, but Srd has no room for trophy hunters in this province. But yet, right now I give opportunity to other guys, by not taking my draws. I only shoot the deer I want, so if it takes me 10 years to drop a buck ..so be it! I never shoot one just to fill a tag, so that again more opportunity for someone else!

and NO, I don't think everyone should be like me! And Yes I happy and thrilled for anyone that harvest anything, Buck or Doe, as long as they are happy with what they have taken!

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by hal53

WOW!!!!...you get to hunt them every year????....I'm P7 for Elk this year , probably won't get it,,,and P3 for Mulies ( fingers crossed)
....and before somebody says "take up bowhunting"....does anyone else not see the problem with this????

Only if you believe that the bow and the rifle have equal capacities ! Then it's wrong IMO

[25-06rem.model700]

Why not also put it back to four point trophy, the only downside I can see to that is the chance of a three point genetic taking over just like five point elk did in the ya ha

[Icefisher2885]

Originally Posted by hal53

WOW!!!!...you get to hunt them every year????....I'm P7 for Elk this year , probably won't get it,,,and P3 for Mulies ( fingers crossed)
....and before somebody says "take up bowhunting"....does anyone else not see the problem with this????

Guess what, there is this crazy thing out there called a general elk tag that includes rifle use - OMG YOU CAN HUNT THEM WITH YOUR GUN EVERY YEAR TOO! *CELEBRATIONS*

I archery hunt elk in the cypress hills and get the privilege of hunting outside the park (when those drawn for rifle get to hunt inside) on a hunt that has a whopping 5% success rate among bowhunters. I've enjoyed success on this hunt because I've put in the ridiculous amount of effort it takes to learn the habits of border elk, but such luck is certainly not the norm.

You can put in for any number of zones that wouldn't require you to wait 7 years to hunt elk, the fact that you are waiting that long is your choice. I'm a priority 2 for Suffield elk - NOT FAIR - I want to hunt there NOW! Oh wait, in the mean time I can buy a general rifle tag and hunt any number of zones...No, wait again! I can't do that because by buying my Cypress Hills tag I am limited to hunting those park zones alone, and I am done come October 15 - YOU are the one that gets more opportunity than I in this case. Do I care? Hell no, I love to archery hunt the Cypress Hills and don't mind losing out on an entire month and a half that I would get if I chose to hunt elsewhere.

I'm a priority 4 for mule deer - I don't see what that has to do with anything? Nothing is stopping you from learning to hunt with a bow. You can say "let's not bring up that argument" all you want, bottom line is that's what it comes down to.

[jack88]

So maybe a full decade of mass migration to Alberta has finally reached its breaking point regarding our wildlife ( and lakes to that extent). I find that these numbers and %'s being tossed around have no credibility.
Bowhunting has become so popular because of the extra time allotted in the field. This does not translate to higher success overall but in theory should actually water down the bow hunter harvest numbers.
Hopefully, bowhunting and the lack of success will begin to frustrate the masses in the next few years and we will see a glutton of bows for sale. Until then, cut mulie doe tags, the hell with outfitters and their demand for tags no matter the current wildlife situation, and someone please introduce me to these "super archers" that seem to be ghosts in our forests and prairies which have such high success rates.
Putting archery seasons onto draw would maybe reduce the number of guys who pick up a bow at Cabelas mid August and be game shape ready come September 1. Giving anything up now will most likely result in it not coming back in the distant future. Alberta's full, close the door.

People have to realize that it's not their fault, this has been gross mismanagment on the upper level. We have given them, for the most part, the surverys they wanted. Beleive the numbers of not. We have a government that needs to be more like SASK and tell non-residents to stuff it when it comes to certain species. Mind you sask has 1/3 of the population that Alberta does.

Actually the poor/unsuccessful bowhunters aren't the problem, nor are the sheer number of bow hunters. It's the guys killing animals that are pushing things over the 15% harvest cap.

[jack88]

Until a specific WMU by WMU breakdown comes out, these numbers are all bunk.

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Actually the poor/unsuccessful bowhunters aren't the problem, nor are the sheer number of bow hunters. It's the guys killing animals that are pushing things over the 15% harvest cap.

Thats rich. The only thing they know for sure is that they don't know how many are being killed. You have yourself said that the 15.85% is the number of licenses sold. Licenses sold does not equate to harvest. Since it is common sense that success rates are much lower for archery (likely well less than half that of rifle) then that number would undoubtedly fall well below 15% and closer to 5-7% of actual harvest.

At home and at work I refuse to do something that I do not have all the facts. I don't open a pig sender unless I verify multiple ways that the pressure is gone. It should be no different with the ESRD, they should not make such massive changes unless they have all the facts. They are operating on assumptions and extrapolation of data.

[jack88]

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

Thats rich. The only thing they know for sure is that they don't know how many are being killed. You have yourself said that the 15.85% is the number of licenses sold. Licenses sold does not equate to harvest. Since it is common sense that success rates are much lower for archery (likely well less than half that of rifle) then that number would undoubtedly fall well below 15% and closer to 5-7% of actual harvest.

At home and at work I refuse to do something that I do not have all the facts. I don't open a pig sender unless I verify multiple ways that the pressure is gone. It should be no different with the ESRD, they should not make such massive changes unless they have all the facts. They are operating on assumptions and extrapolation of data.

Thanks, Sheep's answer was so bad that I couldnt even come up with something clever but your response will do!

[The Bit Runner.]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Actually the poor/unsuccessful bowhunters aren't the problem, nor are the sheer number of bow hunters. It's the guys killing animals that are pushing things over the 15% harvest cap.

I know i said i was done with this thread but sheep where are you getting that info from? Thats the harvest cap by bowhunters thats exceeding 15%. You always state the facts but this is far from the truth and you know it!!!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

I know i said i was done with this thread but sheep where are you getting that info from? Thats the harvest cap by bowhunters thats exceeding 15%. You always state the facts but this is far from the truth and you know it!!!

The survey knows best....

LC

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

I know i said i was done with this thread but sheep where are you getting that info from? Thats the harvest cap by bowhunters thats exceeding 15%. You always state the facts but this is far from the truth and you know it!!!

ESRD...the guys that make the rules.

How do you know what I know???? Sure lots of people telling what I know, what I said and what I think in this thread. I have absolutely zero doubt that archers are harvesting more than 15% of the antlered mule deer in SOME WMUs. Your head would have to be buried pretty deep in the sand not to see that.

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

The survey knows best....

LC

It kept crossbows out of archery season....I didn't hear you complaining about its accuracy then

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

It kept crossbows out of archery season....I didn't hear you complaining about its accuracy then

I wasn't even aware of that so hard to complain when you don't know.

LC