A bullets ability to effectively kill game.

[duffy4]

Was having a conversation with a couple of guys the other day about cartridges and bullets and accuracy and reloading and such.

We ended up agreeing on a number of factors that make a bullet an effective hunting bullet.

1. The bullet has to have some degree of accuracy. You have to hit an animal in the vitals to kill it. So greater velocity will flatten the trajectory and make it easier to make shots at longer ranges but sometimes you loose accuracy with increased velocity. And if you figure most of your shots at game are within a certain range then "good" accuracy within that range is most important.

2. A bullet must be able to perform well inside the animal. It has to penetrate and do massive tissue damage. It is good for it to exit and leave the extra hole for blood trailing. If i had to give up MOA accuracy to use a better bullet for penetration and expansion I would.

So the "best bullet" may not be the fastest bullet or the most "hair splitting" accurate bullet or the bullet that expands the best or the bullet that penetrates the best. It has to be a combination of those factors.


A 140 grain nosler partition 7mm bullet can be a very effective killing bullet when fired from a 7mm Rem mag. or a 280 Rem. or a 7mm08 or a .284 win. or a 7X57 mauser. If it has sufficient velocity to be reasonably "flat" shooting and reasonable accuracy.

[Albertadiver]

My bullets go boom. Deer goes down. Dead.

Easy.

[Matt L.]

Now that's science!!

[Tracker34]

180 gr ballistic silvertips with 70 gr. of IMR 4350 pushing it does the trick for me. Zero in to 260 yards and point blank range is out to about 325 yards. When that puppy connects with the ribs of a deed, elk, moose..., it's like throwing a Volkswagon through it. Just try not to hit shoulder. Makes a mess.

[Tracker34]

By the way. That's out of a 300 Win. Mag.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by duffy4

Was having a conversation with a couple of guys the other day about cartridges and bullets and accuracy and reloading and such.

We ended up agreeing on a number of factors that make a bullet an effective hunting bullet.

1. The bullet has to have some degree of accuracy. You have to hit an animal in the vitals to kill it. So greater velocity will flatten the trajectory and make it easier to make shots at longer ranges but sometimes you loose accuracy with increased velocity. And if you figure most of your shots at game are within a certain range then "good" accuracy within that range is most important.

2. A bullet must be able to perform well inside the animal. It has to penetrate and do massive tissue damage. It is good for it to exit and leave the extra hole for blood trailing. If i had to give up MOA accuracy to use a better bullet for penetration and expansion I would.

So the "best bullet" may not be the fastest bullet or the most "hair splitting" accurate bullet or the bullet that expands the best or the bullet that penetrates the best. It has to be a combination of those factors.


A 140 grain nosler partition 7mm bullet can be a very effective killing bullet when fired from a 7mm Rem mag. or a 280 Rem. or a 7mm08 or a .284 win. or a 7X57 mauser. If it has sufficient velocity to be reasonably "flat" shooting and reasonable accuracy.

Were these "couple of guys" still in grade 3?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by chuck

Were these "couple of guys" still in grade 3?

Why? You think they might be in your home room?

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by duffy4

Was having a conversation with a couple of guys the other day about cartridges and bullets and accuracy and reloading and such.

We ended up agreeing on a number of factors that make a bullet an effective hunting bullet.

1. The bullet has to have some degree of accuracy. You have to hit an animal in the vitals to kill it. So greater velocity will flatten the trajectory and make it easier to make shots at longer ranges but sometimes you loose accuracy with increased velocity. And if you figure most of your shots at game are within a certain range then "good" accuracy within that range is most important.

2. A bullet must be able to perform well inside the animal. It has to penetrate and do massive tissue damage. It is good for it to exit and leave the extra hole for blood trailing. If i had to give up MOA accuracy to use a better bullet for penetration and expansion I would.

So the "best bullet" may not be the fastest bullet or the most "hair splitting" accurate bullet or the bullet that expands the best or the bullet that penetrates the best. It has to be a combination of those factors.


A 140 grain nosler partition 7mm bullet can be a very effective killing bullet when fired from a 7mm Rem mag. or a 280 Rem. or a 7mm08 or a .284 win. or a 7X57 mauser. If it has sufficient velocity to be reasonably "flat" shooting and reasonable accuracy.

Conclusion: Bullets fired out of guns can kill game.

[Tonto]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Why? You think they might be in your home room?

I think he was just trying to say that Duffy was stating the obvious, even to a newbie.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Tonto

I think he was just trying to say that Duffy was stating the obvious, even to a newbie.

I know that. He was just being such a sarcastic twit about it I figured I'd give him a little back, given he enjoys a good insult so much.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I know that. He was just being such a sarcastic twit about it I figured I'd give him a little back, given he enjoys a good insult so much.

I guess some people consider the truth, the obvious truth, to be insulting.

[Tonto]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I know that. He was just being such a sarcastic twit about it I figured I'd give him a little back, given he enjoys a good insult so much.

I did a little search on a few of your posts, OK. And found that your becoming quite the master at being a sarcastic twit yourself

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Tonto

I did a little search on a few of your posts, OK. And found that your becoming quite the master at being a sarcastic twit yourself

Ah, but I rarely start it (might have sometime, and if I did, I was wrong). The original poster posted something he thought interesting. Our friend then basically called him and his friends children with no more knowledge than a grade 3. I guess that constitutes "the truth" in your world Tonto. . He could have simply said something like "I think that's pretty basic" or "I don't really understand the insight in that", or even "huh?". So I just had some fun with him.

Anyway, not the end of the world. Don't think either of us will lose any sleep over it.

[Tonto]

Ok, you know it's unfair to admit your wrong. That was one of the first rules I learned from a poster on here!!!

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I know that. He was just being such a sarcastic twit about it I figured I'd give him a little back, given he enjoys a good insult so much.

Just was wondering if you could point me in the right direction to some pics you have posted of all your worldly adventures and trophies so I can understand the lengend and background of OKOTOKIAN.

[Okotokian]

oops

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Tonto

Ok, you know it's unfair to admit your wrong. That was one of the first rules I learned from a poster on here!!!

You are absolutely right Tonto. Sometimes I just don't understand why people don't want to admit that a product isn't quite as good as they thought, or admit they are wrong. Afterall, It's just the internet.
I guess I got caught up in the "discussion". Sorry

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Just was wondering if you could point me in the right direction to some pics you have posted of all your worldly adventures and trophies so I can understand the lengend and background of OKOTOKIAN.

I don't think I could show you anything that would help you understand the legend of Okotokian. You just have to experience it.

But if you are suggesting that vast hunting experience is a justification for insulting those with less who ask a question or make a statement you view as elementary or basic, well I'll have to mull that one over for a while. Not sure if I agree with you and Chuck yet.

[Dean2]

Re-posted from another thread.

Forums are a place where people can post their opinions on things. The internet has allowed a far broader abiltiy to get information, both official comapny versions, and actual user input. You can bet Remington would not be publishing all of the quality problems they have been having the last two or three years. Even the recall of the 597 in 17 HMR, which has been a known problem since it came out, is the result of a lot of pressure on the net.

Some people post opinions based on real experience, these are the most helpful, but it seems silly to expect that everyone who is posting will have experience with more than one or two let alone 10 or more different instnaces of a product.

If everyone posts their honest experience, and the various experiences don't match, then the person who started the thread has a decision to make based on the preponderance of opinions, but at least they have a few different points of view.

Debating facts makes sense, the speed at which an object falls, 32 feet per second, per second, is not a matter of someones experience or conjecture. Arguing among posters when you disagree with someone else"s opinion, based on their personal experience, seems absurd. I don't buy Fords because the three I had were disapointing, one of my hunting partners loves them. We don't agrue about who bought the right vehicle, it would disrespect our individual experiences. If you mileage differs, say that, but it doesn't mean the other person didn't see what they say they did.

I think this would be a lot friendlier forum if everyone remebered this isn't personal, if I don't like the gun you shoot, you don't even know me, so why does it matter? I vote we keep it freindly and professional, and leave the board fights to other forums.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

You are absolutely right Tonto. Sometimes I just don't understand why people don't want to admit that a product isn't quite as good as they thought, or admit they are wrong. Afterall, It's just the internet.
I guess I got caught up in the "discussion". Sorry

The reasons is because to one person the product works perfect, to others its a piece of crap. Doesnt make either of them wrong. People like what they like. I argue for the gear I use and others for the gear they use makes this forum operate. If we all agreed then new products wouldnt get discovered and no good debates would be had on here. SG

[303carbine]

Originally Posted by duffy4

Was having a conversation with a couple of guys the other day about cartridges and bullets and accuracy and reloading and such.

We ended up agreeing on a number of factors that make a bullet an effective hunting bullet.

1. The bullet has to have some degree of accuracy. You have to hit an animal in the vitals to kill it. So greater velocity will flatten the trajectory and make it easier to make shots at longer ranges but sometimes you loose accuracy with increased velocity. And if you figure most of your shots at game are within a certain range then "good" accuracy within that range is most important.

2. A bullet must be able to perform well inside the animal. It has to penetrate and do massive tissue damage. It is good for it to exit and leave the extra hole for blood trailing. If i had to give up MOA accuracy to use a better bullet for penetration and expansion I would.

So the "best bullet" may not be the fastest bullet or the most "hair splitting" accurate bullet or the bullet that expands the best or the bullet that penetrates the best. It has to be a combination of those factors.


A 140 grain nosler partition 7mm bullet can be a very effective killing bullet when fired from a 7mm Rem mag. or a 280 Rem. or a 7mm08 or a .284 win. or a 7X57 mauser. If it has sufficient velocity to be reasonably "flat" shooting and reasonable accuracy.

Can't kill'em if ya don't hit'em......

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

You are absolutely right Tonto. Sometimes I just don't understand why people don't want to admit that a product isn't quite as good as they thought, or admit they are wrong. Afterall, It's just the internet.
I guess I got caught up in the "discussion". Sorry

Originally Posted by sheepguide

The reasons is because to one person the product works perfect, to others its a piece of crap. Doesnt make either of them wrong. People like what they like. I argue for the gear I use and others for the gear they use makes this forum operate. If we all agreed then new products wouldnt get discovered and no good debates would be had on here. SG

I do agree with you sheep, but I have to laugh a bit, because the reply of mine you just quoted was actually posted as an inside joke to Tonto. We will see if he comes back and recognizes it. If not I'll explain it later.

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I don't think I could show you anything that would help you understand the legend of Okotokian. You just have to experience it.

.

Having had the pleasure of experiencing it, I can attest the man is indeed a legend...

Originally Posted by sheepguide

The reasons is because to one person the product works perfect, to others its a piece of crap. Doesnt make either of them wrong. People like what they like. I argue for the gear I use and others for the gear they use makes this forum operate. If we all agreed then new products wouldnt get discovered and no good debates would be had on here. SG

I do find it interesting that some people are so passionate about what they use that they have blinders on to other, quite possibly superior products. I'd never be so closed minded as to believe that because I use it, it's the best. Sometimes it's all I can afford or other times I may just have made a bad purchase. Or, it could be that other products are equally as good. I like to remain open minded. Heck, that's how I learned about TSX bullets!

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Having had the pleasure of experiencing it, I can attest the man is indeed a legend...

Hey now... I thought the word you used was 'special'!

[Tonto]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

You are absolutely right Tonto. Sometimes I just don't understand why people don't want to admit that a product isn't quite as good as they thought, or admit they are wrong. Afterall, It's just the internet.
I guess I got caught up in the "discussion". Sorry

Geez man, don't apologize. It completely throws and disorients a guy when someone on here does that. I just don't know what to do now! It's like mental judo!

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I do find it interesting that some people are so passionate about what they use that they have blinders on to other, quite possibly superior products. I'd never be so closed minded as to believe that because I use it, it's the best. Sometimes it's all I can afford or other times I may just have made a bad purchase. Or, it could be that other products are equally as good. I like to remain open minded. Heck, that's how I learned about TSX bullets!

The biggest thing TJ is that a superior product to you may not be to others. With bullets sure a bullet will usually perform relativly the same for anyone using it but doesnt mean that its results that satisfy or work for you make the next guy as happy. Doesnt mean that people put blinders on. As far as being able to afford better, just because it costs more doesnt mean its better. The only spotting scope I ever had fog up internaly was a brand new Swarovski. We dug out and old tasco scope that had been kicking aroud and finished the hunt. Im just a guilty as you or anyone for arguing products but it all boils down to wat you like and what works for you. If your happy with a $20 box of shells use them if you wanna pay $100 a box then go ahead. Use what ever works to your own expectations not others. Who cares what some yo yo named sheepguide or sheephunter on some forum say!!

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Having had the pleasure of experiencing it, I can attest the man is indeed a legend...

Oh and I hear the odd guy say that about you and well...
Id rathere see it for my self thanx! SG

Originally Posted by sheepguide

The biggest thing TJ is that a superior product to you may not be to others. With bullets sure a bullet will usually perform relativly the same for anyone using it but doesnt mean that its results that satisfy or work for you make the next guy as happy. Doesnt mean that people put blinders on. As far as being able to afford better, just because it costs more doesnt mean its better. The only spotting scope I ever had fog up internaly was a brand new Swarovski. We dug out and old tasco scope that had been kicking aroud and finished the hunt. Im just a guilty as you or anyone for arguing products but it all boils down to wat you like and what works for you. If your happy with a $20 box of shells use them if you wanna pay $100 a box then go ahead. Use what ever works to your own expectations not others. Who cares what some yo yo named sheepguide or sheephunter on some forum say!!

I think you missed my point SG...I don't argue for the products I own. I like to offer my experience with them, not make a case for their superiority, and then be open to what people have to say about products they have experience with. Some people can have a very subjective opinion and others can't. I usually figure them out pretty quickly. I like to use this board for education, not arguing but I do get sucked into some of those too. Usually not about product superiority though...

[Timo]

What ever happened to "If it aint Scottish it's crap!" I thought that was the rule?